I'm sorry guys, Pippen was an average player that didn't help any team get anywhere if MJ was not by his side
he averaged 20+ playing with MJ
about a whopping 13 PPG w/o MJ
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/pippesc01.html
he would have a Donyell Marshall or Chritain Leattner career w/o MJ
good, long, no championships and the HOF? forgetaboutit
he averaged 20+ playing with MJ
about a whopping 13 PPG w/o MJ
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/pippesc01.html
he would have a Donyell Marshall or Chritain Leattner career w/o MJ
good, long, no championships and the HOF? forgetaboutit
I'm relieved no one has inserted the 6 rings Jordan has compared to Lebrons 0 into the debate.That 'ring' stuff is about the silliest argument of all times. Never should be used as a barometer of talent.
Two of baseballs immortals have 0 rings Cobb & Williams. Only Babe Ruth can be reasonably mentioned in the discussion of greatest alltime ballplayers with Williams.
Its a fact that Jordan never won a championship before he teamed up with Pippen, and during Jordans 2 year hiatus Pippen bought the Bulls closer to another championship than Jordan ever did without Pippen.
Both Jordan & Lebron are among the greatest so no one can argue one above the other without hearing responsible contradiction & the offering of 1 or two other names in the debate.
Two of baseballs immortals have 0 rings Cobb & Williams. Only Babe Ruth can be reasonably mentioned in the discussion of greatest alltime ballplayers with Williams.
Its a fact that Jordan never won a championship before he teamed up with Pippen, and during Jordans 2 year hiatus Pippen bought the Bulls closer to another championship than Jordan ever did without Pippen.
Both Jordan & Lebron are among the greatest so no one can argue one above the other without hearing responsible contradiction & the offering of 1 or two other names in the debate.
you wearing your scottie pippen pajamas as you write this?
and jordan did't take his talents somewhere and 'team up' with pippen, so that statement is a little misguided.
and as for scottie taking them deep in the playoffs, wasnt he the guy pouting on the bench when someone else made the winning shot?
But IMO it has to be inserted. You win rings because you involve those on your team and make them better. You win rings because you take control of the game at the most critical point and carry your team to victory. Jordan did that better than anyone in history. You knew the game was over when he had the ball. You kind of hope LJ has the ball at the end if you are pulling for the opposite team because he hasn't proven anything yet.
that's just making shit up now. Pippen didn't sniff a title w/o MJ, never made it out of round 2
Thats a theory that has some merit that I have a tendency to discard. You need a strong team to win championships no one player is instrumental. Stengel was considered a pedestrian manager losing badly with the dodgers & Braves till he won 5 straight World Series with the yanks from 49-53 and did it without any superstars only very good interchangable players. Berra & Mize were the only H of F player thoughout those years & Mize though a contributor was far past his glory days.
'You win rings because you involve those on your team and make them better. You win rings because you take control of the game at the most critical point and carry your team to victory..'
William Weatherford & Nathan Bedford Forrest were perhaps the 2 most skillfull American born military leaders of men who certainly took control of the game at the most critical point, they had their moments, but at the end of the day didn't have the necessary teammates to win the day.
By the way, Dirk had 2 or 3 unstoppable performances I've ever seen in the playoffs, lets see what Lebron can do guarding him if he does! Did Jordan ever have to defend someone as offensively skillfull as Dirk was against OC ?
For EGD, Wylie and Enfuego:
LBJ is a better player than D Wade.
Yes, LBJ has better handles than Kobe.
Yes, LBJ is more talented than Jordan. Ask anyone around the league. Better player, hell NO!
LBJ is an incredible talent who can play multiple positions, but the Kobe and MJ comparasions are a joke at this point.
As for everyone saying he didn't win in Cleveland, since 1980, only 2 teams have won an NBA title without 2 HOF players on their roster, the 1994 Rockets and the 2004 Pistons, every other team has at least 2 current or future HOFs. BTW, like it or not, Pau Gasol will make the HOF, for you idiots that don't know the Basketball HOF takes into account college/international/NBA experience.
Is LBJ stupid and selfish, sure. Is a tremendous talent, no question, but the reason, he will never get to MJ/Magic/Larry level is because mentally he doesn't have the drive that those guys had. He does not possess the refuse to lose mentality that those guys had. He will never shoot the %s that MJ did from the Field or FT line.
LBJ is a better player than D Wade.
Yes, LBJ has better handles than Kobe.
Yes, LBJ is more talented than Jordan. Ask anyone around the league. Better player, hell NO!
LBJ is an incredible talent who can play multiple positions, but the Kobe and MJ comparasions are a joke at this point.
As for everyone saying he didn't win in Cleveland, since 1980, only 2 teams have won an NBA title without 2 HOF players on their roster, the 1994 Rockets and the 2004 Pistons, every other team has at least 2 current or future HOFs. BTW, like it or not, Pau Gasol will make the HOF, for you idiots that don't know the Basketball HOF takes into account college/international/NBA experience.
Is LBJ stupid and selfish, sure. Is a tremendous talent, no question, but the reason, he will never get to MJ/Magic/Larry level is because mentally he doesn't have the drive that those guys had. He does not possess the refuse to lose mentality that those guys had. He will never shoot the %s that MJ did from the Field or FT line.
The Bulls went on to 1994 NBA Eastern Conference Semifinals against the Knicks losing in 7 in games. Did jordan ever go that far without Pippen I'm not sure!
By the way saying Pippen averaged about 13 pts a game without Jordan is misleading. Pippen avg. the same or more points without Jordan during Jordans hiatus more than 20Pts a game. After his prime when he left in Portland the 13 pts
a game might be correct. Jordan didn't make Pippen they were a 1-2 punch with obviously Pippen #2!
that's the 2nd round, who cares if MJ did or didn't do that. The 2nd round, and you argue MJ's 6 championships shouldn't matter, LOL. That's consistency
Pippen never averaged more than 14.5 PPG after MJ retired again. 11 PPG over the last 6 seaons
11 points per game of the last 6 seasons of his career
11 points per game over the last 6 seasons of his career, with a high of 14.5
and once again, not a sniff of anything great
Ok lets use your argument. Jordan averaged over 31 ppg when he played with Pippen. He only averaged 26 ppg when he played without Pippen.
Come on now, thats a dumb argument to bring up. Most of pippens time without jordan was when he was old and past his prime. He was 34 years old in the 1st season he left chicago. Hell even Jordans numbers started to slide when he hit 32 years old. But the 2 years he played with chicago the 1st time jordan retired were statistically the 2 best years of his career.
I agree with most of this. i will however say that james and jordan have really close to the same field goal % for their careers and actually james has taken and made way more 3 pointers than jordan did in his career and he has done so at a slightly higher shooting percentage. Also, selfish isnt a word i would use to describe Lebron. I think he is pretty unselfish really. In cleveland he got killed several times for passing the ball at the end of games.
Agree, Pippen was a great player.. Its silly that anyone says he was average..
when Jordan was out, pippen avg'd 22ppg/8 REB and almost 6 ASST a game.. 2.9 STL's leading the league as well.. thats an average player???
Pippen was constantly avg 20 7 6.
Calling Pippen an average player is just plain wrong.
