How many better big men in history than Tim Duncan ?

[PacMan_2006]

A person that, once again, many have not taken notice of is Brad Daugherty. He was one of the better passing big men in the game not to mention his complete game.

Moses would wipe the floor with Shack hands down. Wes Unsel was a big body that filled his teams needs whom many a person don't recall/remember.

This being said, to me the top three (in no particuluar order) are:
Lew Alcindar/Kareem Abdul-Jabber, Wilt Chamberlain and Moses Malone.

The three best guards I've seen play are (in no particular order) are:
Magic Johnson, Mike Jordon and Oscar Robertson

The forward positions are very close and a strong case could be made for any of a dozen and so for now, I will pass on listing them.

 

[PacMan_2006]

Vescey said Duncan was one of the 12 best players ever at any position - you say he is one of the top 10 - this guy has 10 centers better than Duncan - what about guards and small forwards - most consider Jordan the best ever, then there is Magic, Kobe, Dr. J, Bird, Oscar Robinson, Marivech, etc.

I don't mean this to come out the wrong way, but Kobe does NOT belong with those whom you've listed. Everyone of them would school him. "The rapist" is good in today's game, but would be no better than a sixth man prior to all the expansion.

 

[PacMan_2006]

Welcome to TheRX. I appreciate you passion and willingness to share.



It seems it is your nostalgia speaking. There has been a great progress in all individual sports that World Record holders of the past would not make it to the national team today. It is doubtful that the team sports would not progress to the same extent.

I know the stats and it is noticeable that FT% and FG% were lower in the 60's to the extent that the best teams would be average nowadays. However, while I know my numbers, I know very little about basketball and I am looking forward to you defending your assessment.

If you go just by the numbers, you're missing the big picture. The seventh, eighth and ninth men from "the past" would be mega-stars today. The game's talent pool has decreased. Many of today's NBA players don't have the work ethic like those "from days gone past" and keep breaking down or not performing their best.

I know you're speaking about the NBA but in college most teams barely make over 70% of their free throws. Now a days, way to many in the NBA are unable to make over 80% of their free throws - that's ridiculous.

 

[Seymour]

I don't mean this to come out the wrong way, but Kobe does NOT belong with those whom you've listed. Everyone of them would school him. "The rapist" is good in today's game, but would be no better than a sixth man prior to all the expansion.

I'm not a Kobe fan myself but he is a pretty special player that I would have to put in the top 15 players of all time - he has everything plus he has the heart of a champion - he was just as important to the LA rings as Shaq - I only recall NBA to the early 80's though.

 

[Data]

Kobe does NOT belong with those whom you've listed

Agree, and who is Marivech?

 

[TKE683]

Kobe is great, but has not even won a playoff series since Shaq left.

 

[Data]

I'm not a Kobe fan myself but he is a pretty special player that I would have to put in the top 15 players of all time - he has everything plus he has the heart of a champion

I am not a cardiologist but the stats say he is top 25 the most, somewhat close to Iverson. This is going off topic but out of all currently playing guards he is sure below Nash and Garnett.

 

[PacMan_2006]

Agree, and who is Marivech?

This would be Pistol Pete Maravich, a guard. One of the 50 all time greats as selected a few years back when the NBA came out with their top 50 players. PBS had a special on him in the past 6 (maybe 8) weeks. The video is extremely poor when comparing it to today's advancements but the footage was clear.

 

[PacMan_2006]

I'm not a Kobe fan myself but he is a pretty special player that I would have to put in the top 15 players of all time - he has everything plus he has the heart of a champion - he was just as important to the LA rings as Shaq - I only recall NBA to the early 80's though.

He is special in terms of today's game but to me, he is not even in the top 100 players of all time (no regard to position). If you ever get a chance to go to the HOF, take the time needed to learn about those prior to your 80's knowledge and should you ever find "old" film of any of the games, buy it. What you'll see is that the players were fundamentally sound. Today's game may be quicker but that does not equate to a better quality.

 

[VIEJODINOSAUR]

Twofingers44.....GREAT post and very informative...and I CANNOT believe that I am agreeing with Dr.KIA for the very first time EVER.....JMAN, Oscar was one of the greatest ever if not the best ever...the man had more triple doubles than you could imagine and the NBA didn't recognize them back then..as a kid, was incredible to watch...

 

[PacMan_2006]

TB- Cowens and Malone comparison not very fair, Malone was out of high school and still a kid when Cowens was in his prime, Malone was unstoppable in his prime , around 81-83...I would give the nod to Hakeem , very slightly over Moses.

I wish I saw Oscar Robertson play...for anyone to say he was even in Jordan's league well, that must have been something to watch....I know he was on ther 71 Milwaukee team with Alcinder and they dominated the league swept thu the playoffs etc.

If/when I find some tape of him, I will find a shop that can transfer it to dvd format and sent it to you. Yes, the Big O was that good. Many site his name because of the triple double but when you see him play the game within the game you'll see what others know from experience.

 

[Data]

Yes, the Big O was that good.

Oh yes, he was. From my perspective, from the top of my head, career EFF 31. For comparison: Jordan - 29, Magic - 29, Kobe - 21.

 

[PacMan_2006]

Wilt was better than they say. He was the best ever and it's not that close.

I think he would eat alive even a big guy like Shaq. He would run circles around him. It would be great to see and If you know anything about Wilt He would have loved the challenge.

Oscar and Jerry would be the 2 best players in the league today if they were young and playing. No question about it!

In 30 years there are people who think humans have progressed to the point where are athletes somehow alot better than they were 30 to 40 years ago.

The only change would be conditioning and diet. The athlete stay in much better shape these days because of the money involved.

If the money and health advancements and training were around like they are today. These players would have been even better. Everyone of them!

Was it just by chance the lane was made wider in this time frame? Have been told by others, he'd straddle the lane, get the ball and still make the shot all without getting three seconds called.

 

[PacMan_2006]

Oh yes, he was. From my perspective, from the top of my head, career EFF 31. For comparison: Jordan - 29, Magic - 29, Kobe - 21.

What is EFF? Thank you.

 

[Data]

What is EFF? Thank you.

EFF=((Pts + Reb + Stls + Asts + Blks) - ((FgA - FgM) + (FtA - FtM) + TO))/G

A very insightful stat developed in 2002.

 

[PacMan_2006]

EFF=((Pts + Reb + Stls + Asts + Blks) - ((FgA - FgM) + (FtA - FtM) + TO))/G

A very insightful stat developed in 2002.

This looks like what was called the Tendex Rating System from years ago. Higher is thought of as better, right?

 

[Data]

This looks like what was called the Tendex Rating System from years ago. Higher is thought of as better, right?

Yes, higher is better and it is simplified Dave Heeren's Tendex rating. The difference is that in Tendex you use Game-Pace factor instead of G(ames played).

 

[Seymour]

Data - you are going by stats which are relevantly meaningless - I know you said that you did now know alot about basketball so I am not going to say anything negative but you need to watch some of the players for while - it is offensive to hear Iverson or Garnett's name in the top 25 of all time - they're barely in the top 2500 of all time - stats mean little to nothing - Tim Duncan's season does not start even start until May - those guys are lucky to play the first week in May - going by stats McGrady and Carter are two of the best of all time - reality is McGrady and Carter were probably running with Ameaci last night.

 

[Seymour]

He is special in terms of today's game but to me, he is not even in the top 100 players of all time (no regard to position). If you ever get a chance to go to the HOF, take the time needed to learn about those prior to your 80's knowledge and should you ever find "old" film of any of the games, buy it. What you'll see is that the players were fundamentally sound. Today's game may be quicker but that does not equate to a better quality.

I don't know - after Jordan I consider Kobe the next best scorer/individual player of all time - his team is really bad - I mean real bad - the second best player on his team has the heart of a flea - Kobe has rings and has consistently made clutch timely shots - in the exact fashion Jordan did. Believe me I not into these and one players like Iverson, Carter, etc. My favorite players are Nash, Billups, Duncan, Bird, etc.

 

[lapdance]

How is Shaq not better? He is the best player since Jordan... and the best big man of our time... arguably the most dominating player ever to put on a uniform...

best player since jordan? YOU ARE A JOKE!!!!! nobody that follows the game would make that statement.