I'll say it.. Roy Halladay is a top 15 pitcher of all time.

[Riv34]

He's one of the best I've ever seen play, I'm only 24 fwiw, but with what he's done before he was a Philly, and now what he's done this season...it's tough...he's top 25 for sure.

in regards to the 300 wins, you never know...what if he doesn't get a ring this year, which he won't (Yankees!), and doesn't get one soon. If that is what drives him he could pitch forever, we'd always take him in NY when he's past his prime :lol:

 

[WorldNumberOne]

eck made a good comparison .. he's maddux + about 8 or 9 miles per hour..

 

[seanm0520]

As a die-hard Philly fan since I was a kid, I'm honestly losing it right now. What a year to watch. He WILL retire a Phillie now. No question about it.

 

[ChrisParadise]

im a huge Reds fan and hated to lose the game but wow - that was truly a pleasure to watch some great pitching.

 

[billhill999]

I'm a pitcher guy myself, I prefer 2-1 duels over 11-8 slugfests.
That was one of the greatest games I ever saw pitch.
Moose's near perfecto against the Sox was one of the greatest I ever saw pitched, but that was regular season, when I was a kid I saw Britt Burns for the White Sox pitch a 1 hitter and lose to the New York Yankees Dave Righetti with a 2 hitter live at the stadium, that was one of the greatest games I ever saw pitch up until tonight.
Burns lost 1-0 like this, walk, balk to second, single up the middle.
That was it.
1-0

 

[trytrytry]

i saw Santana in minnesota do things for 5-6 years I could not believe...it can swing on a guy -- longevity is not a given......but today was just so special for him to do that for his team and all the fans of sports! 3 cheers!

 

[joebatters]

Awesome....that is a damn good lineup Cincinnati has. They lead the NL in runs scored.
Just incredible.

 

[mpacman]

Being from Toronto, i;ve watched halladay for a long time. He'd been that good ever since and very very underrated. I remember his final year in jays where he almost threw a perfect game against the sox but a late hit on the top of 9th prevented it (too bad he'd done it in phils). Lacks of publicity of his games(due to being in Canada) made him lil underrated to American viewers. He is great pitch to hit type of pitcher that makes him sufficient on his IP. GO PHILLS!

 

[Enfuego]

Threads like this are very entertaining started because a guy plays a great game on a Wednesday night. There's the Jay Bruce will top Ken Griffey Jr on the HR list thread and it goes on and on.

Halladay is top 15 all time? I can name 5 right now that we've seen that were much better.

R. Johnson - Simply the most dominating pitcher I've seen play.
R. Clemens - Cheat but oh well.
P Martinez - A little greeeezy but oh well.
G Maddux - All class and master of location. Simply a pleasure to watch play.
M. Rivera - Who doesn't know it's over when he comes in the game?

These are only 5 guys. Halladay is good but maybe top 40 is more like it.

 

[billhill999]

Threads like this are very entertaining started because a guy plays a great game on a Wednesday night.

You make it sound like it was a routine Wednesday night against the Royals in June.
Dude, this was bright light, big stage, big city.

Secondly, this was not a fluke, he pitched that perfecto earler, and came close few other times before that.
Right now, name a better starter in the league, both leagues?

Thirdly, I did not put him in the top 15 all time, but he is not a 'maybe' top 40, he is a top 40 all time, maybe top 25, and that's where I put him right now, on the bottom end of a top 25 pitcher list of the modern era.

Hey, I didn't say he was better than Pedro or Maddux, I say you have to put him in the same sentence, well you don't, but I do.
Pedro and Maddux are the two best pitchers of my generation, used to have Clemens in that group, no more given what I know now.
You can't put Rivera in the mix, he's a closer, the reason why he is a closer is because he couldn't hack it as a starter, you want to start a thead about the greatest 15 closers of all time, Rivera is the first word out of my mouth.

I'll assume you know about ERA's, league ERA's WHIP ratio's and such, so just click this link, his numbers a far better than you think they are.
His numbers are jaw dropping, eye popping good.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/h/hallaro01.shtml

 

[WorldNumberOne]

Threads like this are very entertaining started because a guy plays a great game on a Wednesday night. There's the Jay Bruce will top Ken Griffey Jr on the HR list thread and it goes on and on.

Halladay is top 15 all time? I can name 5 right now that we've seen that were much better.

R. Johnson - Simply the most dominating pitcher I've seen play.
R. Clemens - Cheat but oh well.
P Martinez - A little greeeezy but oh well.
G Maddux - All class and master of location. Simply a pleasure to watch play.
M. Rivera - Who doesn't know it's over when he comes in the game?

These are only 5 guys. Halladay is good but maybe top 40 is more like it.

ya , everything was just based on this one game.. he aint done shit up til wednesday night. i said i was exagerating a little.. i will say this though , halladay will blow by pedro in the minds of baseball experts sooner than later.. i can see him winning 20 a year for the next 5 years..

 

[Enfuego]

You make it sound like it was a routine Wednesday night against the Royals in June.
Dude, this was bright light, big stage, big city.

Secondly, this was not a fluke, he pitched that perfecto earler, and came close few other times before that.
Right now, name a better starter in the league, both leagues?

Thirdly, I did not put him in the top 15 all time, but he is not a 'maybe' top 40, he is a top 40 all time, maybe top 25, and that's where I put him right now, on the bottom end of a top 25 pitcher list of the modern era.

Hey, I didn't say he was better than Pedro or Maddux, I say you have to put him in the same sentence, well you don't, but I do.
Pedro and Maddux are the two best pitchers of my generation, used to have Clemens in that group, no more given what I know now.
You can't put Rivera in the mix, he's a closer, the reason why he is a closer is because he couldn't hack it as a starter, you want to start a thead about the greatest 15 closers of all time, Rivera is the first word out of my mouth.

I'll assume you know about ERA's, league ERA's WHIP ratio's and such, so just click this link, his numbers a far better than you think they are.
His numbers are jaw dropping, eye popping good.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/h/hallaro01.shtml

I'm not saying Halladay isn't a good pitcher. He's not just an average pitcher by any stretch. My comment was based on the fact that posters tend to inflate the worth of players or the importance of games on this board because they're "in the moment" watching the game unfold. This game (with the extra series added in Wild Card etc.) is no where close to as important as the Don Larsen gem. Not a fluke at all but I will tell you Felix Hernandez is a better pitcher at a very young age over Roy Hallady. If Hernandez played for the Phillies this year he might be 26-3 and that's not even a joke.

In one single stretch Randy Johnson was the most dominating pitcher in the game. He was feared by every hitter in the box. You can't say that about Pedro and Maddux. I mean, hitters were scared to face him.

Johnson - 303 Career Wins, 3.29 ERA, 4,875 Strikeouts and 5 Cy Youngs
Martinez - 219 Career Wins, 2.93 ERA, 3,154 Strikeouts and 3 Cy Youngs
Maddux - 355 Career Wins, 3.16 ERA, 3,371 Strikeouts and 4 Cy Youngs

Given those numbers.. there's no way Martinez is better than Johnson or Maddux. No way.

Also, to not consider Rivera is a mistake. He's the greatest closer of all time and it has nothing to do with not cutting it as a starter. How many games would the Yanks have lost without him? How many less WS rings?

 

[WorldNumberOne]

halladay has been " in the moment " for about 8 years...

 

[Enfuego]

halladay has been " in the moment " for about 8 years...

What does that even mean?

Let me ask you this. Do you put him in front of any of the following?

P Martinez
R Johnson
G Maddux
J Smoltz
R Clemens
T Seaver
N Ryan
C Schilling
T Glavine
S Carlton

Those are 10 pitchers he's not better than and it took me 3 minutes to come up with that list. So let me add:

W. Johnson
Satchell Paige
B Feller
S Koufax
B Gibson

And you're saying he's honestly better than any of those guys on that list? Come on now. He's a good player but he's honestly not even a sure-fire HOF pitcher yet.

 

[WorldNumberOne]

like i said , i exagerated by saying top 15 . its not an exageration to think he could be top 15 when his career is over. the guy is 151-69 since 2002, which is basically when his career started . 8 of those 9 years with an average toronto team in the same division as ny and bos.

he is the best pitcher in the 2000's

the thread wasnt started because of 1 start. it was started in the 4th inning and because the guy is a stud.

when its all said and done , the guy will be mentioned in the same sentence with the top pitchers in history. in my opinion.

 

[CoachCB]

He's a hell of a pitcher and has done 2 things in 1 season that only 1) 19 other pitchers in the history of baseball have done (perfect game) and 2) throw a no-hitter in a playoff game, a feat done by him and 1 other pitcher.

I don't know that - at this time - he's a "top 15" pitcher of all time. If he plays another 7-10 years he could be.

In my lifetime (I'm 40....I know....I know...."I'm a MAN!"), I'd say:

Maddux
Clemens
R. Johnson
Steve Carlton
Nolan Ryan
P. Martinez
Glavine

(at least these) are as good or better.

Pitching in Toronto, I think he was not in the spotlight very much. He's there now and shining brightly.....

---

 

[Enfuego]

He's a hell of a pitcher and has done 2 things in 1 season that only 1) 19 other pitchers in the history of baseball have done (perfect game) and 2) throw a no-hitter in a playoff game, a feat done by him and 1 other pitcher.

I don't know that - at this time - he's a "top 15" pitcher of all time. If he plays another 7-10 years he could be.

In my lifetime (I'm 40....I know....I know...."I'm a MAN!"), I'd say:

Maddux
Clemens
R. Johnson
Steve Carlton
Nolan Ryan
P. Martinez
Glavine

(at least these) are as good or better.

Pitching in Toronto, I think he was not in the spotlight very much. He's there now and shining brightly.....

---

A guy by the name of Mark Whiten once hit 4 HR's in a game and drove in 12 RBIs. Both of these tied single-game major league records. That doesn't make him a top 15 MLB OF.

 

[Enfuego]

like i said , i exagerated by saying top 15 . its not an exageration to think he could be top 15 when his career is over. the guy is 151-69 since 2002, which is basically when his career started . 8 of those 9 years with an average toronto team in the same division as ny and bos.

he is the best pitcher in the 2000's

the thread wasnt started because of 1 start. it was started in the 4th inning and because the guy is a stud.

when its all said and done , the guy will be mentioned in the same sentence with the top pitchers in history. in my opinion.

Really?

Halladay during 2000s - 160 Wins, 4.15 ERA and 1 Cy Young

R. Johnson during 2000s (Keep in mind he was 36-46 years old) - 133 Wins, 3.10 ERA and 3 of his 4 consecutive Cy Young Awards

Santana during 2000s - 133 Wins, 3.10 ERA and 2 Cy Young Awards

I think it's safe to say that an over-the-hill Randy Johnson was the dominate and best pitcher of the 90's. Gotta come with stats if you want to make these points WNO.

 

[WorldNumberOne]

Really?

Halladay during 2000s - 160 Wins, 4.15 ERA and 1 Cy Young

R. Johnson during 2000s (Keep in mind he was 36-46 years old) - 133 Wins, 3.10 ERA and 3 of his 4 consecutive Cy Young Awards

Santana during 2000s - 133 Wins, 3.10 ERA and 2 Cy Young Awards

I think it's safe to say that an over-the-hill Randy Johnson was the dominate and best pitcher of the 90's. Gotta come with stats if you want to make these points WNO.

who's talking about the 90's ?

i'll take halladay and his 160-79 over anybody in the 2000's . especially when you consider who he played for and the fact he only started 33 games total in 2000 and 2001 .

randy johnson was 143-78 with a 3.57 era . where do you get 3.10 ? you neeed to come with some correct stats if you wanna make these points. nice last 1/2 of the decade .. 57-38 4.28 era .. good thing he was with the yankees for 2 of those years and they scored runs..

santana = 2 really good years.. i'll take 160-79 over 133-69 every day of the week... i'm not here to discredit santana . i think he's awesome too , but he only truly became a starter in 2002 and more in 2003.

became full time starters

halladay 2002-2010 151-69
santana 2003-2010 122-60

 

[WorldNumberOne]

oh , and halladay's era during the 2000's isnt 4.15 . its 3.77 . and that is with an over 10 era during 2000 added in...