Dr. Bruce Ivins, anthrax scientist was murdered by The CIA

[Willie99]

MS, your motive would make more sense to me if the killing happened five or six years ago.

But why kill the guy seven years later? after everything pretty much quieted down? why bring it back to the surface? and why would they use a method of suicide that would raise questions? why not have it come from an Iraqi scientist working for Saddam that gained access to the stuff?

 

[MichaelScott]

Why would Dr. Bruce Ivins mail out his own sample of anthrax?

Today's broadcast of Democracy Now devoted about 21 minutes to this story, including interviews with a colleague and a reporter whose followed the anthrax case from the beginning.

The video of the broadcast is on their site and will be on the main page until the next show tommorow. After that I think it gets archived somewhere on the site. The story can be seen from about the 12:00 minute mark until about the 35:00 minute mark. Once it loads (pretty quick), anyone can jump to the 12 minute mark.

http://www.democracynow.org/

Some great points mentioned in this video. The scientist colleague of Dr. Ivins mentions, that access was easy to each others samples. And the most crucial comments she (Dr. Meryl Nass) made was, "If you were going to pin the crime on someone else, would you use your own sample of anthrax?" clearly, why would Dr. Bruce Ivins, a scientist, be so stupid to send his own strain of anthrax that could be traced back to him? The sample was stolen from Dr. Bruce Ivins, probably after hours, by a CIA scientist/agent. This way the evidence would not point back to The CIA. Then you off Bruce Ivins and the case gets closed forever. The CIA probably already expunged all the classified documents on this operation, so it is pointless to have a commission, but we should still call for a commission.


If Dr. Bruce Ivins was supposedly, according to media reports, smart enough to get a post office box in an "assumed name" to "receive porno magazine" then why would he be dumb enough to use his own sample of anthrax?

Seriously ponder that fo a minute.

 

[MichaelScott]

MS, your motive would make more sense to me if the killing happened five or six years ago.

But why kill the guy seven years later? after everything pretty much quieted down? why bring it back to the surface? and why would they use a method of suicide that would raise questions? why not have it come from an Iraqi scientist working for Saddam that gained access to the stuff?

Because The FBI got too close to the case. If the FBI wasn't closing in on Ivins, who could have blown the lid off on The CIA, The CIA wouldn't have whacked him. But because the anthrax letters were tested and traced back to Ivins samples, the CIA knew that he would tell The FBI that he was framed and blow the whole lid off on this. If the CIA could kill Ivins "just in the nick of time before the arrest" the FBI looks like heroes because they found "the anthrax killer" and the CIA has covered up a domestic homicide.

Simple. Think it out Willie. You almost understand what I am saying. It is a really simple CIA covert operation. It would take no more than 3-4 guys to complete this mission.

 

[Willie99]

If this strain could be so easily traced back to him, why did it take seven years? Again, sounds good, doesn't make sense. You see, the technology to trace it back to him didn't exist until seven years later.

 

[Willie99]

MS, the CIA knocking him off is plausible, just not likely. You choose to believe your point of view and leap to some conclusions. Most of the arguments in this thread are accusations, not facts.

 

[MichaelScott]

If this strain could be so easily traced back to him, why did it take seven years? Again, sounds good, doesn't make sense. You see, the technology to trace it back to him didn't exist until seven years later.

Because in order to have an arrest you need more than one piece of physical evidence. The FBI was trying to find a motive and a means of why and how some scientist could do this. They still don't believe Ivins was the guy who did this in my opinion. But they don't want to look like the retards they are, when they can look like national heroes.

If it takes 7 years to find a guy, obviously there is no case. Dr. Bruce Ivins COULD NOT and DID NOT do this. The FBI knew this, but they were hoping one of the scientists would crack and give up, so that they could stop baby sitting his house. Every pigs dream is to "make the arrest" not baby sit and survey house.

All The FBI knew was that the anthrax came from his sample in the lab. Multiple people had access to other peoples samples, and Dr. Bruce Ivins was an outspoken critic about the lax security measures within the facility.

What the FBI doesn't know and won't pursue because they are heroes right know, is that Dr. Bruce Ivins had his samples stolen by a CIA Scientist/Agent. Many say that is Dr. Phillip Zack, others argue someone else. Who it is, I don't care too much. I want justice for Dr. Bruce Ivins and his family. I want justice for the innocent anthrax voctims, and I want the CIA to be investigated as well as their UNLIMITED POWERS to be taken away. There is no accountability of what the CIA agents can do both within and outside of The United States.

 

[Willie99]

"If it takes seven years, there is no case", how do you arrive at that conclusion?

It's very possible new technology enabled them to trace this strain which they couldn't do before.

Are you a new world order believer?

 

[MichaelScott]

If this strain could be so easily traced back to him, why did it take seven years? Again, sounds good, doesn't make sense. You see, the technology to trace it back to him didn't exist until seven years later.

The technology the FBI had. What the FBI has and what the CIA has are two separate this. The CIA is always years ahead of The FBI. Remember my earlier post..

"Ace beats King, King beats Queen. The CIA is the ace, The FBI is the King." Teh CIA budget is virtually unaccounted for. Money is laundered and hidden from government accountability for a reason. If the American people were to know the shit going on, they would not be able to handle it.

Our State Secrets need to be kept secret. But the mailing of anthrax letters to US Citizens crossed the line of National Security and was uncalled for.

 

[MichaelScott]

"If it takes seven years, there is no case", how do you arrive at that conclusion?

It's very possible new technology enabled them to trace this strain which they couldn't do before.

Are you a new world order believer?

Steven Hatfill was investigated for only four (4) years. Did they have a case? Nope, it cost tax payers like you and me $5.8M because there was no case. Just like Dr. Bruce Ivins. There is no case Willie. It is all propaganda.

I don't want to get off topic. I don't buy into many conspiracy theories. I believe secretive activities by our government do need to be done to an extent. But when people die domestically and our own CIA is responsible for a terror act mailing anthrax, I draw the line and will fight. I don't care about New World Orders, or 9/11 Conspiracies, it is a waste of time for me. This topic, is what I care about.

 

[MichaelScott]

MS, the CIA knocking him off is plausible, just not likely. You choose to believe your point of view and leap to some conclusions. Most of the arguments in this thread are accusations, not facts.

They are accusations, but backed up by facts and historical similarities. Furthermore, the inconsistencies only strengthen the argument that the CIA was "more likely" to mail the anthrax letters out than a nerdy Army scientist. Like I said earlier, I doubt anything will become of this. And even if a commission were to come about, just like the Rockefeller Commission in 1975, The CIA will be found to have expunged of all the documents pertaining to this covert mission.

 

[MichaelScott]

Steven Hatfill Incident

Here Willie, to put it in perspective of "how dumb" the FBI agents are..

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steven_Hatfill

In an embarrassing incident, FBI agents trailing Hatfill in a motor vehicle ran over his foot when he attempted to approach them in May 2003. Police responding to the incident did not cite the driver, but issued Hatfill a citation for "walking to create a hazard." <sup id="cite_ref-10" class="reference">[11]</sup> He and his attorneys fought the ticket, but a hearing officer upheld the ticket and ordered Hatfill to pay the requisite $5 fine. <sup id="cite_ref-11" class="reference">[12]

</sup>

 

[TotalRecall]

Ivins was not just an expert im anthrax - he was also quite knowlegble about the efficacy of the Cipro and Tamilfu vaccines which everybody Cheney- Rummy- Mccain (throough his wife) and other usual suspects in this league of corruption were to get rich on with the mandatory injections of soldiers and the millions of voluntary ones they had hoped for. I cant remember the source but in my reasearch travels I came across a supposed quote from Ivins that didnt exactly tow the party line. In fact he basically called it SHIT- meaning anthrax poisoning is 95% lethal with or without these antibotics which were being played up as wonderdrugs (the horrible side effects and risk of death never admitted). I believe he brought these concerns to higher ups who then reported his remarks to their higher ups. For that he was put on a watch list and then when the time was right was put on the hit list as he would serve the twofold purpose of attempting to give the case closure and continue the obfuscation of the entire case by redirecting the investigation in the general direction of ABZ- anyone but Zack- who got away with theft of not just anthrax but the ebola and hanta virus as well. He was never questioned about late night illegal entrance and his various incriminating activities during his breach of Level 4 at Ft Deitrich. Never given a lie detector test. Nothing.

What that tells you is this was as much as a Mossad operation as CIA. Both are complicit for covering each others asses dont you think. Where was Mueller? And Homeland security. With double agent Chertoff in charge there would be no investigation of Zack and to this day its still airtight at both ends of the controlled MSM.

To KO "How dare you sir to pretend to be conducting an investigative interview with a savvy investigative journalist like Posner- and conviently avoid mentioning this surruptious Zack even exists!"

Shame on you sir! KO is controlled like Oreilly is but is better at pretending he isnt- except in this blatant case of not acknologing the elephant it the room.

Yeah Olberman did a puff piece yesterday on the case bringing in the usually reliable and gutsy Gerald Posner- who himself was unable to even speak his name. I mean- the guy was caught on surveillance doing this stuff AFTER he had been let go for being the ringleader of the racist abuse and later after 9/11 the finger pointing for the anthrax killer using the usual scapegoat - the Arab Egyptian Assaad.


I would bet all the tea in China Zack is your man Michael.

 

[Willie99]

Steven Hatfill was investigated for only four (4) years. Did they have a case? Nope, it cost tax payers like you and me $5.8M because there was no case. Just like Dr. Bruce Ivins. There is no case Willie. It is all propaganda.

I don't want to get off topic. I don't buy into many conspiracy theories. I believe secretive activities by our government do need to be done to an extent. But when people die domestically and our own CIA is responsible for a terror act mailing anthrax, I draw the line and will fight. I don't care about New World Orders, or 9/11 Conspiracies, it is a waste of time for me. This topic, is what I care about.

I was actually staying on topic with my question. You see, if you were a New World Order type of guy, then you would believe that the CIA and the FBI are on the same team, thus mitigating your argument.

Obviously, that argument doesn't work against you.

 

[MichaelScott]

I would bet all the tea in China Zack is your man Michael.

TotalRecall,

Originally I knew nothing about Zack. I read up on him in an internet post and some other websites. Then went to the Wikipedia Page. If it wasn't for Wikiscanner, The CIA through there own IP Addresses or a covert proxy server, could have changed the article so we would never be on to this guy "Dr. Phillip Zack". I don't want to chase one guy, I am after a general suspect, The CIA. They have far too long since the disbanding of The OSS, had access and control to disrupt the freedoms and lives of many Americans domestically. It is time for this to stop.

I will not comment on the Mossad. They scare the shit out of me and that is a tree I do not want to piss on. I will however, accept any content you wish to provide in this thread on them if you chose to, as I see it relevant to the topic at hand.

You are probably right they are connected with the CIA in some fashion or another in this case. The old saying, An enemy of my enemy is my friend. I just want the CIA going down for this. Zack is probably the agent/scientist who stole Dr. Bruce Ivins sample. As in past cases it is well known that scientists at Ft. Detrick are/were CIA agents as well. Dr. Frank Olson was one of those CIA Agents/Scientists. His family thought he was just a scientist.

The problem with Zack is, What does he look like? I think we might hit roadblocks that will never solve this case.

Media (CNN) is picking up "a little" on this. So CIA info warfare technicians will be working around the clock spreading as much propaganda and throwing "cookies" to the news agencies.


Dr. Frank Olson "Suicide Revealed" June 1975

 

[MichaelScott]

I was actually staying on topic with my question. You see, if you were a New World Order type of guy, then you would believe that the CIA and the FBI are on the same team, thus mitigating your argument.

Obviously, that argument doesn't work against you.

No, I don't believe The CIA and FBI are on the same team. The IQ of CIA agents is much higher than FBI agents. FBI agents are flunkies, like the high school snitch who rats on you for smoking in the men's restroom. The CIA are the guys who methodically figure out things. All possible vantage points.

In New World Order, I thought you were referring to the theory of "The Secret Society" that expands across the globe, that families will always have power no matter what countries thy are in e.g Rockefeller, Bush, Scott, etc.

I don't believe in secret societies that span the world. In one quick snap, there can be a power vacuum and the next in line takes the reigns.

 

[MichaelScott]

Willie,

Here is why I say "The FBI has no Case". And "how dumb they are". They sent the letters the guy who supposedly sent out these letters? That is why Ivins was scared, he knew he was framed. Wouldn't you shit you pants if evidence was sent for you to analyze, and you realized it was your own sample of anthrax?!

Source: http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1829495,00.html?cnn=yes

"The FBI itself sent the anthrax letters to Ivins and his colleagues at the biodefense lab for analysis "almost immediately" following the attacks in 2001, confirms Caree Vander-Linden, a spokesperson for the U.S. Army Medical Research Institute of Infectious Diseases, where Ivins worked."

 

[MichaelScott]

More on how incompetent the FBi is...

"The FBI does a marvelous job with guns and bombs, but anthrax is extremely difficult."

Source: http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1829495,00.html?cnn=yes

 

[tiznow]

willie shit like this has happened throughout the history of man and governments

it has been well documented and proved to have happened all the time in many places around the globe

not really sure why americans have this feeling that oh it can't happen here this is america, we are immune to all this stuff....its that type of thinking that actually leads to this shit happening cause there aren't skeptics out there putting pressure on them, wanting to know the facts regarding shady cases like this that don't add up....regardless if there is no wrongdoing or not......

history tends to repeat itself that's just how the history of man goes

 

[eek.]

oops. wrong thread

 

[MichaelScott]

willie shit like this has happened throughout the history of man and governments

it has been well documented and proved to have happened all the time in many places around the globe

not really sure why americans have this feeling that oh it can't happen here this is america, we are immune to all this stuff....its that type of thinking that actually leads to this shit happening cause there aren't skeptics out there putting pressure on them....regardless if there is no wrongdoing or not......

history tends to repeat itself that's just how the history of man goes

Tiz,

That is all I am trying to convey. I can only lead the horses to water, but I can' make them drink. And this water is VERY HARD for many Americans to swallow.

History repeats itself indeed, usually it branches off into more perfected versions. for example, the wheel. It started out solid, then when added spokes to make it lighter, then we added tires, etc.

Governments killing there own people is nothing new. But governments killing people to help convince the public to give up their constitutional rights and to bring Americans and Politicians to support the call for war, is a completely new ball game. A hybrid version of history repeating itself, if you will.

Glad to see at least you can believe my case for argument. I have provide a tin of links and sources. The burden of proof is in The CIA that they did not do this, not Dr. Bruce Ivins.


This is why America has become what it is as of today, economy, unemployment, war, energy instability, etc because we have become complacent and put faith in our government, rather than hold them accountable.

Sorry, I went off topic. The point is, Dr. Bruce Ivins did not mail out the anthrax letters, it was The CIA. Bruce Ivins was murdered by The CIA to be the "fall guy" in order to silence the covert CIA operation.