Palmer vs Ben Roth-Who's better?

[Matt24]

You should keep it at one TV, that way you can see what is going on. Next year we will have our answers. It is fun to root for who you like. No hard feelings, but Big Ben can go the Hall of Fame.

dude i like Ben as a QB. wtf?????????????????????????

 

[Matt24]

Ok, against Pitt Carson did not have a good game, he was very streaky. That was a deceiving stats game and even still he threw 2 INT's and fumbled 3 times in that game. When he got sacked 4 times by Cleveland he did throw for 352 yards but also threw another 2 INT's. Against New England he was sacked 4 times but lost 2 fumbles and had a mediocre passing day. Against Indy again he was sacked 4 times and fumbled the ball 4 times in another mediocre passing day. My point is that people tend to look at only the INT side but don't see the fumbles of a QB (thus the Brooks and Culpepper analogies)

This year Big Ben had 23 INT's and 6 fumbles with 2 lost fumbles in an admittedly bad year. However, if you look at Palmer's turnover numbers you can see they aren't much better. Palmer had 13 INT's but 15 fumbles with 7 of them lost. 15 fumbles!!!! Almost one a game at that average. When Palmer sees a rush coming he shits the bed and fumbles, whereas Big Ben will either take a hit and make the play or scramble and make the play. How many times have you seen Carson Palmer turn nothing into something? I can't recall but one or two. Now how many times have you seen Big Ben turn nothing into something? This happens usually once or twice a game. Big Ben can make the plays Carson can't.

Finally, Ben has shown that he can show up when it matters. He was superb in the playoffs last year and that game against Denver was one of the best games I've ever see any QB play. What happened when Carson needed 1 measly win in his last 3 games this season? Loss, loss, loss.

Give me the QB that will show up when it counts, give me the QB that knows how to manage a game, give me the QB that can make plays on his own, give me the tough sonuvabitch who will take a hit to complete a pass. Give me #7 any day of the week.

yes Carson did fumble a lot last year, but i dont nkow about shitting the bed, he took bunches of big hits, and I mean bunches, remember 4 OLine starters were out for a lot of the season. He only fumbled 7x previous 2 seasons with 4 lost fumbles.

Ben threw 23 ints this year, is he not doing that in the face of a rush? or is that just standing with perfect pass protection and throwing strikes to opposing players?

 

[dialitup]

yes Carson did fumble a lot last year, but i dont nkow about shitting the bed, he took bunches of big hits, and I mean bunches, remember 4 OLine starters were out for a lot of the season. He only fumbled 7x previous 2 seasons with 4 lost fumbles.

Ben threw 23 ints this year, is he not doing that in the face of a rush? or is that just standing with perfect pass protection and throwing strikes to opposing players?

Ben is the best. I deal in facts. We will revisit this next October, when the first part of the season is in the bag. Until then the facts will have to win out. Ben wins, unless I notify the board otherwise.

 

[Syklone]

Ben gets a lot of hate, and I have no idea why. Too much eaarly success?

Ben can be one of the greats, but he needs to get his head together. He's the last one to get to practice and the first one to leave, and rarely studies film. He's young and cocky and has yet to learn how to play QB in the NFL.

Look at their respective records as starters. Case closed.

 

[WRXtypeRA]

hmm. tough question. well lets see, we can either go with the player who will go down in history as the worst to ever win a superbowl. or who was rated the best college player, when they were both still in school.

no contest

 

[HarryCaray]

Ben is the best. I deal in facts. We will revisit this next October, when the first part of the season is in the bag. Until then the facts will have to win out. Ben wins, unless I notify the board otherwise.

You're a fucking moron, until I notify the board otherwise...:howdy:

 

[gynecologist]

Ben can be one of the greats,

Are you serious?

but he needs to get his head together. He's the last one to get to practice and the first one to leave, and rarely studies film. He's young and cocky and has yet to learn how to play QB in the NFL.

Look at their respective records as starters. Case closed.

Case closed what? If you really look at W/L records to compare QBs then you are nuts. There is 11 players on both sides of the ball giving that much credit to one player is insane..

Anyone who knows anything about football will tell you the defense was the main reason for the Steelers good records in 04/05 and 05/06..

 

[steaktartar]

in bens defense he probably should of sat out whole year last season....that motorcycle incident was very very serious and he played like it....have this poll in two more years i think would be fair

 

[Dr.Knowitall]

Well I will refrain from asking my next question, which is why are you being such an asshole.

I went to college at Miami (OH) at the same time as BB, and watched 10+ of his college games live. I also have watched MANY of his pro games including every snap of every playoff game he has ever played in. I consider myself a BB fan.

I am also not a Bengals fan by any stretch, as I grew up in Illinois and am a life-long Bears fan.

That said, I voted Carson, based on sheer quarterbacking ability.

Any other questions?

Just goes to show you that somebody that watches the games still isn't able to tell if a player is good or not. Big Ben is a great QB and will only get better.

There's no way I would take Palmer over Big Ben this year, last year and 5 years from now.

 

[Cubsmac]

Trent Dilfer and Brad Johnson won Superbowls as well..

BigBen did nothing to help his team win the Superbowl 40..

9-21 123yds 0TDs 2INTs

Yeah he really won the game for them...

Think you misunderstood what I was trying to communicate. By no means do I think Ben is great or even a good QB. I wouldnt want him on my favorite team (Browns) if that gives you an idea how I think of him.

I was saying Superbowl chamipionships will define the "greats of the greats" was more refering to someone like Marino not being in the same class as Montana/Elway soley because of the lack of a championship. It essentially is a line drawn seperating the great QBs and the great QB's who won the big one.

My point was not that Ben is great because he won a championship, just refuting that Dante thought 99% of NFL fans judge talent by the # of rings. I was just pushing through the point that, while after you retire a superbowl championship might help seperate you from others in your talent level, fantasy football stats play a much larger part for current players and the avg NFL fans idea of their abilities and talents.

 

[Cubsmac]

Look at their respective records as starters. Case closed.

This cannot be the base of your any argument when comparing QB's. See Rex Grossman this year and Kyle Orton last year.

 

[Dr.Knowitall]

They both suck and the team still won. What's your point?

 

[Cubsmac]

They both suck and the team still won. What's your point?

You are making my point exactly. The person I quoted orignally was using team record as his reasoning for why Ben is better than Palmer.

I am saying you cannot use this to prove anything about qb talent level, as Grossman and Orton both have great records as starters in the league, but I am pretty sure most would take 15-20 qb's over Grossman and 50+ qb's over Orton.

 

[Dr.Knowitall]

True

 

[JohnnyMac]

Think you misunderstood what I was trying to communicate. By no means do I think Ben is great or even a good QB. I wouldnt want him on my favorite team (Browns) if that gives you an idea how I think of him.

You must work in the Brown's front office.

 

[Gambler101]

Matt...trent was better then payton if you count Superbowls which is what the NFL fans judge you on

all things even now we KNOW manning is way better he has a ring and much better stats and probably will get more rings in his career

again this is how 99% of the fans judge you in the nfl.. IMO

Dan Marino was the shit.....but no bling. Peyton has the ring now because yes - he is an outstanding QB but he really needs to thank Grossman. Let's not powder Peyton's nuts just yet....

P.s. - Didn't know that "probably" counted with NFL fans....or bookies for that matter

 

[deadmoney72]

Happy 32nd Bday Carson.....

1979 - Carson Palmer, American football player

 

[JohnnyMac]

I love looking back and seeing how right I was four years ago.