Yes Ironlock, wil is just a real comedian. I laugh and laugh all the time. In fact, whenever my partners mention his name, we all laugh. We laugh so hard it hurts. Then we win. I guess since wil got a lucky first half win I should be congradulating him. Great job wil. That was best play ever, I knew you had it at goal line, with 2 seconds left. Was a fg for sure. Ironlock, Thanks for trying to smarten me up. I appreciate your efforts. At least your heart is in the right place. Have a great football season...OF
Froggy you went out of turn, sounds like you are getting all upset again. Just for the record what does a first half win have to do with the conversation? Anyway, like I said try to act like you have been there before if and when you actually pick a game before it starts that wins. Also why not add the source of your somehow imposible to bet anymore numbers. BTW. good luck in the Hilton contest and please try to get your picks in before the deadline.
wil.
wil.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by OMNIVOROUS FROG:
Ironlock, Thanks for trying to smarten me up. I appreciate your efforts. At least your heart is in the right place. Have a great football season...OF <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Take it easy bro. Just trying to help.
By the way, detroit wasn't that tough of a call IMO.
Couple questions though. What part of my post led you to believe that I said Pinnacle is not a good out.
I don't really know you, nor was I aware of the second coming of Billy (LMFAO), but I have to agree that your post seemed more like a misquided attempt to beat your chest, rather than any substantial challenge or contribution to the ongoing dialogue in this thread. Maybe I'm wrong. But your post had little to do with anything said in this thread.
Iron.
Hope you keep winning every week.
Ironlock, Thanks for trying to smarten me up. I appreciate your efforts. At least your heart is in the right place. Have a great football season...OF <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Take it easy bro. Just trying to help.
By the way, detroit wasn't that tough of a call IMO.
Couple questions though. What part of my post led you to believe that I said Pinnacle is not a good out.
I don't really know you, nor was I aware of the second coming of Billy (LMFAO), but I have to agree that your post seemed more like a misquided attempt to beat your chest, rather than any substantial challenge or contribution to the ongoing dialogue in this thread. Maybe I'm wrong. But your post had little to do with anything said in this thread.
Iron.
Hope you keep winning every week.
OF:
You and I shared in our success on the Pistons, against the USA men's hoops team on most games, nice hit with Argentina on the future for you and Andre Ward for me in boxing, but all that said, there are many, many others on the forums that may be struggling at the same time that we are on a streak. Fully recognize that it's nice to celebrate however together why not choose the path of humility. You bring a great deal to the RX. With due respect to your ability, why not leave the chest thumping behind? Let's have a solid season but remain humble in doing so.
You and I shared in our success on the Pistons, against the USA men's hoops team on most games, nice hit with Argentina on the future for you and Andre Ward for me in boxing, but all that said, there are many, many others on the forums that may be struggling at the same time that we are on a streak. Fully recognize that it's nice to celebrate however together why not choose the path of humility. You bring a great deal to the RX. With due respect to your ability, why not leave the chest thumping behind? Let's have a solid season but remain humble in doing so.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by oldmanTED:
OF:
You and I shared in our success on the Pistons, against the USA men's hoops team on most games, nice hit with Argentina on the future for you and Andre Ward for me in boxing, but all that said, there are many, many others on the forums that may be struggling at the same time that we are on a streak. Fully recognize that it's nice to celebrate however together why not choose the path of humility. You bring a great deal to the RX. With due respect to your ability, why not leave the chest thumping behind? Let's have a solid season but remain humble in doing so. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
LOL.! It may just be me, but this post struck me as hilarious. Me too on the pistons, me too, I even bet 2H+3.5, which took extra balls. Had em in the series+700. But lets be humble here, others are losing.
Lot of sharpies in this thread...anyone else notice.
OF:
You and I shared in our success on the Pistons, against the USA men's hoops team on most games, nice hit with Argentina on the future for you and Andre Ward for me in boxing, but all that said, there are many, many others on the forums that may be struggling at the same time that we are on a streak. Fully recognize that it's nice to celebrate however together why not choose the path of humility. You bring a great deal to the RX. With due respect to your ability, why not leave the chest thumping behind? Let's have a solid season but remain humble in doing so. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
LOL.! It may just be me, but this post struck me as hilarious. Me too on the pistons, me too, I even bet 2H+3.5, which took extra balls. Had em in the series+700. But lets be humble here, others are losing.
Lot of sharpies in this thread...anyone else notice.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by FISHHEAD:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by FISHHEAD:
Go with Pinny on these plays
Good luck
pittsburgh +130
seattle +125
VERY surprised if both these dogs were to lose. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
SEATTLE gets the cheese! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Nice one Fish. I took the night off...sheets, sheets, sheets..he hah.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by FISHHEAD:
Go with Pinny on these plays
Good luck
pittsburgh +130
seattle +125
VERY surprised if both these dogs were to lose. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
SEATTLE gets the cheese! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Nice one Fish. I took the night off...sheets, sheets, sheets..he hah.
Ironlock:
In all due respect, you are way off base here. My plays on the Pistons were all posted publicly in the NBA Forum, and my positions on the Olympic men's basketball team stated clearly before the start of the Olympics and posted for each game as well as my future on Andre Ward. As for any halfs, I rarely play on halfs, so I don't know what you are refering too.
I was simply encouraging OF to consider toning things down a little.
In all due respect, you are way off base here. My plays on the Pistons were all posted publicly in the NBA Forum, and my positions on the Olympic men's basketball team stated clearly before the start of the Olympics and posted for each game as well as my future on Andre Ward. As for any halfs, I rarely play on halfs, so I don't know what you are refering too.
I was simply encouraging OF to consider toning things down a little.
I am glad to see someone else getting heat in this thread besides me. BUT as a side bar, Pin DID NOT have the best number on Det in that series. There were better numbers at a few places in town. But that is directly attributed to the LA bias, where you can generally get 1-2 points more on an LA opponent there than you can on the net.
But that is really mixing apples and oranges.
Mixing baseball and spread based sports is one thing, but when you start talking series pricing and correlating odds, Pinnacle is actually not very good at it.
How many series prices do they hang? Almost none. Why? Because they were habitually opening up extreme buy backs when the series were tied. Even with opening up on the hedged numbers they eventually had to follow the market, or REALLY expose themselves.
When they do put up series here and there, they are basically right in line with every other book that does it, and since most people aren't going to bet these types of bets unless they have anedge, Pin sort of won the battle by offering "cloned" numbers. Obviously they could just put up the same numbers as everyone else, but even then it could offer a play before the fact. If one book has Yanks -200 to win the series and -190 in game one, that is one thing, but if Pin clones the -200 line in the series, and they have Yanks -180 or even -200 (semi opiniated but not out of line for them in a game like that) they are opening themselves up.
But again, that is a whole other animal, but when people start discussing sharpness, and what not it has to be mentioned. Probably soccer as well, since soccer is actually probably the most widely bet sport in the world, and probably gets more action than any other sport, except for maybe football, but I would think even soccer is close to that as well.
But soccer odds are ones that are a true test. So that sport may actually be the bench mark to look at when it comes to determining Pin's abilities.
I don't bet soccer, have no clue on how to, but I am sure there are some that do, and know some of the ins and outs, and maybethey could comment on it in here.
But that is really mixing apples and oranges.
Mixing baseball and spread based sports is one thing, but when you start talking series pricing and correlating odds, Pinnacle is actually not very good at it.
How many series prices do they hang? Almost none. Why? Because they were habitually opening up extreme buy backs when the series were tied. Even with opening up on the hedged numbers they eventually had to follow the market, or REALLY expose themselves.
When they do put up series here and there, they are basically right in line with every other book that does it, and since most people aren't going to bet these types of bets unless they have anedge, Pin sort of won the battle by offering "cloned" numbers. Obviously they could just put up the same numbers as everyone else, but even then it could offer a play before the fact. If one book has Yanks -200 to win the series and -190 in game one, that is one thing, but if Pin clones the -200 line in the series, and they have Yanks -180 or even -200 (semi opiniated but not out of line for them in a game like that) they are opening themselves up.
But again, that is a whole other animal, but when people start discussing sharpness, and what not it has to be mentioned. Probably soccer as well, since soccer is actually probably the most widely bet sport in the world, and probably gets more action than any other sport, except for maybe football, but I would think even soccer is close to that as well.
But soccer odds are ones that are a true test. So that sport may actually be the bench mark to look at when it comes to determining Pin's abilities.
I don't bet soccer, have no clue on how to, but I am sure there are some that do, and know some of the ins and outs, and maybethey could comment on it in here.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by oldmanTED:
Ironlock:
In all due respect, you are way off base here. My plays on the Pistons were all posted publicly in the NBA Forum, and my positions on the Olympic men's basketball team stated clearly before the start of the Olympics and posted for each game as well as my future on Andre Ward. As for any halfs, I rarely play on halfs, so I don't know what you are refering too.
I was simply encouraging OF to consider toning things down a little. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I'm not challenging you pal. Good calls.
I just thought it was funny, thats all.
Ironlock:
In all due respect, you are way off base here. My plays on the Pistons were all posted publicly in the NBA Forum, and my positions on the Olympic men's basketball team stated clearly before the start of the Olympics and posted for each game as well as my future on Andre Ward. As for any halfs, I rarely play on halfs, so I don't know what you are refering too.
I was simply encouraging OF to consider toning things down a little. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I'm not challenging you pal. Good calls.
I just thought it was funny, thats all.
My opinion is Pinnacle is a must have out ! I find them sharp, very sharp !
If one bets bases their runlines are tough to shop for a better number, totals also.
Their lines bounce a lot as gametime comes close, often offering a nice price. A true must for baseball. Nice vig offerings, as prices escalate to -500, and beyond.
They are aptly named, they are at the Pinnacle.
With foots and hoops, I often find a better number with a free .5 points.
Pinnacle is here to stay ! They are the future !
What other book is like them ? They have a niche, and volume. They are top-shelf !
Reduced vig, prompt pays, high limits, etc. They are Wal-Mart !
If one bets bases their runlines are tough to shop for a better number, totals also.
Their lines bounce a lot as gametime comes close, often offering a nice price. A true must for baseball. Nice vig offerings, as prices escalate to -500, and beyond.
They are aptly named, they are at the Pinnacle.
With foots and hoops, I often find a better number with a free .5 points.
Pinnacle is here to stay ! They are the future !
What other book is like them ? They have a niche, and volume. They are top-shelf !
Reduced vig, prompt pays, high limits, etc. They are Wal-Mart !
There are some interesting points raised in this thread. Pinnacle lovers=suckers is a bit strong. I think the same could be said for any solid book. If (Insert Any Top Book), is your only out you are going to get killed.
In order to win at any game of chance, you have to have an edge. You have to be able to clearly define your edge. If you're a scalper, that definition is fairly simple. It is much more complex if you're making your own odds line to find lines with value.Regardless of what game you choose, if you can't illustrate what your edge is, you are destined for the black-hole of hopeless losing.
Make no mistake, Pinnacle has an edge you can clearly define. They have vigorish. They have some of the sharpest bettors and originators betting into their offers. Think sharp big bettors like a discount? It is primarily, but not totally, these expert players that form a line that's extremely tough to beat.
Ken posted something very instructional in this thread:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> It would be foolhardy NOT to have PINNY as a significant "OUT," but when they offer you such a great number, I totally agree with your philosophy because they often know something that I don't... Ken <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
The sharps betting into Pinnacle are the ones that have this concealed information....it is reflected in the shop's line.
If Something Looks To Good To Be True, It Most Certainly is at Pinnacle.
In order to win at any game of chance, you have to have an edge. You have to be able to clearly define your edge. If you're a scalper, that definition is fairly simple. It is much more complex if you're making your own odds line to find lines with value.Regardless of what game you choose, if you can't illustrate what your edge is, you are destined for the black-hole of hopeless losing.
Make no mistake, Pinnacle has an edge you can clearly define. They have vigorish. They have some of the sharpest bettors and originators betting into their offers. Think sharp big bettors like a discount? It is primarily, but not totally, these expert players that form a line that's extremely tough to beat.
Ken posted something very instructional in this thread:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> It would be foolhardy NOT to have PINNY as a significant "OUT," but when they offer you such a great number, I totally agree with your philosophy because they often know something that I don't... Ken <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
The sharps betting into Pinnacle are the ones that have this concealed information....it is reflected in the shop's line.
If Something Looks To Good To Be True, It Most Certainly is at Pinnacle.
I've read most of this thread, and I continue to be baffled. I've got no ego, don't claim to be sharp, and really don't give a damn what people think about my sportsbetting abilities. But I am trying to understand what Iron is saying, and I just don't. Being the recreational amateur that I am, these are my thoughts. You handicap games, shop for numbers, weigh your options, and place your bets. Why do you care or need to care what other bettors are betting, or what Pinnacle means when they move a number up or down? If Pinny is too sharp to beat, then wouldn't that mean that most of the time they don't have the best number? That must be what you mean, Iron. That you find much more value at other places. Am I right? Is that why you rarely bet there? Otherwise, it seems that if you can't beat Pinnacle, then you should just fade yourself every time there. But I don't think that's what you mean. It would seem to me though, that if they do have the best number, then you're betting it at Pinnacle. Nobody would pay 110 when they can pay 108. Am I kind of understanding you? Again, I'm just trying to hear what you are saying, don't worry about offending me, cause you won't.
Very interesting, Iron. I am curious as to how markets create value. I know you aren't going to give away your system, but how do you find value, and what does it mean to have value in an efficient marketplace? It seems that it you treat sports much like you probably treat your commodities trading. I don't know that your system would be fun for someone like me, who does this just for fun and maybe to win enough to go to Vegas a couple times a year. But I am curious nonetheless.
Ironlock,
Not only was it great to finally see you in Vegas, but I love reading your contributions again...
If I read you correctly, then I believe you are crazy not to think geting the best number is crucial for being successful at sports betting...
I believe this is an excellent thread...
Lots of good points made...
Ken
Not only was it great to finally see you in Vegas, but I love reading your contributions again...
If I read you correctly, then I believe you are crazy not to think geting the best number is crucial for being successful at sports betting...
I believe this is an excellent thread...
Lots of good points made...
Ken
This is my system.
On Tuesdays: Bet any team that is -3-120.
On Wednesday: Bet any team that is 6-110
On Thursday: Bet the over in the College Game.
On Friday: Go watch high school football.
On Saturday: Alternate between Over and Under for the noon games. Bet all overs in the Big 10. Bet all unders in Pac 10.
On Sunday: (If I'm behind) Bet same amount on the Dolphins.
(If Ahead) Bet a little on the Dolphins under.
Monday night: Take the home dog, or the home favorite if more than 6 1/2. If less, bet the under.
Thats it pal. Bet at Cris though...cause pinnacle has Miss Cleo running the lines, and she is one tough cookie to crush.
Iron.
On Tuesdays: Bet any team that is -3-120.
On Wednesday: Bet any team that is 6-110
On Thursday: Bet the over in the College Game.
On Friday: Go watch high school football.
On Saturday: Alternate between Over and Under for the noon games. Bet all overs in the Big 10. Bet all unders in Pac 10.
On Sunday: (If I'm behind) Bet same amount on the Dolphins.
(If Ahead) Bet a little on the Dolphins under.
Monday night: Take the home dog, or the home favorite if more than 6 1/2. If less, bet the under.
Thats it pal. Bet at Cris though...cause pinnacle has Miss Cleo running the lines, and she is one tough cookie to crush.
Iron.
Iron, I can only assume that by looking for "value" you are talkiing strictly football here.
In basea they have the best lines 75% of the time one way. So if you are not betting into Pin's lines you are not getting the "best value".
But if you say that you are using Pin's numbers as a bnechmark and taking the better number anti-Pin, then you must have more magic than me, because I have yet to find a way to determine (fool proof) when or even IF Pin is begging on a number and thus it is a "loser". But when they have the best numbers both ways it is hard for me to see if they are getting more action one way, backing one side or anther, or simply hanging a number that is better by deafult due to their lower holds.
There are the obvious ones that stick out BECAUSE they go off track, but even on those I have not found a pattern. When I get back to Vegas and see all my back resords I will double check it all, but back in June when I was there I wnet through most of it when this debate flared up thean, and didnt see anything concrete.
But that is the beauty of bases, the MLs can make it easy to win being right only 45-50% of the time. So even if you are "wrong" more than half the time you can still profit.
In basea they have the best lines 75% of the time one way. So if you are not betting into Pin's lines you are not getting the "best value".
But if you say that you are using Pin's numbers as a bnechmark and taking the better number anti-Pin, then you must have more magic than me, because I have yet to find a way to determine (fool proof) when or even IF Pin is begging on a number and thus it is a "loser". But when they have the best numbers both ways it is hard for me to see if they are getting more action one way, backing one side or anther, or simply hanging a number that is better by deafult due to their lower holds.
There are the obvious ones that stick out BECAUSE they go off track, but even on those I have not found a pattern. When I get back to Vegas and see all my back resords I will double check it all, but back in June when I was there I wnet through most of it when this debate flared up thean, and didnt see anything concrete.
But that is the beauty of bases, the MLs can make it easy to win being right only 45-50% of the time. So even if you are "wrong" more than half the time you can still profit.
