Yeah, I'm sure you didn't read what I wrote, that's why you just happened to know that I referenced Rhodes Scholar, right? And I just left you looking like a complete and utter fool, you try to pretend you're the highly educated man, and couldn't even write a proper sentence. I'm sure you won't read THIS, either. Schmuck....
ointer:Loser!@#0:madasshol:bigfinger:bigfinger
THEY CHEATED....I know they did, you know they did, EVERYBODY knows they did. But not one person on this earth has given any clear explanation of how it helped them.
Here is Bill Cohwer saying it didn't help them in the 2001 AFC Championship game. He also adds that everyone was doing this, it was common practice at the time, all teams knew it and tried to safe guard against it. Belichick got fined because the league sent out a letter to every team saying you cannot do this anymore and Bill basically said "FU" to the league, that is why he was fined.
Tell me this. Why didn't the Pats get any wins revoked? Titles and Championships taken away? I mean according to you guys it is the end all be all why wouldn't they lose MORE?
Why didn't Goodell come in a make a real statement towards them? 250K fine for Belichick?? Thats a slap on the wrist, Take a draft pick away? Big deal he hoards them lol.
Maybe, just maybe, because he knew these tapes were not a big deal. Belichick ignored his demands so he flexed his muscles.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ay84Z2XJx0Y
Ahh, you didn't say that, huh? Well, in the statement "OMG. They cheated wa wa wa. Fucking cry babies blaming other things that they cant prove" what are you referring to by "....things they can't prove?" asshole? And, once again, we have a moron insulting somebody's intelligence and showing themselves to be the moron in doing so:
"Your a fucking idiot." The number of mouth breathers who don't know the difference between "your" and "you're" is staggering, and YOU call ME illiterate, ROTFLMAO!!!!! And, spraying your shorts over the Belicheats, "winning and winning and winning!" also pathetic. Let me ask you, do they measure success by making the playoffs, or by winning Super Bowls? You're not going to answer that question-or at least, you won't do so honestly. And to a "Patsfanatic" whose dirt shoot is sore, for obvious reasons, over the last decade, I'm sure ""haven't won a superbowl since spygate?" IS overused, lol, but, here's the deal: IT'S TRUE, SCUMBAG!!!! YOU calling somebody who disagrees with you a "hater" like some pimply faced high school bitch is just your opinion, nothing else. See how that works?
YOU'RE(notice the correct usage, Forrest) a f'ing moron, and a dishonest one,at that.kth)(&^:fckmad:cockingasnook()
ointer:azzkick(&^Loser!@#0:bigfinger:trx-smly0:kissingbb:Countdownsdf - you seem like a level headed poster. I don't see any garbage out of you. But you honestly think the Pats haven't won a SB since spygate because of it?
It has had nothing to do with their defense? Their lack of big plays? Shit, their overall luck since then? I mean you can't come any closer with those two superbowl losses.
You honestly think Tyree making that catch or Welker dropping that WIDE OPEN pass was not the reason for them winning, it was because of Spygate?
Truly???
"the guy is obvious an idiot. Plenty of degenerate..." 2 errors in 9 words, where'd you get you "degree," Einstein, from a cracker jack box??? You couldn't find your dick with 2 hands and a road map, and you're waxing fondly about the days in New York when you got you graduate degree? Lying sack of shit...
Ahh, you didn't say that, huh? Well, in the statement "OMG. They cheated wa wa wa. Fucking cry babies blaming other things that they cant prove" what are you referring to by "....things they can't prove?" asshole? And, once again, we have a moron insulting somebody's intelligence and showing themselves to be the moron in doing so:
"Your a fucking idiot." The number of mouth breathers who don't know the difference between "your" and "you're" is staggering, and YOU call ME illiterate, ROTFLMAO!!!!! And, spraying your shorts over the Belicheats, "winning and winning and winning!" also pathetic. Let me ask you, do they measure success by making the playoffs, or by winning Super Bowls? You're not going to answer that question-or at least, you won't do so honestly. And to a "Patsfanatic" whose dirt shoot is sore, for obvious reasons, over the last decade, I'm sure ""haven't won a superbowl since spygate?" IS overused, lol, but, here's the deal: IT'S TRUE, SCUMBAG!!!! YOU calling somebody who disagrees with you a "hater" like some pimply faced high school bitch is just your opinion, nothing else. See how that works?
YOU'RE(notice the correct usage, Forrest) a f'ing moron, and a dishonest one,at that.kth)(&^:fckmad:cockingasnook()
A few minutes away from the key board hasn't helped you huh?
Post #31
I will type your a douche bag, you're a douche bag, or yur a douche bag.
They all mean the same thing. I'm getting my point across not trying to type an english essay.
So what am I dishonest about? Please prove it, just like you can prove all the help the Pats got from spygate and the ridiculous amounts of wins before and AFTER.
I will repeat it since you like to ignore things and just rant. They have won more games than anyone else since. So how does it effect them?
The fact they haven't won a SB since? Neither has like 25 other teams...what does that prove? Nothing but your lame ass argument.
This list was compiled before last nights SB. Basically, it all depends on the era in which they played. I would have liked to have added Y.A. Tittle, and Earl Morrall to the list. Both were darn good in their time.
Here is the list
[h=3]Top 10 NFL quarterbacks[/h] Denver Post NFL reporter Mike Klis lists his all-time best QBs. (If Denver loses Sunday, Manning drops behind Boss Elway, Unitas and Brady.)
1. Joe Montana
So methodically brilliant in going 4-0 in Super Bowls. His effortless big-game performances gave birth to the cliché "cool as the other side of the pillow."
2. Peyton Manning
No one ever played the position more efficiently. But it's a tough list, and the pick-six by Tracy Porter in a Super Bowl loss to New Orleans leaves him below Montana.
3. John Elway
Even if Manning was better, Elway was more mesmerizing. He could beat you by arm, by legs and by helicopter.
4. Johnny Unitas
He threw a touchdown pass in 47 consecutive games, a record that held for — get this — 52 years! Drew Brees didn't break it until 2012. Neither Montana nor Manning dominated their era as Johnny U. dominated his.
5. Tom Brady
He's not near the passer of Manning. Not even close. But there is a winning intangible about Brady that is difficult to describe.
6. Otto Graham
He went 4-0 in championship games in his first four AAFC seasons. Then he went 3-3 in NFL title games in his first six NFL seasons. But he threw 88 TD passes against 94 picks in the NFL, so don't get any ideas about a higher ranking.
7. Steve Young
This guy was so good, the 49ers gave up on Montana so they could give Young a chance to play. Might have been the all-time best combination of runner/high-percentage passer.
8. Sammy Baugh
As Babe Ruth brought the home run excitement to baseball, Baugh really delivered the forward pass to the NFL. He retired as the career leader in passing yards, touchdown passes, punt average and interceptions.
9. Brett Favre
A body of work counts, and besides one Super Bowl win, he holds all significant career passing records — at least until Peyton starts breaking them in the next year or two.
10. Bart Starr, Terry Bradshaw (tie)
Starr is the only quarterback to win five NFL championships, including Super Bowls I and II. Bradshaw went 4-0 in Super Bowls. They generally get docked because they led deeply talented teams.
Wish there was a longer list
Dan Marino, Troy Aikman, Sid Luckman, Joe Namath, Drew Brees, Fran Tarkenton, Arnie Herber, Norm Van Brocklin, Roger Staubach.
Here is the list
[h=3]Top 10 NFL quarterbacks[/h] Denver Post NFL reporter Mike Klis lists his all-time best QBs. (If Denver loses Sunday, Manning drops behind Boss Elway, Unitas and Brady.)
1. Joe Montana
So methodically brilliant in going 4-0 in Super Bowls. His effortless big-game performances gave birth to the cliché "cool as the other side of the pillow."
2. Peyton Manning
No one ever played the position more efficiently. But it's a tough list, and the pick-six by Tracy Porter in a Super Bowl loss to New Orleans leaves him below Montana.
3. John Elway
Even if Manning was better, Elway was more mesmerizing. He could beat you by arm, by legs and by helicopter.
4. Johnny Unitas
He threw a touchdown pass in 47 consecutive games, a record that held for — get this — 52 years! Drew Brees didn't break it until 2012. Neither Montana nor Manning dominated their era as Johnny U. dominated his.
5. Tom Brady
He's not near the passer of Manning. Not even close. But there is a winning intangible about Brady that is difficult to describe.
6. Otto Graham
He went 4-0 in championship games in his first four AAFC seasons. Then he went 3-3 in NFL title games in his first six NFL seasons. But he threw 88 TD passes against 94 picks in the NFL, so don't get any ideas about a higher ranking.
7. Steve Young
This guy was so good, the 49ers gave up on Montana so they could give Young a chance to play. Might have been the all-time best combination of runner/high-percentage passer.
8. Sammy Baugh
As Babe Ruth brought the home run excitement to baseball, Baugh really delivered the forward pass to the NFL. He retired as the career leader in passing yards, touchdown passes, punt average and interceptions.
9. Brett Favre
A body of work counts, and besides one Super Bowl win, he holds all significant career passing records — at least until Peyton starts breaking them in the next year or two.
10. Bart Starr, Terry Bradshaw (tie)
Starr is the only quarterback to win five NFL championships, including Super Bowls I and II. Bradshaw went 4-0 in Super Bowls. They generally get docked because they led deeply talented teams.
Wish there was a longer list
Dan Marino, Troy Aikman, Sid Luckman, Joe Namath, Drew Brees, Fran Tarkenton, Arnie Herber, Norm Van Brocklin, Roger Staubach.
Everyone has their own list. Here is another one that has a few different QBs.
1. Joe Montana (1979-'94): Magnificent from the pocket. Exceptional on the move. Great passer and a great runner. So poised and so accurate. It was poetry in motion.
2. Johnny Unitas (1956-'73): Helped drag the passing game into the modern era with the help of Raymond Berry. All the successful quarterbacks of that era had to be the toughest player on the field given the savagery inflicted upon them well after the ball was out. The ultimate leader of men.
3. Tom Brady (2000-'13, active): His strength of character has shone through time after time. Perfectionist in every way, shape and form. Never a threat to run but possesses brilliant feel for stepping into available throwing lanes. High overhand delivery and a perfect spiral.
4. Dan Marino (1983-'99): Perhaps the quickest release ever. Pure pocket passer with cannon for an arm. Highly emotional leader. Tremendous in the clutch.
5. Peyton Manning (1998-'13, active): Near the top of most-prepared passers ever. Used his domineering personality to make football a legitimate sport in basketball-mad Indiana. Early master of the no-huddle offense. Prototypical height, extremely limited athlete.
6. Brett Favre (1991-2010): Nobody had more fun playing the game. Not many ever had an arm like his, either. Teammates loved playing with him. Defined the gunslinger quarterback.
7. John Elway (1983-'98): Probably the best pure athlete on this or any list. Arm strength ranked right alongside Favre's. Rare running ability.
8. Steve Young (1985-'99): Six NFL single-season passing titles. Gifted scrambler-runner with exceptional speed and courage. Over time, he became a disciplined West Coast pocket passer despite standing barely 6 feet.
9. Dan Fouts (1973-'87): The backbone of Air Coryell. Almost like a boxer in that he'd stand there and take the most of brutal shots in order to deliver one downfield.
10. Roger Staubach (1969-'79): Didn't start his career with the Cowboys until age 27 because of U.S. Navy commitment. Athletic, efficient and iron-willed.
11. Fran Tarkenton (1961-'78): Might be the most exciting player ever. His crazy-quilt scrambles put people in the seats and helped sell the NFL game on TV. A little man with the guts of a burglar.
12. Len Dawson (1957-'75): The consummate passer. Six AFL-NFL passing titles. Stood just 6-0 but could be devastating throwing from Hank Stram's moving pocket.
13. Terry Bradshaw (1970-'83): Big arm and an even bigger personality. Overcame sluggish start to his career and became the all-time Super Bowl winner. Outstanding athlete.
14. Ken Anderson (1971-'86): Technically superior. Threw with pinpoint accuracy. A complete quarterback.
15. Ken Stabler (1970-'84): Fearless competitor with a whip for an arm. Big, left-handed pocket passer. Really good in the clutch.
16. Sonny Jurgensen (1957-'74): Played his final season at age 40. Deadly deep-ball thrower but, really, could throw any pass. Never took himself too seriously.
17. Kurt Warner (1998-2009): It all started with a tentative stint as a rookie free agent in the Packers' training camp of '94. Rags-to-riches story for the ages. When he got hot, it was over.
18. Ben Roethlisberger (2004-'13, active): Has anyone ever been more difficult to sack in the pocket? Better throwing on the move than from the spot.
19. Troy Aikman (1989-2000): Prototypical pocket passer with prototypical size. Effective scrambler early in career, too.
20. Steve McNair (1995-2007): Benefited by sitting early in his career. Developed into a consistent thrower, but his career was defined by toughness and running.
21. Donovan McNabb (1999-2011): Always seemed to run through the middle for first downs when Eagles needed them most. Developed into capable passer from mid-career on.
22. Warren Moon (1984-2000): Played until 44. After failing to attract an NFL contract out of the University of Washington, he led Edmonton to five straight Grey Cup titles. Rangy athlete and talented thrower.
23. Randall Cunningham (1985-2001): Rifle-armed passer, electrifying runner and serviceable punter. Dazzling, somewhat unpredictable big-play specialist.
24. Bert Jones (1973-'82): Career ruined early by shoulder injuries. Unreal competitor and passer. Bill Belichick has called him the best "pure passer" he ever saw.
25. Drew Brees (2001-'13, active): Far better athlete than given credit for. Terrific competitiveness and throwing accuracy. Unusually high delivery helped him flourish at just 6-0.
Among many considered, here in alphabetical order are the next 12: John Brodie (1957-'73); Roman Gabriel (1962-'77); Bob Griese (1967-'80); John Hadl (1962-'77); Jim Hart (1966-'84); Jim Kelly (1986-'96); Archie Manning (1971-'84); Earl Morrall (1956-'76); Joe Namath (1965-'77); Jim Plunkett (1971-'86); Bart Starr (1956-'71); Y.A. Tittle (1948-'64).
1. Joe Montana (1979-'94): Magnificent from the pocket. Exceptional on the move. Great passer and a great runner. So poised and so accurate. It was poetry in motion.
2. Johnny Unitas (1956-'73): Helped drag the passing game into the modern era with the help of Raymond Berry. All the successful quarterbacks of that era had to be the toughest player on the field given the savagery inflicted upon them well after the ball was out. The ultimate leader of men.
3. Tom Brady (2000-'13, active): His strength of character has shone through time after time. Perfectionist in every way, shape and form. Never a threat to run but possesses brilliant feel for stepping into available throwing lanes. High overhand delivery and a perfect spiral.
4. Dan Marino (1983-'99): Perhaps the quickest release ever. Pure pocket passer with cannon for an arm. Highly emotional leader. Tremendous in the clutch.
5. Peyton Manning (1998-'13, active): Near the top of most-prepared passers ever. Used his domineering personality to make football a legitimate sport in basketball-mad Indiana. Early master of the no-huddle offense. Prototypical height, extremely limited athlete.
6. Brett Favre (1991-2010): Nobody had more fun playing the game. Not many ever had an arm like his, either. Teammates loved playing with him. Defined the gunslinger quarterback.
7. John Elway (1983-'98): Probably the best pure athlete on this or any list. Arm strength ranked right alongside Favre's. Rare running ability.
8. Steve Young (1985-'99): Six NFL single-season passing titles. Gifted scrambler-runner with exceptional speed and courage. Over time, he became a disciplined West Coast pocket passer despite standing barely 6 feet.
9. Dan Fouts (1973-'87): The backbone of Air Coryell. Almost like a boxer in that he'd stand there and take the most of brutal shots in order to deliver one downfield.
10. Roger Staubach (1969-'79): Didn't start his career with the Cowboys until age 27 because of U.S. Navy commitment. Athletic, efficient and iron-willed.
11. Fran Tarkenton (1961-'78): Might be the most exciting player ever. His crazy-quilt scrambles put people in the seats and helped sell the NFL game on TV. A little man with the guts of a burglar.
12. Len Dawson (1957-'75): The consummate passer. Six AFL-NFL passing titles. Stood just 6-0 but could be devastating throwing from Hank Stram's moving pocket.
13. Terry Bradshaw (1970-'83): Big arm and an even bigger personality. Overcame sluggish start to his career and became the all-time Super Bowl winner. Outstanding athlete.
14. Ken Anderson (1971-'86): Technically superior. Threw with pinpoint accuracy. A complete quarterback.
15. Ken Stabler (1970-'84): Fearless competitor with a whip for an arm. Big, left-handed pocket passer. Really good in the clutch.
16. Sonny Jurgensen (1957-'74): Played his final season at age 40. Deadly deep-ball thrower but, really, could throw any pass. Never took himself too seriously.
17. Kurt Warner (1998-2009): It all started with a tentative stint as a rookie free agent in the Packers' training camp of '94. Rags-to-riches story for the ages. When he got hot, it was over.
18. Ben Roethlisberger (2004-'13, active): Has anyone ever been more difficult to sack in the pocket? Better throwing on the move than from the spot.
19. Troy Aikman (1989-2000): Prototypical pocket passer with prototypical size. Effective scrambler early in career, too.
20. Steve McNair (1995-2007): Benefited by sitting early in his career. Developed into a consistent thrower, but his career was defined by toughness and running.
21. Donovan McNabb (1999-2011): Always seemed to run through the middle for first downs when Eagles needed them most. Developed into capable passer from mid-career on.
22. Warren Moon (1984-2000): Played until 44. After failing to attract an NFL contract out of the University of Washington, he led Edmonton to five straight Grey Cup titles. Rangy athlete and talented thrower.
23. Randall Cunningham (1985-2001): Rifle-armed passer, electrifying runner and serviceable punter. Dazzling, somewhat unpredictable big-play specialist.
24. Bert Jones (1973-'82): Career ruined early by shoulder injuries. Unreal competitor and passer. Bill Belichick has called him the best "pure passer" he ever saw.
25. Drew Brees (2001-'13, active): Far better athlete than given credit for. Terrific competitiveness and throwing accuracy. Unusually high delivery helped him flourish at just 6-0.
Among many considered, here in alphabetical order are the next 12: John Brodie (1957-'73); Roman Gabriel (1962-'77); Bob Griese (1967-'80); John Hadl (1962-'77); Jim Hart (1966-'84); Jim Kelly (1986-'96); Archie Manning (1971-'84); Earl Morrall (1956-'76); Joe Namath (1965-'77); Jim Plunkett (1971-'86); Bart Starr (1956-'71); Y.A. Tittle (1948-'64).
Your delusional.
Its not about stats and records.
Your argument is as square as they come. Its pointless debating this subject with a person that obviously has no clue as to what makes a QB great.
After last night's disgraceful performance Manning belongs maybe in the top 10 because he has been around for so long and is efficient most of the time in the regualr season. His playoff record in big games is mediocre. Think he is 11-12 w a lot of 1 and dones. Now 1-2 in SBs. This one against a sophmore QB. That is not elite in any way.
Last night he played like someone who had never been in a big game before. 74 pr. That is not really worthy of top 10 all time elite QBs even.
Last night he played like someone who had never been in a big game before. 74 pr. That is not really worthy of top 10 all time elite QBs even.
You are too stupid to realize that you aren't helping you case when you insult somebody's intelligence and show that you don't know basic English-and you've done it before, because you're an ignorant cocksucker. The arrogance and stupidity required to state that YOU know for a fact that Belicheat wasn't helped by cheating is staggering-including that you're tacitly saying that you even know more than your sainted, pompous hoody wearing cheater: if it didn't provide any benefit, why do they DO it, Schmuck???? Any, if you were taking a test, and were discovered with the answers stuffed in your pants, do you think if you pointed out that you hadn't actually peeked at the answers, that that would make any difference? Are you REALLY that stupid?!?!
And, answer the question, Scumbag: you're shooting a load over "wins" but answer, DO THE CHEATING, SCUMBAG PATRIOTS MEASURE SUCCESS ON MAKING THE PLAYOFFS, OR WINNING SUPERBOWLS???
You're obviously a fraud, if you have any kind of graduate degree, I'll kiss your ass at high noon in Macy's window. And, anybody who says, it isn't cheating unless you're caught, is obviously a low life scumbag, with a low moral character. And, like I said, anybody who compares a so-called push off foul to secret taping of the opponents is a f'ing moron.kth)(&^:fckmad:cockingasnook()
ointer:azzkick(&^Loser!@#0:bigfinger:trx-smly0:kissingbb:CountdownThe 74 QB rating is the lowest since Goodman, who, if I heard correctly had a 7; SEVEN! How is that even possible? No wonder Payton got his one and only SB, remember, he was no bargain in that game, either. And, you're right, he's 11-12 in the playoffs, most losses of all time, and does anybody want to guess which QB in NFL history has the greatest differential-21.8%-between his regular season winning percentage and his post season winning percentage? And he's STILL getting a pass, of sorts, I saw on yahoo or somewhere, talking about how "classy" his post game comments were. They may have been classy, but they were delusional, as well. He was asked if he thought the team's performance was "embarrassing," and he said he considered the question "insulting." It the following wasn't embarrassing,what IS????
1) Highest powered offense in history, didn't get a first down until the second quarter, and scored EIGHT POINTS for the entire game-and even that wasn't until the game had long since been decided.
2) Ran a draw play on 3rd and 14 when they were already down big
3) Down 22-0 at half time, but with the aforementioned "high powered" offense, I'm sure they got the obligatory fiery half time speech that they could come back(like the Pats did against THEM not long ago), so, what do they do? Give up an TD on the kick off, and, as the late Don Meredith used to sing, "turn out the lights, the party's over."
The way people gloss over his playoff failures is astonishing, especially since much of them are recent: down by 7 late against the Saints in the SB, but driving, doing his calling audibles at the line and directing everybody where to go, and what does he do? Throws a hideous pick six to seal the deal for the opponents. Just last year, yes, it wasn't his fault that the Broncos allowed a 70 yard game tying touchdown in the last 30 seconds, but the key phrase there is "game tying," even after Fox showed no balls by trying to score in regulation, the Broncos were in OT, with the ball first, with a chance to win the game with a TD or get a significant edge with the new rules with a FG, so what does the ersatz GOAT do? Throws another hideous pick that sets up the game winning FG for Baltimore. And, of course, yesterday, after sarcastically replying to Sherman's claim that he, Manning, throws "ducks" sometimes, he does exactly that on the first pick he threw yesterday(where, unlike the obligatory pick six he also threw, he was not hit as he threw). He had nervous feet from the jump, even though he was not sacked, and to ignore the difference between his regular season performance and his post season is to be, like I said, delusional.
Yes, you are.
You want to compare stats from 2 different eras, 2 different sets of rules.
Only a fool would even begin a discussion making this comparison. You probably aren't old enough to have watched or appreciate Staubach. Thats the only reason you wouldn't include him.
Staubach was a QB of great skill and leadership. I would take him over Manning 7 days a week.
You make it sound as if manning is the only QB in history that calls plays. First of all, he isn't. Secondly, he's given the plays and makes adjustments. All of the finger pointing and cries of "Omaha!!" is a lot of noise. Drew Brees does just as much pre snap directing as Manning. Lots of QBs do, but for some reason people spew all over Manning doing it. Please.
Manning over Elway?? I hope you're about 16 years old. If you're older and were able to watch Elway, and still think Manning is better then you should just stop talking about football. Nothing could be more ridiculous than anybody saying Manning is better than Elway.
Offensive Coordinator on the field. Right. Finger pointing, OMAHA!!!, and all the rest. He is far from an OC on the field. He's a very good QB, but below the very best.
Bart Starr called practically all of his own plays. Including a few gems in the legendary Ice Bowl.
Whether on not Elway threw for 30 TD passes in any year adds nothing to the discussion. I watched him, in person, throw 50 yards down field in almost a full sprint. He had a cannon and was a dominant player.
I agree with Biz, if you think Manning is "the best of all time" you're really not that old.
Whether on not Elway threw for 30 TD passes in any year adds nothing to the discussion. I watched him, in person, throw 50 yards down field in almost a full sprint. He had a cannon and was a dominant player.
I agree with Biz, if you think Manning is "the best of all time" you're really not that old.
