OT - The end of the United States

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UF. Champion U.
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Every great "empire" in history has fallen. Every single one of them. The Romans, the Germans, whatever. I'm sure they never imagined an end to it all. Why is the US any different? Probably a politics forum deal, but I'm asking more of a general question here:

Who is the next great empire civilization? And how long before the United States falls, if ever?

My Line:

China +120 (huge country, w/ huge population, huge army, just waiting for the right time)
Islamic, Middle Eastern Coalition +350
Russia +750
Canada +25,000
Costa Rica +30,000
Field + 2,000


United States Falls:
Over 300 Years -120
Under 300 Years +110


Sorry if you arent alive to collect on these futures bets.

Input???
 

Rx. Junior
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you got a line on india? i'll max bet it.


edit: just saw the field at +2000 so i figure india falls in that category. i'll take that for the max.
 

UF. Champion U.
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good one...i guess that would fall under the Field bet.

Let's go

India +850


over/under plays on USlasting dominance?

don't think it will be our lifetime, but i think our great grandchildren may start to see a balance of power

unless you are oldmanted, then maybe your great great great grandchildren
 

Rx. Junior
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ever read the book "The world is flat"?

I didn't. but my pop has and was telling me about it. he said there is a chapter in there that basicly talks about how in 50 years unless kids in the US start studying India and China are gonna dominate the US in all forms of math and science and destroy us in the creation of new technology.
 

Last night I drank enough to kill a small Asian fa
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Oh man, this should be fun to debate. I would put my life, my car, my house, everything on the UNDER 300 years before the US falls. Honestly, I think another country or group of countries pulls even with us within the next 50 years.

The thing with the United States is that most of the world has already turned on them and it shouldn't be long before they fall. What people also don't realize is that one of our main power bases is evaporating right in front of our eyes. Criticize him all you want, but Chavez is using his oil revenues smarter than any of the Middle East countries ever will. Chavez is using that oil money to support leftist movements around Latin America. This hurts the US because for over 200 years we have exploited Latin America for our economic gain whenever possible. Look at NAFTA, sure we lost some jobs but they were crap jobs that few Americans really wanted. Yet from Mexico we got to create a bunch of white collar jobs in Mexico and America from the maquiladoras and other industries. We also get food cheaper from them while keeping the tariffs up in agriculture where they have an advantage against us. Also, we are now able to sell the new corn and potato seeds to the indigenous farmers and make a KILLING.

However, Chavez is trying to put a stop to this and so far he has met with a good amount of success. Rather than just relying on the US, in this era of globalization Chavez has diversified his economy and has happily invited over Russian, Chinese, and Indian investors. This diversification allows Venezuela not to be at the beck and call of the United States. I will admit, I was skeptical at first, and I still expect to hear Chavez have a "heart attack" in the near future followed by a conspicuous death of Morales in Bolivia a few months later as well. However, his reforms have had some success. He is trying to create in Latin America a system somewhat similar to the EU. If he is successful in this, the US could be in a LOT of trouble economically. This is because the US's most reliable partners are Mexico, Central America, and Canada. Canada and Mexico are the only ones with a halfway decent world economy of all of these.

The US also has to worry about a terror threat that no other empire has had to worry about. Terrorism will surely strike again on US soil. The US has way too many problems to last forover 300 years.

In regards for who will be the next empire, I would not go with China. A huge population yes, but there are better countries to look at. I would go with either India or the EU bloc (providing they stop the conflicting processes of integration and separation)
 

UF. Champion U.
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i believe it...

"out source it to india", "outsource it to india" "outsource it to india"

on top of them winning the god damn spelling bee every year (LOL), they are learning the behind the scenes of how we run business in america. customer service projects whatever. their people are getting jobs, they are growing etc. they may be smartest, but they dont have the population or army like China.

China would probably kick our ass tomorrow in a war. And they are getting smarter.

i'd like to read that book.
 

Last night I drank enough to kill a small Asian fa
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The World is Flat is a good read and there is a lot of good points in it. However, the global economy is also separating as we speak. There are separatist movements all over the world, Ivory Coast, Basque, Catalonia, Andalucia, South Ossentia, etc, etc.
 

sd2

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:dancefool US under 300.

Under 100 really.

US already in decline, has been for several decades. Wars against the national interest, a weird president with a strange heretical religion, a polyglot population held together only by money lust, art that glorifies death & ugliness, the beat goes on. Hello Rome, and Nero approaches.

By 2100 the Chinese flag waves from White House roof.

This did belong in the political board, but since you did it here and it must be slow Monday, I'll post my own future bet -- on departure from Iraq.
 

Last night I drank enough to kill a small Asian fa
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You want some dark horse bets as well, how about Russia and South Africa? Russia is finally learning that a US/European style democracy cannot work over such a vast land encompassing many different nations. Putin, for all his criticism, is the smartest leader in the world today. He has done an outstanding job in getting back a lot of the power the government lost after the overthrow of Communism and the incredibly weak Yeltsin presidency. Russia has always been rich in natural resources and the fact that they make $500 million a day from oil sales gives them a lot of capital to play around with.

South Africa is far greater of a longshot, however if they can get a good government they can use their land for huge economic advantage. South Africa is the richest country resource-wise in the world per square mile and it is not even close. Diamonds, gold, uranium, virtually every profitable resource can be found somewhere in South Africa.
 

Rx. Junior
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HinesWard86 said:
You want some dark horse bets as well, how about Russia and South Africa? Russia is finally learning that a US/European style democracy cannot work over such a vast land encompassing many different nations. Putin, for all his criticism, is the smartest leader in the world today. He has done an outstanding job in getting back a lot of the power the government lost after the overthrow of Communism and the incredibly weak Yeltsin presidency. Russia has always been rich in natural resources and the fact that they make $500 million a day from oil sales gives them a lot of capital to play around with.

South Africa is far greater of a longshot, however if they can get a good government they can use their land for huge economic advantage. South Africa is the richest country resource-wise in the world per square mile and it is not even close. Diamonds, gold, uranium, virtually every profitable resource can be found somewhere in South Africa.

Russia is a possibility.

South Africa...no chance
 

Last night I drank enough to kill a small Asian fa
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South Africa is a longshot but there is definitely a chance. Resources make the world go round and South Africa is chock full of them. Look at Chile for example, they now have the 4th largest economy in the world and the enviable problem of a surplus of money flooding into their country. The resources that China and others are buying like crazy has made their economy boom.

Also, there is another interesting theory. The Pacific Rim theory. The US's strongest economic hold (Silicon Valley), Chile, the Asian Tigers, China, Japan, Russia, all line the Pacific Rim. Whereas just 100 years ago it was the Atlantic Rim countries having the greatest power, the balance of power might have switched to the Pacific.
 

Respect My Steez
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300 years is a long time socially speaking. Just think of where the world was 300 years ago. Whenever the worlds oil supply really starts to squeeze is when it hits the fan
 

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On a tangent.

Is anyone else nervous that Putin used to be a member of the KGB? This guy has communist ideals instilled in him. I don't know what to make of the guy.

IS
 

Rx. Junior
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HinesWard86 said:
South Africa is a longshot but there is definitely a chance. Resources make the world go round and South Africa is chock full of them. Look at Chile for example, they now have the 4th largest economy in the world and the enviable problem of a surplus of money flooding into their country. The resources that China and others are buying like crazy has made their economy boom.

Also, there is another interesting theory. The Pacific Rim theory. The US's strongest economic hold (Silicon Valley), Chile, the Asian Tigers, China, Japan, Russia, all line the Pacific Rim. Whereas just 100 years ago it was the Atlantic Rim countries having the greatest power, the balance of power might have switched to the Pacific.

Resources is 1 thing. But as far as fights goes...there is no way South Africa would win in any type of war. Espically because 75% of their citizens would rather fight the other 25%.
 

Last night I drank enough to kill a small Asian fa
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I do not doubt that there will be some sort of ethnic cleansing in South Africa at one point or another to "unify" the nation.

InSpades, Putin used to be a member of the KGB, but that doesn't mean he agreed with Communism or anything of the like. Putin is labeled harshly in the US and the world because he is doing what is necessary to rebuild the country. Yukos and other big businesses were openly defying the government by not paying taxes, so he had no choice but to go in there and bust them up after they told him to screw off. He has lessened the power of the Russian Mafia, the Orthodox Church, and the foreign companies that thrived in the Yeltsin administration since the government had no control. He is doing what he has to do in Chechnya because he has already had I believe 15 countries break away that had been theirs for years. Russia is made up of many different peoples, probably the second most fractured state in the world next to India. If Chechnya gets independence, what is to stop other separatist movements?

Also, let's look back and see that ALL great world economies are kickstarted by an authoritarian government. FDR was authoritarian and he kickstarted the US, Hitler kickstarted Germany, Stalin kickstarted USSR/Russia, Pinochet kickstarted Chile, the US presence in Germany and Japan after the war helped their economies boom, Cardenas in Mexico. The list goes on and on, yes most of these guys were also dictators but they strengthened their countries' economies greatly. Putin is doing the same in Russia right now and doing what needs to be done
 

Rx. Junior
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Romanowski said:
European Union MAX

nope. the US would still shit on Europe (not counting Russia).

The next world powers are gonna be a country still establishing itself and growing. not an already established country. in order to become a world power the people of that nation gotta be hungry to make money....you see that in counties like india & china. europeans are just as lazy as americans.
 

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Dont forget we have all the food! India has no food, China has no food, Russia has no food.
 

Rx. Junior
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Dubpoet said:
Dont forget we have all the food! India has no food, China has no food, Russia has no food.

that's why when your fat ass is sleeping a ninja is gonna come and bust you up.
 

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