Pipper says LeBron may be the best player EVER to play the game..

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Old guys that played basketball in the 70's don't think Jordan was the greatest.

BINGO!!! I remember when Jordan was putting up massive scoring numbers early in his career. He started getting a lot of hype, then all the naysayers came in with the "he travels on every play" he is a gunner who doesn't pass" and on and on about how Jordan wouldn't win a title because he was just a scorer. Six title later nobody says those things about Jordan anymore.

Decade or so later some kid from Lower Marion gets a ton of hype as the next great thing. Kobe something was his name, everybody started comparing him to Jordan. Couple years go by and the naysayers say is is "just a gunner who shoots too much" yada yada. Along come Phil and Shaq and now Kobe wins a title every year. Shaq leaves lakers have a bad year everyone still says Kobe isn't that great , it was because of Shaq. Then wouldn't you know Kobe goes and wins a couple titles without Shaq now nobody has anything bad to say about Kobe anymore.

Decade later this Lebron kid comes along, all the naysayers ........


Anyone see a pattern developing here?
 

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Willie just curios did you watch hoops in the 90s a lot of nah since celts sucked?

Pip played 1 year of his prime without Mj and was 1 of the only players in history to lead his team in all 5 major cats. They won 55 and got jobbed by hue hollins in game 7. (I see you bringing up refs a lot with celts so why omit this?)

It's not pips fault he only played 1 year w/o Mj in his prime.

Port in 00 he carried to game 7 vs shaq/Kobe.
 

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Ok lets use your argument. Jordan averaged over 31 ppg when he played with Pippen. He only averaged 26 ppg when he played without Pippen.

Come on now, thats a dumb argument to bring up. Most of pippens time without jordan was when he was old and past his prime. He was 34 years old in the 1st season he left chicago. Hell even Jordans numbers started to slide when he hit 32 years old. But the 2 years he played with chicago the 1st time jordan retired were statistically the 2 best years of his career.

Good point. If we are comparing Lebron and Jordan. With Jordan the Bulls there were a championship team and about as good as a team gets. Without him there were still way above average and almost made it to the finals without him.
With Lebron the Cavs had the best record in the league and were on the doorstep of the title a couple years. Without him they are a LAST PLACE TEAM! Then he goes to Miami who were league average last year (with Wade) and now will probably win the title his first year. Spare me any Bosh comments, he is way overrated.
 

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agree 100%

dan-marino.jpg

U can't compare another team sport to hoops - u only have 5 players on the court and they play o and d

And pippen was above average - near the level of a Tony parker - basically just another good player in the NBA - actually he is Lamar odom
 

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U can't compare another team sport to hoops - u only have 5 players on the court and they play o and d

And pippen was above average - near the level of a Tony parker - basically just another good player in the NBA - actually he is Lamar odom

I agree with hoops rings being a way better barometer than other sports but Pippen to Parker/Odom? Wow. For 1 of them 2 to finish 2nd in MVP voting would probably take hell freezing over.
 

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The most dramatic turnabout when a player was added to a team was in Alcindor's first season with Milwaukee as I recall they won the championship that year after about 30 wins the previous year as I recall. Almost as stark a contrast was when Byrd, Duncan & Lebron were added to their respective teams. I don't recall Chicago having as big a turnaround when Jordan joined up but without looking it up I could be wrong!
 

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The most dramatic turnabout when a player was added to a team was in Alcindor's first season with Milwaukee as I recall they won the championship that year after about 30 wins the previous year as I recall. Almost as stark a contrast was when Byrd, Duncan & Lebron were added to their respective teams. I don't recall Chicago having as big a turnaround when Jordan joined up but without looking it up I could be wrong!

FWIW, Drob to the Spurs and Shaq to Orlando are up there.
 

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And who are you claiming is going to the HOF from the '04-'05 Spurs? Duncan and who Parker or Ginobilli? That will be funny.

Yes, Manu is a lock for the HOF.

Why do you think I wrote, for idiots that don't know the BBall HOF takes into account international play.
 

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LeBron responds to Pippen's claims

Posted on: May 28, 2011 7:03 pm


Scottie Pippen seemed to rattle the very foundation of basketball when he claimed that LeBron James may (operative word: may) be better than Michael Jordan. It was a claim that virtually no one on the planet really believes, much less wants to hear.

But Pippen said it and with him knowing MJ as well as anyone, we all had to at least acknowledge the comments and therefore, discuss them to no end. Well, finally we have LeBron's thoughts. Via Yahoo! Sports:

“Mike was an unbelievable player,” James said Saturday. “I got a long way, long way to be mentioned as one of the all-time greats. Not even just Jordan – there are a lot of great players who have played in this league: Larry Bird, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar and all these guys that are floating around with multiple rings. Bill Russell. All of these guys who have pioneered the game for me and [Dwyane Wade].

“I’m gracious, humbled by Scottie’s comments with him being a teammate of his and seeing Michael on a day-to-day basis. But as far as me? I don’t know. I’m not going to sit here and say I’m better than Jordan or if I’m not better than Jordan.”

First part? Great answer LeBron. Bravo. Quality move to acknowledge that not only that you shouldn't be mentioned alongside Jordan, you shouldn't be mentioned alongside about 20 of the all-time greats. Not at this point. Your career is still very young (LeBron is just 26 -- !!!) and you haven't accomplished near enough as a basketball player to have your named spread across with the likes of Jordan, Bird, Russell, Kareem, Magic Johnson or even heck, Scottie Pippen. Not yet.

(And can I point out here how I love how LeBron always misuses words? You're "gracious" by Scottie's comments? He obviously misspoke and it was accidental but he does that a lot. He's trying to answer humbly but the wrong word can confuse things.)

Second part? You started well and then of course you had to go ahead and LeBron your answer by saying you won't say you're as good or not as good. Ugh. You see LeBron, this is why these types of things always come back to get you. You tried to answer this in a humble way. You tried to acknowledge your place. But you aren't the one to determine these things anyway. So just say, "Oh man, I'm not Michael Jordan. Not by a long shot. Maybe one day, if I could get to my dreams. But I have a whole lot to accomplish before then." And leave it at that. Just put a period on it, tie a bow and walk away.

That's why young stars like Derrick Rose and Kevin Durant are so darn refreshing. There's no double-talk. No ego in anything they say. They always -- and I mean always -- let their game do the talking and leave the rest up to everyone else.

I just don't understand why you said you've got a long way to go and then came back and said you're not going to say you're not as good as Jordan. That's the type of stuff that bugs people. One day maybe you'll learn.

Or heck, maybe one day we'll actually have to have this discussion. With LeBron in The Finals chasing that first ring, he could be starting a long run of them. Then we might not be able to say he's not as good as Jordan either.
 

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LeBron responds to Pippen's claims

Posted on: May 28, 2011 7:03 pm


Scottie Pippen seemed to rattle the very foundation of basketball when he claimed that LeBron James may (operative word: may) be better than Michael Jordan. It was a claim that virtually no one on the planet really believes, much less wants to hear.

But Pippen said it and with him knowing MJ as well as anyone, we all had to at least acknowledge the comments and therefore, discuss them to no end. Well, finally we have LeBron's thoughts. Via Yahoo! Sports:

“Mike was an unbelievable player,” James said Saturday. “I got a long way, long way to be mentioned as one of the all-time greats. Not even just Jordan – there are a lot of great players who have played in this league: Larry Bird, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar and all these guys that are floating around with multiple rings. Bill Russell. All of these guys who have pioneered the game for me and [Dwyane Wade].

“I’m gracious, humbled by Scottie’s comments with him being a teammate of his and seeing Michael on a day-to-day basis. But as far as me? I don’t know. I’m not going to sit here and say I’m better than Jordan or if I’m not better than Jordan.”

First part? Great answer LeBron. Bravo. Quality move to acknowledge that not only that you shouldn't be mentioned alongside Jordan, you shouldn't be mentioned alongside about 20 of the all-time greats. Not at this point. Your career is still very young (LeBron is just 26 -- !!!) and you haven't accomplished near enough as a basketball player to have your named spread across with the likes of Jordan, Bird, Russell, Kareem, Magic Johnson or even heck, Scottie Pippen. Not yet.

(And can I point out here how I love how LeBron always misuses words? You're "gracious" by Scottie's comments? He obviously misspoke and it was accidental but he does that a lot. He's trying to answer humbly but the wrong word can confuse things.)

Second part? You started well and then of course you had to go ahead and LeBron your answer by saying you won't say you're as good or not as good. Ugh. You see LeBron, this is why these types of things always come back to get you. You tried to answer this in a humble way. You tried to acknowledge your place. But you aren't the one to determine these things anyway. So just say, "Oh man, I'm not Michael Jordan. Not by a long shot. Maybe one day, if I could get to my dreams. But I have a whole lot to accomplish before then." And leave it at that. Just put a period on it, tie a bow and walk away.

That's why young stars like Derrick Rose and Kevin Durant are so darn refreshing. There's no double-talk. No ego in anything they say. They always -- and I mean always -- let their game do the talking and leave the rest up to everyone else.

I just don't understand why you said you've got a long way to go and then came back and said you're not going to say you're not as good as Jordan. That's the type of stuff that bugs people. One day maybe you'll learn.

Or heck, maybe one day we'll actually have to have this discussion. With LeBron in The Finals chasing that first ring, he could be starting a long run of them. Then we might not be able to say he's not as good as Jordan either.


Excellent post Hache...
 

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Whatever you say. I can now tell how much you know about the game of basketball.

I think your both 1/2 right. On 1 hand Manu is a HOFer but he didn't get until the NBA until he was 27 but yeah he is a HOF caliber player when he was healthy and in his prime. On the other hand, in 2003 it was his first year and Duncan pretty much won that title with roleplayers (this being a down time for the NBA helped that) So titles won in the last 30 years w/o 2 HOF caliber guys I'd say 03 Spurs and 94 Rockets. 04 Pistons is very borderline cause BWallace and Billups both have chances at HOF.

I think sometimes people think HOF means 1 of the best ever and well yeah it kinda does, but also a lot of guys have gone HOF and just been very good like Dumars, Dennis Johnson...I'd put guys like Manu/Billups in that caliber.
 

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Willie just curios did you watch hoops in the 90s a lot of nah since celts sucked?

Pip played 1 year of his prime without Mj and was 1 of the only players in history to lead his team in all 5 major cats. They won 55 and got jobbed by hue hollins in game 7. (I see you bringing up refs a lot with celts so why omit this?)

It's not pips fault he only played 1 year w/o Mj in his prime.

Port in 00 he carried to game 7 vs shaq/Kobe.

I've watched basketball my entire life. There are hundreds of players that have averaged 20 points for a few seasons that don't sniff the HOF. Pippen would be one of them if he didn't play with MJ.

His career sans MJ, from college to post MJ's 2nd retirement, is remarkably unremarkable for a man given so much love.

His career average was 16.1 & 6.4
 
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I've watched basketball my entire life. There are hundreds of players that have averaged 20 points for a few seasons that don't sniff the HOF. Pippen would be one of them if he didn't play with MJ.

His career sans MJ, from college to post MJ's 2nd retirement, is remarkably unremarkable for a man given so much love.

His career average was 16.1 & 6.4

"What? Phil, you're not drawing up the last play for me? Waaaah, I'm going
to sit here on the bench and pout. It's the playoffs but, so what. Yeah, just like I did when I had a headache in game 7 of the conference finals a few years ago. I'll show you."
 

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Whatever you say. I can now tell how much you know about the game of basketball.

You are right, I know a hell of a lot more than you. I will look for you at the NBA finals in the post game presser. Who will you be there working for?
 

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You are right, I know a hell of a lot more than you. I will look for you at the NBA finals in the post game presser. Who will you be there working for?

You know so much more that you think Manu Ginobili is a lock for the NBA HOF. Good grief.

I mean, a lock? Are you serious?
 
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You know so much more that you think Manu Ginobili is a lock for the NBA HOF. Good grief.

I mean, a lock? Are you serious?

manu is a lock for the HOF. what part of the fact its not the 'nba hall of fame' dont you understand?
 

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Tried to explain to that idiot that the basketball HOF is comprised of college/international/NBA achievements. He can't seem to grasp that.

Typical of guys on this board. We disagree about a topic and I'm now and idiot. Some things never change at the RX. Don't discuss the debate, just call a guy an idiot and all is good.
 

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It amazes how much people are willing to give this a discussion where as the kobe comparisons to mike were blown off i remember those topics coming up and we would have 20 pages of kobe being hated... Like i said lebron is a physically gifted athlete probably the best the nba has seen but until he develops a mid range game , any type of post up back to the basket game, a respectable 3 point shot, than i cant put him on the level of kobe and the greats like mj etc

The shaq comparisons are pretty good imagine if lebron and shaq had the work ethic of a kobe or mj how great could they have been that lack of passion for the game, that will to be the best ever is something that will hold them back when tryin g to be compared the the greatest of the game
 

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