Mansion Sportsbook: Did these guys have a plan after all?

[WalkofLife]

TeaserFreak, thanks a bunch for your post. You have an interesting theory.

Pat, thanks for stopping by... I tend to agree with your opinion.

Not too long ago, there was a discussion at MW... after much discussion, there was an interesting post on page 3 by a new poster by the name 'majormothersclub'... here's the quote:

Mansion does have money behind them beleive it or not but why not find out for yourself. Why don't you call them, ask for a manager and then ask who owns it. If he won't answer ask why. Then do a search on whatever you find. Those who have done their research know Mansion has money. If Mansion cease operation players will be paid.

Now those who are making wild claims about 'canbet rejects' etc and how it's the same guys responsible for the downfall of the canbet giant have no idea whatsoever and are acting irresponsably when presenting their own uninformed theory of events on a public forum as fact. Those who say Canbet never made money have understandably been swindled by the same shrewd high stake kiwi businessmen that were really responsible for Canbet's demise. Canbet Bookmaker was a whole owned subsid. of Canbet LTD. Canbet LTD lost money. Canbet bookmaker's (betting arm of the company) agressive approach was making it plenty at it's peak before it moved to UK. It was turning over about 1/2 BIllion US and winning on target about 1.8% of turnover. The mastermind of this strategy, Michael Tomeny, would have had it at 1% if he was allowed. The strategy is simple. Have the lowest odds and allow some clients to win in exchange for their info. You have to be good to do this not just anyone and a lot of people with a lot of money will agree Tomeny is one of the top sportsbetting minds around. Then you do everything online with low overheads and the right software and when you reach critical mass and the right mix of smart/mug bets the money rolls in at a low but predictable win %. (note you don't need expensive linesmakers to do this. Just decent bookmakers. Any opener that's close will do, soon your info will pound it into shape ready for the countless mugs coming for the -105)

You need a lot of money to start this which is why Sky City were needed as investors. They liked the idea at first but got greedy after a while when they saw win % of the likes of Sportingbet, Ladbrokes, William Hill, Centrebt etc. and started getting greedy. For high level businessmen (Canbet was just a toy for these guys) and very successful casino operators it's surprising they failed to grasp Tomeny's concepts. When Canbet moved to England Tomeny and Sky City butted heads, they figured they could get someone just as good or better for the same money and were convinced they just could just tweak up the juice and beat off the 'wiseguys' without shattering the whole model. They soon discovered it's not as easy as putting another 0 on a roulette whell. They can't say they weren't warned. When Tomeny left he took his key staff with him and that, posters, is why Canbet ran into the ground.

So since that time , determined to create the world's biggest sportsbetting service in his own image, Tomeny kept the model and looked for a serious investor that would embrace the necessary principles. He found one, and now we have mansion. If you want to know who the investor is go find out for yourself. The management names are on the site. David Dent is one of the most successful marketers for this industry and only works for mansion now and he has also been slagged at this site for no reason. I bet none of you guys know who owns Pinnacle either because you havn't bothered to look. This is a serious player not just here to throw a bonus to some suckers to lay -110 in this day and age.

Right after that, Sky Masterson -established ultra-sharp poster- posted the following questions:

MMC,

You seem to have quite a lot of knowledge of this situation so let me ask you a few questions:

1. Is the backer of Mansion a Singaporean cigarette magnate?
2. Are you aware of how much money he has lost gambling in the past?
3. Has he paid the debt of $9m that he owed a very prominent UK bookmaker?
4. If not (and I believe the answer to be no) do you think that he is a trustworthy person to be owning a book and that everyone will get paid in the end if it goes into the red?

Regards,

Sky

The questions were left unanswered, but they're still valid.

Again, I'm just trying to compile as much info as possible and actual experiences from players.

In the end, players will be able to read and make an educated choice based on the many arguments we will have in the thread...

 

[DarrylParsons]

Patrick,

Nicely said. Deep pockets but short arms...very profound indeed. Not to say these guys will be like that but you are right in that it happens all the time, especially in parts of the world where communists rule the day.

Also to see that Kosar, who to me is obviously a highly intelligent and experienced player, is avoiding them, my antennae are high up.

 

[WalkofLife]

Halifax posted this beauty @ the OGD:

Have Mr. & Mrs. Euro-Arber Been Beating Mansion ?

Apparently, they have.

So it seems Mansion is not making any money from the European punters/arbitragers. For a new book they sure are displaying an eccentric behaviour... they're losing money as if they like to throw it away... how deep are the pockets, though?

These are some things I found interesting:

Despite this they are much tighter than their opening weeks and have dropped many of the offerings on the exchange. Their line moves have speeded up so they appear headed in the right direction (from a bookie point of view). However at the moment I can't see them being profitable without having had a huge slice of luck.

Even if their owner is a billionaire this is no guarentee of being paid if things go wrong. The laws are such that it is easy for a parent company/owner to slip out the door unscathed once a company goes into administration. They would have no obligation to pay, it would be a question of personal ethics of the owner.

Well I dont trust them. There have been numerous opportunities to arb between the sportsbook and the exchange this week. If they are the same company (as they lead us to believe) then its a road to disaster.

ACW posted the answers to Sky Masterson's questions at MW:

1. No, he is Indonesian-Chinese, but once got caught by Singaporean police for bookmaking.
He may have a Singaporean passport though, but is normally not referred being one.
2. Yes, he lost about US$900,000,000. Most of it has ended into the pockets of Harry the Dog.
(Yes, Harry is smart. The best gambler in the world). Their average bet against each other is
about US$10,000,000, so Harry is about 90 units in front now. Harry’s usual transportation
is by helicopter by the way.
3. It was more like US$50,000,000. Has all been paid!
4. God knows!

Knowing ACW, this gotta be some caustic sense of humor at its best... <!--emo&-->

 

[WalkofLife]

Alright guys, I intend this one to be my last post on this topic. I’d hate to drive this thread to overkill; so let’s wrap it up and post some conclusive points:

<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" /><o> </o>

• Mansion Sportsbook is using a business model unlikely to generate revenue under its current schemes.
• Mansion Sportsbook is not an operation that has been time tested, as they have only been in operation for a short period of time.
• Based on the feedback we have gotten from players, we can say Mansion Sportsbook is losing money at least on the American and European fronts on a daily basis.
• Quote: “Even if their owner is a billionaire this is no guarantee of being paid if things go wrong. The laws are such that it is easy for a parent company/owner to slip out the door unscathed once a company goes into administration. They would have no obligation to pay; it would be a question of personal ethics of the owner.”<o></o>
• At this time and under these circumstances, risk management skills are absolutely necessary if you’re playing @ Mansion Sportsbook.<o></o>

<o> </o>

I’ll close with a very wise statement from Brett @ MW:

<o> </o>

“Here are my experiences there. I have a comfort zone for my balance there. I start the day with it. I usually bet my entire balance on most days. If I end the day a decent winner there, I draw down to my comfort level before I go to bed. This has probably happened at least 10 times. I have always waken up and been paid in full.”<o></o>

<o> </o>

I’d like to thank all the sharp players that have contributed with their comments and experiences to create this thread as a point of reference.

Peace out.

 

[Doug]

The pockets of Mansion seem very deep indeed, they appear committed to this venture, even a couple of years later. I doubt they are profitable at present. They have acted in a very honorable manner to date.

 

[royalfan]

The pockets of Mansion seem very deep indeed, they appear committed to this venture, even a couple of years later. I doubt they are profitable at present. They have acted in a very honorable manner to date.

Hey Doug, are you a fan of Mansion by chance? Lol.

 

[wilheim]

Royalfan

I have been working hard to get Mansion back as a Rx. sponser but I think they feel why pay when they get all this free publicity.



wil.:drink:

 

[royalfan]

Not sure who loves what more. Viking/Pujols or Doug/mansion. At least this is appropriate subject matter for a major offshore forum.

 

[Doug]

I have been working hard to get Mansion back as a Rx. sponser but I think they feel why pay when they get all this free publicity.



wil.:drink:

Since Mansion presents itself as an exchange, when in fact it is a book they should welcome all comers, at least they should if they are actually an exchange. Take on all the RX'ers with 10 dime paper bets, get commission.

All I know is there not a single complaint against these guys.

 

[Journeyman]

Not sure who loves what more. Viking/Pujols or Doug/mansion. At least this is appropriate subject matter for a major offshore forum.

that is a close call :missingte

 

[wilheim]

Doug..

My point is it is hard for The Rx. to interest a sponser in paying for a banner when they already get a ton of free publicity by threads like the one you just started.

I know a lot of Rxers like Mansion so I try to give them some leeway but at the same time we have to remember the books that pay to keep the site operating and be fair to them whenever possible.

The line is fine between allowing free discussion by posters about all sportsbooks and censorship of the same posters because they may take advantage of that freedom to delibrately promote a book for free here at The Rx.

I honestly feel your interest in Mansion is healthy and in the best interests of your fellow posters.



wil.

 

[beetman]

It's real tough to be "fair" to books like nine.com who openly say "We only take action from recreational bettors, a recreational bettor is someone who could play either side of the game once the line is out." If books don't want syndicate action, that's one thing, but a book with that philisophy is an absolute joke of a book.

:monsters-

 

[wilheim]

Beetman - I heard you the first time in the nine.com thread.


wil.

 

[beetman]

LOL. The fact that the moderators have to chastise people for repeating direct quotes made by nine.com on this board says it all.

 

[wilheim]

Beetman, sorry if you feel chastised, you don't like Nine.com - I get it.

The fact is some players enjoy playing there and you insult those players by constantly referring to the book as a joke. The Offshore landscape is filled with many different sportsbook operating models and Nine.com's model is aimed at the recreational player, not screen watchers or wise guy move players. They do have the right to operate their book as they see fit. They happen to advertise here so natrually I don't treat them as a joke.

This thread started out about Mansion and is now on it's way to being hijacked by a discussion about Nine.com.


wil.

 

[OMNIVOROUS FROG]

Doug, quit shilling for Mansion for free. The RX needs another sponsor to replace 9.com.


Best Wishes...OF

 

[wilheim]

Frog, how did you end up up off the reservation?



wil..

 

[OMNIVOROUS FROG]

I wanted to help out to get the thread back on Mansion. So I posted a tie in. You know me wil, now that I have done my free public service for the RX, segway back to Mansion, I can continue my free range FROG hopping. I would even post at Raiders shithole, but I am afraid all of the turds would get caught in my webbed feet. Thanks for the shirts, I will get them sooner than later now. Your old past posting pal...

Best wishes...OF :howdy:


I am trying to incorporate more sincerity into my close. Do you feel my love wil?

 

[wilheim]

I did my best to get you some shirts...Hopefully you will get them soon.

Frankly I am hoping Mansion does come back here as an advertiser in the near future.


Best, wil..

 

[gbogo]

frog ill second that idea - longevity is important - id bet on mansion over nine anyday of the week

i worked in wholesale treasuries before where im clearing for hedgefunds etc

if my turnover is 100 mio a day how do i pay for my salary the corporate sales guys salary and all the odds and ends in technology and information feeds -- the answer is simple you have to get bigger and do more volume you got to turnover 1 bio or more.

this is how i see sportsbooks you need all sorts of players in the long run otherwise your business has too many ebbs and flows - and if all you have is the 20 dollar bettors all day may as well forget it