Who are your top three players in any sport that SHOULD NOT be in their respective HOF?

[scottcarter]

Don't want anything to be heated at all Scott. Just a discussion.

I wasn't saying mean spirited or hateful. Just passionate is what I mean as heated. In a good way. :toast:

 

[Chi_Archie]

I don't think many guys went over 4k yards a year back in those days as a QB in those days. When did they start playing 16 instead of 14 games by the way?

you can't compare stats from that era to this era

take a look at the Receiving Leaders of 1977

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/1977/receiving.htm

[h=2]Receiving[/h]ProBowl(*), 1st-team All-Pro(+),<form class="rate_switch" name="form_sortable" id="fs_receiving" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; display: inline;"> <input type="checkbox" name="hide_non_quals" value="1" checked="" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px;"> Hide non-qualifiers for rate stats</form> · Glossary · SHARE · Embed · CSV · PRE · LINK · ?

Rk		Tm	Age	G	GS	Rec	Yds	Y/R	TD	Lng	R/G	Y/G	Fmb
1	Lydell Mitchell*	BAL	28	14	14	71	620	8.7	4	38	5.1	44.3	5
2	Bob Chandler	BUF	28	14	0	60	745	12.4	4	31	4.3	53.2	0
3	Clark Gaines	NYJ	23	14	13	55	469	8.5	1	31	3.9	33.5	3
4	Nat Moore*+	MIA	26	14	14	52	765	14.7	12	73	3.7	54.6	0
5	Don McCauley	BAL	28	14	0	51	495	9.7	2	34	3.6	35.4	2
6	Ahmad Rashad	MIN	28	14	14	51	681	13.4	2	48	3.6	48.6	2
7	James Scott	CHI	25	14	14	50	809	16.2	3	72	3.6	57.8	1
8	Lynn Swann*	PIT	25	14	14	50	789	15.8	7	46	3.6	56.4	1
9	Dave Casper*+	OAK	26	14	14	48	584	12.2	6	27	3.4	41.7	1
10	Harold Jackson*	RAM	31	14	14	48	666	13.9	6	58	3.4	47.6	0
11	Drew Pearson*+	DAL	26	14	0	48	870	18.1	2	67	3.4	62.1	0
12	Walter White	KAN	26	13	12	48	674	14.0	5	48	3.7	51.8	1
13	Rickey Young	SDG	24	14	14	48	423	8.8	0	28	3.4	30.2	4
14	Harold Carmichael	PHI	28	14	14	46	665	14.5	7	50	3.3	47.5	0
15	Preston Pearson	DAL	32	14	10	46	535	11.6	4	36	3.3	38.2	1
16	John Stallworth	PIT	25	14	14	44	784	17.8	7	49	3.1	56.0	1

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[Enfuego]

I don't think many guys went over 4k yards a year back in those days as a QB in those days. When did they start playing 16 instead of 14 games by the way?

you can't compare stats from that era to this era

take a look at the Receiving Leaders of 1977

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/1977/receiving.htm

Receiving

ProBowl(*), 1st-team All-Pro(+),<form class="rate_switch" name="form_sortable" id="fs_receiving" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; display: inline;"> <input name="hide_non_quals" value="1" checked="" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px;" type="checkbox"> Hide non-qualifiers for rate stats</form> · Glossary · SHARE · Embed · CSV · PRE · LINK · ?

Rk		Tm	Age	G	GS	Rec	Yds	Y/R	TD	Lng	R/G	Y/G	Fmb
1	Lydell Mitchell*	BAL	28	14	14	71	620	8.7	4	38	5.1	44.3	5
2	Bob Chandler	BUF	28	14	0	60	745	12.4	4	31	4.3	53.2	0
3	Clark Gaines	NYJ	23	14	13	55	469	8.5	1	31	3.9	33.5	3
4	Nat Moore*+	MIA	26	14	14	52	765	14.7	12	73	3.7	54.6	0
5	Don McCauley	BAL	28	14	0	51	495	9.7	2	34	3.6	35.4	2
6	Ahmad Rashad	MIN	28	14	14	51	681	13.4	2	48	3.6	48.6	2
7	James Scott	CHI	25	14	14	50	809	16.2	3	72	3.6	57.8	1
8	Lynn Swann*	PIT	25	14	14	50	789	15.8	7	46	3.6	56.4	1
9	Dave Casper*+	OAK	26	14	14	48	584	12.2	6	27	3.4	41.7	1
10	Harold Jackson*	RAM	31	14	14	48	666	13.9	6	58	3.4	47.6	0
11	Drew Pearson*+	DAL	26	14	0	48	870	18.1	2	67	3.4	62.1	0
12	Walter White	KAN	26	13	12	48	674	14.0	5	48	3.7	51.8	1
13	Rickey Young	SDG	24	14	14	48	423	8.8	0	28	3.4	30.2	4
14	Harold Carmichael	PHI	28	14	14	46	665	14.5	7	50	3.3	47.5	0
15	Preston Pearson	DAL	32	14	10	46	535	11.6	4	36	3.3	38.2	1
16	John Stallworth	PIT	25	14	14	44	784	17.8	7	49	3.1	56.0	1

<tbody>
</tbody>

4,000 yards? I'm just talking 3,000.

 

[REDEYE]

I know alot of people will disagree with this, but IMO Dan Marino is way overrated..Not saying he wasn't good.. But he should never have been labeled as a superstar..This guy had great #'s but in the clutch he threw away alot of critical games...always blamed everyone else too.. He's never been in my top 15 QB's

 

[Chi_Archie]

I guess 3k was alot back then? Nowadays we get a handful of 5k guys.

but it was different back then




1977 NFL Passing

Previous Season / Next Season
Passing

ProBowl(*), 1st-team All-Pro(+),<form class="rate_switch" name="form_sortable" id="fs_passing" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; display: inline;"> <input type="checkbox" name="hide_non_quals" value="1" checked="" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px;"> Hide non-qualifiers for rate stats</form> · Glossary · SHARE · Embed · CSV · PRE · LINK · ?

Rk		Tm	Age	G	GS	QBrec	Cmp	Att	Cmp%	Yds	TD	TD%	Int	Int%	Lng	Y/A	AY/A	Y/C	Y/G	Rate	Sk	Yds	NY/A	ANY/A	Sk%	4QC	GWD
1	Joe Ferguson	BUF	27	14	14	3-11-0	221	457	48.4	2803	12	2.6	24	5.3	42	6.1	4.3	12.7	200.2	54.8	36	273	5.13	3.43	7.3	1	1
2	Bert Jones	BAL	26	14	14	10-4-0	224	393	57.0	2686	17	4.3	11	2.8	78	6.8	6.4	12.0	191.9	80.8	26	221	5.88	5.51	6.2	1	2
3	Roger Staubach*	DAL	35	14	14	12-2-0	210	361	58.2	2620	18	5.0	9	2.5	67	7.3	7.1	12.5	187.1	87.0	30	219	6.14	6.03	7.7	2	3
4	Jim Hart*	STL	33	14	14	7-7-0	186	355	52.4	2542	13	3.7	20	5.6	69	7.2	5.4	13.7	181.6	64.3	13	89	6.67	4.93	3.5	2	2
5	Ron Jaworski	PHI	26	14	14	5-9-0	166	346	48.0	2183	18	5.2	21	6.1	55	6.3	4.6	13.2	155.9	60.4	47	342	4.68	3.20	12.0	1	1
6	Ken Anderson	CIN	28	14	13	7-6-0	166	323	51.4	2145	11	3.4	11	3.4	94	6.6	5.8	12.9	153.2	69.7	28	197	5.55	4.77	8.0	1	2
7	Dan Pastorini	HOU	28	14	12	8-4-0	169	319	53.0	1987	13	4.1	18	5.6	85	6.2	4.5	11.8	141.9	62.3	20	198	5.28	3.65	5.9	0	0
8	Terry Bradshaw	PIT	29	14	14	9-5-0	162	314	51.6	2523	17	5.4	19	6.1	65	8.0	6.4	15.6	180.2	71.4	26	235	6.73	5.21	7.6	0	1
9	Bob Griese*+	MIA	32	14	14	10-4-0	180	307	58.6	2252	22	7.2	13	4.2	73	7.3	6.9	12.5	160.9	87.8	36	303	5.68	5.26	10.5
10	Steve Grogan	NWE	24	14	14	9-5-0	160	305	52.5	2162	17	5.6	21	6.9	68	7.1	5.1	13.5	154.4	65.2	14	155	6.29	4.39	4.4	2	2
11	Ken Stabler*	OAK	32	13	13	10-3-0	169	294	57.5	2176	20	6.8	20	6.8	44	7.4	5.7	12.9	167.4	75.2	16	141	6.56	4.95	5.2	2	2
12	Bob Avellini	CHI	24	14	14	9-5-0	154	293	52.6	2004	11	3.8	18	6.1	75	6.8	4.8	13.0	143.1	61.3	23	200	5.71	3.84	7.3	3	4
13	Mike Livingston	KAN	32	13	11	1-10-0	143	282	50.7	1823	9	3.2	15	5.3	49	6.5	4.7	12.7	140.2	59.8	30	285	4.93	3.34	9.6
14	Richard Todd	NYJ	24	12	11	3-8-0	133	265	50.2	1863	11	4.2	17	6.4	87	7.0	5.0	14.0	155.3	60.3	24	203	5.74	3.86	8.3	1	3
15	Fran Tarkenton	MIN	37	9	9	6-3-0	155	258	60.1	1734	9	3.5	14	5.4	59	6.7	5.0	11.2	192.7	69.2	22	232	5.36	3.76	7.9	1	2

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</tbody>

 

[Enfuego]

I guess 3k was alot back then? Nowadays we get a handful of 5k guys.

but it was different back then




1977 NFL Passing

Previous Season / Next Season
Passing

ProBowl(*), 1st-team All-Pro(+),<form class="rate_switch" name="form_sortable" id="fs_passing" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; display: inline;"> <input name="hide_non_quals" value="1" checked="" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px;" type="checkbox"> Hide non-qualifiers for rate stats</form> · Glossary · SHARE · Embed · CSV · PRE · LINK · ?

Rk		Tm	Age	G	GS	QBrec	Cmp	Att	Cmp%	Yds	TD	TD%	Int	Int%	Lng	Y/A	AY/A	Y/C	Y/G	Rate	Sk	Yds	NY/A	ANY/A	Sk%	4QC	GWD
1	Joe Ferguson	BUF	27	14	14	3-11-0	221	457	48.4	2803	12	2.6	24	5.3	42	6.1	4.3	12.7	200.2	54.8	36	273	5.13	3.43	7.3	1	1
2	Bert Jones	BAL	26	14	14	10-4-0	224	393	57.0	2686	17	4.3	11	2.8	78	6.8	6.4	12.0	191.9	80.8	26	221	5.88	5.51	6.2	1	2
3	Roger Staubach*	DAL	35	14	14	12-2-0	210	361	58.2	2620	18	5.0	9	2.5	67	7.3	7.1	12.5	187.1	87.0	30	219	6.14	6.03	7.7	2	3
4	Jim Hart*	STL	33	14	14	7-7-0	186	355	52.4	2542	13	3.7	20	5.6	69	7.2	5.4	13.7	181.6	64.3	13	89	6.67	4.93	3.5	2	2
5	Ron Jaworski	PHI	26	14	14	5-9-0	166	346	48.0	2183	18	5.2	21	6.1	55	6.3	4.6	13.2	155.9	60.4	47	342	4.68	3.20	12.0	1	1
6	Ken Anderson	CIN	28	14	13	7-6-0	166	323	51.4	2145	11	3.4	11	3.4	94	6.6	5.8	12.9	153.2	69.7	28	197	5.55	4.77	8.0	1	2
7	Dan Pastorini	HOU	28	14	12	8-4-0	169	319	53.0	1987	13	4.1	18	5.6	85	6.2	4.5	11.8	141.9	62.3	20	198	5.28	3.65	5.9	0	0
8	Terry Bradshaw	PIT	29	14	14	9-5-0	162	314	51.6	2523	17	5.4	19	6.1	65	8.0	6.4	15.6	180.2	71.4	26	235	6.73	5.21	7.6	0	1
9	Bob Griese*+	MIA	32	14	14	10-4-0	180	307	58.6	2252	22	7.2	13	4.2	73	7.3	6.9	12.5	160.9	87.8	36	303	5.68	5.26	10.5
10	Steve Grogan	NWE	24	14	14	9-5-0	160	305	52.5	2162	17	5.6	21	6.9	68	7.1	5.1	13.5	154.4	65.2	14	155	6.29	4.39	4.4	2	2
11	Ken Stabler*	OAK	32	13	13	10-3-0	169	294	57.5	2176	20	6.8	20	6.8	44	7.4	5.7	12.9	167.4	75.2	16	141	6.56	4.95	5.2	2	2
12	Bob Avellini	CHI	24	14	14	9-5-0	154	293	52.6	2004	11	3.8	18	6.1	75	6.8	4.8	13.0	143.1	61.3	23	200	5.71	3.84	7.3	3	4
13	Mike Livingston	KAN	32	13	11	1-10-0	143	282	50.7	1823	9	3.2	15	5.3	49	6.5	4.7	12.7	140.2	59.8	30	285	4.93	3.34	9.6
14	Richard Todd	NYJ	24	12	11	3-8-0	133	265	50.2	1863	11	4.2	17	6.4	87	7.0	5.0	14.0	155.3	60.3	24	203	5.74	3.86	8.3	1	3
15	Fran Tarkenton	MIN	37	9	9	6-3-0	155	258	60.1	1734	9	3.5	14	5.4	59	6.7	5.0	11.2	192.7	69.2	22	232	5.36	3.76	7.9	1	2

<tbody>
</tbody>

You make some good arguments Chi.

 

[VIEJODINOSAUR]

I know alot of people will disagree with this, but IMO Dan Marino is way overrated..Not saying he wasn't good.. But he should never have been labeled as a superstar..This guy had great #'s but in the clutch he threw away alot of critical games...always blamed everyone else too.. He's never been in my top 15 QB's

I disagree....sure would like to see the other 14.....Marino is in my top ten....

 

[loomis41973]

I know alot of people will disagree with this, but IMO Dan Marino is way overrated..Not saying he wasn't good.. But he should never have been labeled as a superstar..This guy had great #'s but in the clutch he threw away alot of critical games...always blamed everyone else too.. He's never been in my top 15 QB's

Overrated for sure...not to mention a choke artist.

Might be a top 15, but barely.

 

[scottcarter]

Overrated for sure...not to mention a choke artist.

Might be a top 15, but barely.

 

[REDEYE]

I disagree....sure would like to see the other 14.....Marino is in my top ten....

without even going into the old timers, I would put all of these QB's ahead of Marino, no particular order

Elway
Montana
Young
Favre
Brady
Manning
Manning
Bradhsaw
Starr
Akimon
Staubach
Kelly
Unitus
Rodgers
Warner

There's your 14 and am sure I could add guys like Fouts, Van Brocklin, couple of others

 

[Chi_Archie]

Marino was a 9 time pro bowler

not too many have done that

 

[loomis41973]

Marino was a 9 time pro bowler

not too many have done that

1 time MVP
Zero rings
big throwing yards...poor leader

 

[scottcarter]

without even going into the old timers, I would put all of these QB's ahead of Marino, no particular order

Elway
Montana
Young
Favre
Brady
Manning
Manning
Bradhsaw
Starr
Akimon
Staubach
Kelly
Unitus
Rodgers
Warner

There's your 14 and am sure I could add guys like Fouts, Van Brocklin, couple of others

 

[REDEYE]

Marino was a 9 time pro bowler

not too many have done that

they pick 3 QB's off of each conference... outside of Kelly, who are you going to pick each year ? 9 Pro Bowls means nothing to me

 

[REDEYE]

without even going into the old timers, I would put all of these QB's ahead of Marino, no particular order

Elway
Montana
Young
Favre
Brady
Manning
Manning
Bradhsaw
Starr
Akimon
Staubach
Kelly
Unitus
Rodgers
Warner

There's your 14 and am sure I could add guys like Fouts, Van Brocklin, couple of others

Throw in Brees over Marino too

 

[scottcarter]

Throw in Brees over Marino too

 

[studmlb55]

 

[RunLeeRun]

without even going into the old timers, I would put all of these QB's ahead of Marino, no particular order

Elway
Montana
Young
Favre
Brady
Manning
Manning
Bradhsaw
Starr
Akimon
Staubach
Kelly
Unitus
Rodgers
Warner

There's your 14 and am sure I could add guys like Fouts, Van Brocklin, couple of others

Now take that list and look at their defenses. I´´ bet Marino wins hands down for the worst career defense on his teams. He had about 2 good defenses, both in his first two years and they went to the Superbowl in year two. After that they dove off the cliff. You put any of those QB´s in Miami under the same circumstances and they get 1 shot to win it. Marino missed his one shot.

 

[scottcarter]

Now take that list and look at their defenses. I´´ bet Marino wins hands down for the worst career defense on his teams. He had about 2 good defenses, both in his first two years and they went to the Superbowl in year two. After that they dove off the cliff. You put any of those QB´s in Miami under the same circumstances and they get 1 shot to win it. Marino missed his one shot.

there ya go!

 

[REDEYE]

Now take that list and look at their defenses. I´´ bet Marino wins hands down for the worst career defense on his teams. He had about 2 good defenses, both in his first two years and they went to the Superbowl in year two. After that they dove off the cliff. You put any of those QB´s in Miami under the same circumstances and they get 1 shot to win it. Marino missed his one shot.

I will admit I don't remember much about Miami's defensive teams..what I do remember is all of the picks in clutch situations..