I never saw Russell or Chamberlain (I'm 35) but I would assume Shaq is the last ten years' Chamberlain and Duncan is the last ten years' Russell - if you asked every GM assume every player in the league is 25 who do you want? - 50% would take Shaq and 50% would take Duncan with the first pick - and not one GM would take one other player over these two studs.
Been a serious NBA fan for almost 40 years. Here is my order:
1) Wilt - hands down. He would be ever MORE dominant today. Back in the 60's, there was not the diluted talent pool of today. Wilt was facing quality centers most every night. Would play Russell eight times a year, Thurmond, eight times a year, Bellamy eight times a year. Beatty eight times a year, Red Kerr eight times a year. Russell, Bellamy, and Thurmond were all HOF and Kerr and Beatty were good centers for a long time. Wilt could do anything on the court; shoot (except FT), pass, rebound, dribble and was the most intimadating player ever. Could you see Kwane Brown trying to stop him? Eddy Curry? Mahemet Okur? Jake Voskul? Etan Thomas? he consistently lit up Russell, the best defender ever ( IMHO opinion Wilt was even better...never fouled out of a game ...ever), for 30-40 points a game to go with 20+ rebounds. It is true that the Celtics and Russell always had better complimentary players but a bigger factor was coaching and luck. Wilt was saddled with some bad coaches in his prime and Boston always had Auerbach. The ball bounces a little differently, a shot rattles and goes out instead of in, and Wilt has a couple more championships easily.
The superstars of the NBA in the 60's were everybit as good as the stars of today. West, Baylor, Robertson, Wilt, Russell, Dave Bing, Bob Pettit, ect would all be stars today as well. The big difference is that the second tier of players in the 60's are better then todays players. Fundamentally, shooting the ball, passing the ball, playing tough defense, they were better.
2) Jabbar - As unstoppable as Chamberlain offensively but far below in defense , rebounding, and passing. Did not seem to have the desire to dominate the whole game, on both ends, like Wilt did.
3) Russell - Had everything but offensive moves. Worked hard for every bucket he scored. Nobody came to play like Russell did at the position.
4) Moses Malone - When he was young and healthy and still had legs, he was right up there with the best. Great rebounder, unstoppable in the paint, relentless. Watch the finals against the Lakers when Philly swept them in four and tell me you disagree.
5) Hakeem - Took him awhile to reach his prime but when he did, he was the best center in the NBA for a 6-7 year period. Great defender, great baseline jumper, great heart, great rebounder.
6) Shaq - If he could have shot between 75-80% from the line, he could have broken all the scoring records. Absolutely unstoppable when he got the ball low. Either he scored or you foul. To bad he was taken out of so many games in the 4th quarter because of his FT shooting. Never a dominate defensive player or rebounder. Always thought he would have been ever better if he could have played about 30 lbs lighter but his body was not built that way.
7) Walton - If not for the feet, he would probably be #2. Used to dominate Jabbar in mid-late 70's. Complete package. Nothing he could not do. Made everyone who played with him better as well.
8 - 10 Take your pick....Ewing....Thurmond....Wes Unseld....Duncan... David Robinson.
It's to bad that there is not much tape of the 1960's out there. I know it is hard for those who never saw Wilt to comprehend how good he actually was, but for those of us who did, there is no arguement as to who was the best center ever.
1) Wilt - hands down. He would be ever MORE dominant today. Back in the 60's, there was not the diluted talent pool of today. Wilt was facing quality centers most every night. Would play Russell eight times a year, Thurmond, eight times a year, Bellamy eight times a year. Beatty eight times a year, Red Kerr eight times a year. Russell, Bellamy, and Thurmond were all HOF and Kerr and Beatty were good centers for a long time. Wilt could do anything on the court; shoot (except FT), pass, rebound, dribble and was the most intimadating player ever. Could you see Kwane Brown trying to stop him? Eddy Curry? Mahemet Okur? Jake Voskul? Etan Thomas? he consistently lit up Russell, the best defender ever ( IMHO opinion Wilt was even better...never fouled out of a game ...ever), for 30-40 points a game to go with 20+ rebounds. It is true that the Celtics and Russell always had better complimentary players but a bigger factor was coaching and luck. Wilt was saddled with some bad coaches in his prime and Boston always had Auerbach. The ball bounces a little differently, a shot rattles and goes out instead of in, and Wilt has a couple more championships easily.
The superstars of the NBA in the 60's were everybit as good as the stars of today. West, Baylor, Robertson, Wilt, Russell, Dave Bing, Bob Pettit, ect would all be stars today as well. The big difference is that the second tier of players in the 60's are better then todays players. Fundamentally, shooting the ball, passing the ball, playing tough defense, they were better.
2) Jabbar - As unstoppable as Chamberlain offensively but far below in defense , rebounding, and passing. Did not seem to have the desire to dominate the whole game, on both ends, like Wilt did.
3) Russell - Had everything but offensive moves. Worked hard for every bucket he scored. Nobody came to play like Russell did at the position.
4) Moses Malone - When he was young and healthy and still had legs, he was right up there with the best. Great rebounder, unstoppable in the paint, relentless. Watch the finals against the Lakers when Philly swept them in four and tell me you disagree.
5) Hakeem - Took him awhile to reach his prime but when he did, he was the best center in the NBA for a 6-7 year period. Great defender, great baseline jumper, great heart, great rebounder.
6) Shaq - If he could have shot between 75-80% from the line, he could have broken all the scoring records. Absolutely unstoppable when he got the ball low. Either he scored or you foul. To bad he was taken out of so many games in the 4th quarter because of his FT shooting. Never a dominate defensive player or rebounder. Always thought he would have been ever better if he could have played about 30 lbs lighter but his body was not built that way.
7) Walton - If not for the feet, he would probably be #2. Used to dominate Jabbar in mid-late 70's. Complete package. Nothing he could not do. Made everyone who played with him better as well.
8 - 10 Take your pick....Ewing....Thurmond....Wes Unseld....Duncan... David Robinson.
It's to bad that there is not much tape of the 1960's out there. I know it is hard for those who never saw Wilt to comprehend how good he actually was, but for those of us who did, there is no arguement as to who was the best center ever.
Twofingers44, great post, I could not have written it any more right on than you did and I have been a big NBA fan since the late 50s. I grew up not far from Boston Garden and went to many a game that were clinics compared to what we get today from the NBA.
Oscar Roberstson in his prime is probably the best all around player to ever play in the league. I know most will say Michael Jordan but that is only because they never so Big O in his prime. His stats are mindblowing.
Most overlooked:
Walt Bellamy - Walt was a riot to listen to on the court if you could sit close enough to hear him. He talked to him self in the third person. "why do they always call 3 seconds on Mr. Walt Bellamy and never on Mr. Chamberlain or on Mr. Russell" etc etc. However he was the real deal and had some big years with the old Chicago Zephers/Bulls. He averaged over 31 points a game his rookie year and made it to the NBA HOF in the early 90s. Bells is the answer to an obscure NBA trivia question.
What player holds the record for most regular season games played in one season. The answer is Bellamy who played 88 in the 68/69 season - reason - because he got traded mid season and the scheduled worked out that way. Bells also played on the 1960 Undefeated gold medal winning US Olympic basketball team, a team that also featured hall of famers Jerry West. Jerry Lucas, and Oscar Robertson..
wil.
Oscar Roberstson in his prime is probably the best all around player to ever play in the league. I know most will say Michael Jordan but that is only because they never so Big O in his prime. His stats are mindblowing.
Most overlooked:
Walt Bellamy - Walt was a riot to listen to on the court if you could sit close enough to hear him. He talked to him self in the third person. "why do they always call 3 seconds on Mr. Walt Bellamy and never on Mr. Chamberlain or on Mr. Russell" etc etc. However he was the real deal and had some big years with the old Chicago Zephers/Bulls. He averaged over 31 points a game his rookie year and made it to the NBA HOF in the early 90s. Bells is the answer to an obscure NBA trivia question.
What player holds the record for most regular season games played in one season. The answer is Bellamy who played 88 in the 68/69 season - reason - because he got traded mid season and the scheduled worked out that way. Bells also played on the 1960 Undefeated gold medal winning US Olympic basketball team, a team that also featured hall of famers Jerry West. Jerry Lucas, and Oscar Robertson..
wil.
Great job. Cannot argue with much and it is truly hard to separate the top players. I agree with Walton if he was not injured. Just look at his 77 finals on ESPN classic and he was incredible. Disagree with Moses at #4 as Dave Cowens (don't forget the big redhead) owned him. All in all a great job abd thanks.
TB- Cowens and Malone comparison not very fair, Malone was out of high school and still a kid when Cowens was in his prime, Malone was unstoppable in his prime , around 81-83...I would give the nod to Hakeem , very slightly over Moses.
I wish I saw Oscar Robertson play...for anyone to say he was even in Jordan's league well, that must have been something to watch....I know he was on ther 71 Milwaukee team with Alcinder and they dominated the league swept thu the playoffs etc.
I wish I saw Oscar Robertson play...for anyone to say he was even in Jordan's league well, that must have been something to watch....I know he was on ther 71 Milwaukee team with Alcinder and they dominated the league swept thu the playoffs etc.
Wilt was better than they say. He was the best ever and it's not that close.
I think he would eat alive even a big guy like Shaq. He would run circles around him. It would be great to see and If you know anything about Wilt He would have loved the challenge.
Oscar and Jerry would be the 2 best players in the league today if they were young and playing. No question about it!
In 30 years there are people who think humans have progressed to the point where are athletes somehow alot better than they were 30 to 40 years ago.
The only change would be conditioning and diet. The athlete stay in much better shape these days because of the money involved.
If the money and health advancements and training were around like they are today. These players would have been even better. Everyone of them!
I think he would eat alive even a big guy like Shaq. He would run circles around him. It would be great to see and If you know anything about Wilt He would have loved the challenge.
Oscar and Jerry would be the 2 best players in the league today if they were young and playing. No question about it!
In 30 years there are people who think humans have progressed to the point where are athletes somehow alot better than they were 30 to 40 years ago.
The only change would be conditioning and diet. The athlete stay in much better shape these days because of the money involved.
If the money and health advancements and training were around like they are today. These players would have been even better. Everyone of them!
That post is great - I stopped reading after it had Moses Malone (??????), David Robinson (Mr. Soft), Walton (are we talking NBA) and Ewing (has what to show for his career) in the same breathe as Duncan - after the game Peter Vescey said Duncan in one of the top 12 PLAYERS to ever play and you have 10 better than him at center? Well, I guess that would put Jordan and Magic some where just behind big Tim - let's get real here - the guy is univerally accepted as the greatest PF ever by ever basketball analyst there is.
Welcome to TheRX. I appreciate you passion and willingness to share.
It seems it is your nostalgia speaking. There has been a great progress in all individual sports that World Record holders of the past would not make it to the national team today. It is doubtful that the team sports would not progress to the same extent.
I know the stats and it is noticeable that FT% and FG% were lower in the 60's to the extent that the best teams would be average nowadays. However, while I know my numbers, I know very little about basketball and I am looking forward to you defending your assessment.
Vescey said Duncan was one of the 12 best players ever at any position - you say he is one of the top 10 - this guy has 10 centers better than Duncan - what about guards and small forwards - most consider Jordan the best ever, then there is Magic, Kobe, Dr. J, Bird, Oscar Robinson, Marivech, etc.
