Why isn't there some sort of gambling alliance to fight and be heard?

[Woody0]

Politicians don't care about gambling and this is all about protectionism and vested interests. Horse racing and Indian casinos pour millions into campaign contributions. The will of the people, and the special interest group of online gamblers, doesn't have any traction in Washngton.

The only hope seems to be the WTO leading to the elimination of this restraint of trade. WTO should publish their final findings within days and the US has until March for its final appeal. Carruthers also comes to trial in March and is mounting a WTO defence.

 

[Iceman]

Politicians don't care about gambling and this is all about protectionism and vested interests. Horse racing and Indian casinos pour millions into campaign contributions. The will of the people, and the special interest group of online gamblers, doesn't have any traction in Washngton.

The only hope seems to be the WTO leading to the elimination of this restraint of trade. WTO should publish their final findings within days and the US has until March for its final appeal. Carruthers also comes to trial in March and is mounting a WTO defence.

lets get behind them than. Let sign petitions for these people to take to battle. SOMETHING has to be better than nothing.

I am sick and fucking tired of waking up every morning and being scared to even turn on these forums and see what happened next.

Maybe if we got orgainized and fought back than books would fight back also. All we need is momentum!!

 

[SportSavant]

it is impossible to garner support, thats the problem.

the general public will not stand behind your right to bet on sports in the same way they might stand behind your right to get an abortion.

its just not an important issue to most people, and most people find the activity repugnant anyway.

im not saying the fight is a lost cause, because there is alot of hypocracy going on here, but it is a very uphill battle.

 

[BankerC]

Just think how many gamblers out there who have no idea about the forums. There is so many untapped players out there its crazy. The one thing that would get this started is a spokesperson. We need someone who loves to gamble and is well known. The first name that came to my mind is phil mickelson. I doubt his sponsers would let him, but he would be perfect. We could always get Mika Tan. I'm sure she could rally us together, Most here would follow her anywhere. That shit would be crazy, mika leading a protest in front of the white house, with 50k fat,nasty, degenerate, gamblers. Like, Little Michael jackson said, "just call my name, and i'll be there"

 

[Iceman]

it is impossible to garner support, thats the problem.

the general public will not stand behind your right to bet on sports in the same way they might stand behind your right to get an abortion.

its just not an important issue to most people, and most people find the activity repugnant anyway.

im not saying the fight is a lost cause, because there is alot of hypocracy going on here, but it is a very uphill battle.

Not worried about the public as a whole. But we as gamblers need to quit thinking what we are doing is wrong. This cause is not that far one sided, it just needs to be pushed over the edge.

If we get the right people involved to fight for us than we just show our support in anyway possibile than we are doing something.

This stupid well whatever happens happens attitude is what got us all in this mess and it is going to get worse before it gets better if something don't change quiclkly.

One of biggest problems should be how this bill was passed. We should be fighting tooth and nail to have someone bring this up. We got sucker punched big time on this regard and should be at least looked at.

 

[BAGIANT]

People don't want to get involved to get something going. They might WANT something to be done, but they want others to do it for them. That's why we can let some moron keep lining his pockets with money letting a war continue that shouldn't have been started in the first place.

 

[Iceman]

Just think how many gamblers out there who have no idea about the forums. There is so many untapped players out there its crazy. The one thing that would get this started is a spokesperson. We need someone who loves to gamble and is well known. The first name that came to my mind is phil mickelson. I doubt his sponsers would let him, but he would be perfect. We could always get Mika Tan. I'm sure she could rally us together, Most here would follow her anywhere. That shit would be crazy, mika leading a protest in front of the white house, with 50k fat,nasty, degenerate, gamblers. Like, Little Michael jackson said, "just call my name, and i'll be there"

this is what I mean. Who the hell is representing us? Poker has a few down to earth normal joes out there and they single handley changed the whole public perception on how people percieve poker.

What people need to know is that your average everyday guy that goes to work, pays his bills, walks his dog, plays catch with his son like to come home and with a few clicks of the computer bet on a football game. No one is getting hurt here.

 

[BetIt]

The only was politicians listen...is if their jobs are at stake.

Create a big enough alliance..where you factor in elections (similiar to the choice issue, growth issues, etc)....

why do you think senior citizen issues are a focal point in all elections...because they have enough pull and power where what they want...and moreso if they are promised it...determine elections.

 

[Iceman]

People don't want to get involved to get something going. They might WANT something to be done, but they want others to do it for them. That's why we can let some moron keep lining his pockets with money letting a war continue that shouldn't have been started in the first place.

this is why we need leadership form top people in this industry. They speak for us. They lead and we follow. Just like poker has proven. It only takes a few people to get an orgainized plan together and then get the word out.

 

[SportSavant]

http://www.marijuanaparty.com

you may want to take a look at those who are fighting for the right to legalize marijuana as an example.

 

[Iceman]

http://www.marijuanaparty.com

you may want to take a look at those who are fighting for the right to legalize marijuana as an example.

I understand your point but please don't try compare what we do to legalizing Marijuana.

I am telling you if we started to fight back as a group than others will follow but until then places like Mansion are just going to fold up their tent and go home. We need guys like there owner on our side. I am sure he don't want to leave but is scared to fight this alone.

 

[SportSavant]

I understand your point but please don't try compare what we do to legalizing Marijuana.

I am telling you if we started to fight back as a group than others will follow but until then places like Mansion are just going to fold up their tent and go home. We need guys like there owner on our side. I am sure he don't want to leave but is scared to fight this alone.

I wasnt comparing it from a NEGATIVE aspect Iceman, I was comparing it from a POSITIVE one....

people should have the right to do whatever they want with Marijuana just like they do with their own money.... As long as it is done safely and securly and other people are not harmed in the process...

actually, the marijuna movement is much much much stronger than the gambling one.

If you are serious about this, I am serious in my suggestion to take a look at what these people have done to fight the good fight.... I am sure you could get many leads and pointers.

 

[Iceman]

I wasnt comparing it from a NEGATIVE aspect Iceman, I was comparing it from a POSITIVE one....

people should have the right to do whatever they want with Marijuana just like they do with their own money.... As long as it is done safely and securly and other people are not harmed in the process...

actually, the marijuna movement is much much much stronger than the gambling one.

If you are serious about this, I am serious in my suggestion to take a look at what these people have done to fight the good fight.... I am sure you could get many leads and pointers.

sorry. Misunderstood you. Your right at least they are fighting back. What we do is no different than stock trading/investing and those guys are considered wall street genuises!!

 

[SportSavant]

sorry. Misunderstood you. Your right at least they are fighting back. What we do is no different than stock trading/investing and those guys are considered wall street genuises!!

not only are they fighting back, they have formed a political party, and here in Canada get a significant amount of votes aswell....

The Legalize Marijuna movement is quite big, much bigger than the legalize gambling movement (I think)

remember, its not about smoking weed..... its about refusing to allow the government to interfere in our lives, the less interference the better.

This is the marijuna party's official stance.

I hope all gamblers remember this when they view other groups of people struggling with similar freedom issues.

 

[SportSavant]

I understand your point but please don't try compare what we do to legalizing Marijuana.

I must say, your initial reaction really concerns me, and I wonder if it is a widespread thought....

it seems you are not concerned with governemnt interference in peoples lives in general, EXCEPT when it affects you directly (sports betting). Your reaction seemed to indicate that you think their fight is ridiculous. (maybe I read you wrong)

we need to look at this from a MACRO angle, not a MICRO one.... The idea has to be that the people will not tolerate the government interference in our lives, no matter what the issue.

for this to work it is imperative that the gambler supports the pot somkers right to smoke a joint at night in the comfort of their own home, and the pot smoker needs to support the gamblers right to place a bet on sunday.

and so on and so on.....

people are so polarized with issues which is why this never works.... people are so self centered that they only tend to care about their own issues, and wont stand up till there is a personal affront on their own freedoms.

ill bet most gamblers on this site will not agree with the fact that marijuna should be legal... hence the problem we have today.

:ughhh::ughhh::ughhh::ughhh::ughhh::ughhh::ughhh::ughhh::ughhh::ughhh::ughhh::ughhh::ughhh::ughhh::ughhh::ughhh::ughhh::ughhh::ughhh::ughhh:

 

[Iceman]

Going back to work for awhile. Hope some people out there read this and feel today is the day I stand up for myself.

If anyone wants to e-mail me, mods feel free to give away my e-mail.

I have posted something similair at EOG this morning and people are echoing the same thoughts, they don't know where to go or turn. It is sad. We just need leadership from some important people in this industry.

I promise from here forward I will do whatever is asked of me to put up a fight to be heard. That is all we should want. Everyone on here should be doing/thinking the same

 

[sd2]

I dont' have any ties to books...I know the RX does

If we can get a book to help us sponsor something to attract membership....we can go forward from there.

BetIt has it right. This would have to be financed by the books. They're the ones with the most to lose. (Losing one's livelihood is a lot graver than losing one's entertainment or hobby.)

It could be set up as (a) an educational enterprise, to educate the public about privacy, about govt intrusion, about Web freedom from govt, about the right to dispose of one's own assets as one sees fit. All the while pointing out that there is no objection to the US govt legalizing, regulating and taxing it. (Some of the high profile owners of offshore books have said they'd welcome legalization and taxation.)

This would also involve courting the press, issuing press releases, introducng journalists to regular hobbyist bettors who are in fact "the guy next door," and even is some selected cases flying journalists or community leaders down to a luxurious offshore site for some "education." Some writers and opinion-makers will go for this, others no. Some are already sympathetic, esp among sports writers, as like you they too have offshore accounts or with a reliable local.

Or (b) As a lobbying organization, directly pressuring politicians. It would be important to have a skilled lawyer check the legalities. Lobbyists must register, and if it can be proved that the lobbyist is representing a foreign entity, that must be stated. And I don't know if representing something that is legal in a foreign country but illegal in the U.S. is viable.

Or (c) Investigative work, sadly lacking on the scene at present, thus the avalanche of rumors. Going deeper than the stories reported by the mainstream press. Probably also would have to be funded by a consortium of offshore books; I may look into this at some point later this year, to gauge interest.

Again, it's doubtful if there are enough dedicated and well-heeled bettors who could support even one of these endeavors. The gaming websites (like this one) are entertainment centers, and in their own interest will not get involved. Not directly, that is.

Any site that takes ads from the books is likely a non-starter. Then, the conlict of interest is so apparent that a blind man can see it.

I'm intending to henceforward keep my mouth shut on this matter until I can do something concrete. And best wishes to others who understand that an ounce of action is worth a ton of talk. And who are going to take action in a constructive manner. Or who are already doing so.

 

[da1prophet]

Iceman is 100% right about the need for a group/organization representing sports gamblers. Sports gambling as a discipline--whether its a hobby, a job or somewhere in between to you is irrelevent--has done an awful job not only representing themselves in the political arena, but more significantly, perhaps, winning the war of public opinion. When ESPN calls Brandon Lang to represent legalized sports gambling, my point is pretty obvious....

There's a lot of structural problems with how the sports gambling industry (and by this I'm referring to books, players, the entire sportsbetting nexus) has conducted themselves over the past decade that need to be undone. We need to start reshaping public opinion in the US--people frequently say here at the RX that the average American is oblivious to the realities of online gaming and/or sportsbetting and that's the problem.

For one thing, sports bettors need to immedatiately get over this mentality that "poker players are throwing us under the bus". For one, the poker industry owes us nothing. We're responsible for finding our own answers, and to some extent I'd suggest, for the situation we find ourselves in. For another, the poker players are doing what is best for them. If the shoe is was on the other foot, sports gambling would be doing the exact same thing. Basically, we're both in a same boat but they've got a better life raft.

Poker players are enjoying the benefit of years of promoting the game to mainstream America. The predisposition of sports gamblers has always been to "stay underground" but you're not going to make a lot of headway in public opinion that way. Even people who don't play poker have a generally benign if not favorable view toward it, and they view the online gambling ban as unfair for that reason. They don't care about sports gamblers, or if they do have their perception of sports gambling colored by the mainstream media's "take" on it which is almost always negative.

So Iceman is right, but the political war is only half the battle--equally as important is the war for mainstream media and the average American that can only be one through effective PR.

 

[BadCo]

Poker players are united becuase the only alternative they have is to get in the car and sit in a seedy card room and inhale second hand smoke.

Another reason poker is getting a mulligan is rich southern republicans like to play poker,and raise horses for that matter.

Us sports bettors are thier stepchildren.

That and these celeberties and rich southern republicans can bet thier sports via a bookie.

 

[da1prophet]

Poker players are united becuase the only alternative they have is to get in the car and sit in a seedy card room and inhale second hand smoke.

Another reason poker is getting a mulligan is rich southern republicans like to play poker,and raise horses for that matter.

Us sports bettors are thier stepchildren.

That and these celeberties and rich southern republicans can bet thier sports via a bookie.

Poker players are united because they've done a better job of organzing poker players, and a better job of selling poker to the media and the public.

Poker isn't getting a "mulligan" from rich southern republicans or anyone else. They're doing a better job at playing the hand they've been dealt (no pun intended). If I never hear another sports player whining about poker players it'll be too soon--we sound like spoiled children crying because we've broken all of our Christmas toys while our brother hasn't...

Sports players aren't their "stepchildren"--we're irrelevant to them because we made ourselves that way. Poker is acting in their best interests by not concerning themselves with sports players because it makes acheiving their goals more expedient, and what reason in the *world* do they have dragging us along for the ride when they've done all the work in terms of improving their media image, etc?

And there's plenty of rich southern Republicans that like to bet sports offshore. I know plenty of 'em around here....

Bottom line is that if you want to be serious about changing the laws and public opinion, media coverage, etc. You have to quit blaming *our* problems on others. Blaming so and so for doing such and such that got us into the current situation is pointless and counterproductive. Either you play the hand you've been dealt or you get out of the game. Poker players "owe" us nothing, nor should they.