His career is very unique he had less than 1300 hits after his age 30 season
His first full season wasn't until age 23.
At about age 28 the odds of him making the HOF had to be next to none.
In 1992 I guarantee you 99% would have taken Alomar over Biggio and would have all said Alomar was the HOF player.
His first full season wasn't until age 23.
At about age 28 the odds of him making the HOF had to be next to none.
In 1992 I guarantee you 99% would have taken Alomar over Biggio and would have all said Alomar was the HOF player.
Baseball is really amazing how so many milestone type numbers (the nice round ones) are so meaningful.
3000 hits, not 3250, not 3300 but 3000, that is the threshold players strive for when they aim towards the HOF,'Can he reach 3000 hits'?
Same with 500 homers...480 homers seems so much less of a feat than the "500 HR Club" , and the reality is it is not much different at all.
300 Wins same thing
100 RBI season, well this one use to mean more when just 5-6 players went over the centruy mark in each league.
all this and the season is 162 games, a very odd random number.
3000 hits, not 3250, not 3300 but 3000, that is the threshold players strive for when they aim towards the HOF,'Can he reach 3000 hits'?
Same with 500 homers...480 homers seems so much less of a feat than the "500 HR Club" , and the reality is it is not much different at all.
300 Wins same thing
100 RBI season, well this one use to mean more when just 5-6 players went over the centruy mark in each league.
all this and the season is 162 games, a very odd random number.
Second baseman Craig Biggio had a big night. He went 3-for-5 with a double and RBI to pass Sam Rice and move into sole possession of 27th place on the all-time hits list with 2,988. His next target is Roberto Clemente, who had 3,000.:thumbsup:
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/4895224.html
Career Leaders for Doubles
<TABLE cellSpacing=3 cellPadding=4 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=right>Rank</TD><TD>Player (age)</TD><TD align=right>Doubles</TD><TD>Bats</TD></TR><TR><TD align=right>1.</TD><TD>Tris Speaker+* </TD><TD align=right>792</TD><TD align=right>L</TD></TR><TR><TD align=right>2.</TD><TD>Pete Rose# </TD><TD align=right>746</TD><TD align=right>B</TD></TR><TR><TD align=right>3.</TD><TD>Stan Musial+* </TD><TD align=right>725</TD><TD align=right>L</TD></TR><TR><TD align=right>4.</TD><TD>Ty Cobb+* </TD><TD align=right>724</TD><TD align=right>L</TD></TR><TR><TD align=right>5.</TD><TD>George Brett+* </TD><TD align=right>665</TD><TD align=right>L</TD></TR><TR><TD align=right>6.</TD><TD>Craig Biggio (41)</TD><TD align=right>657</TD><TD align=right>R</TD></TR><TR><TD align=right> </TD><TD>Nap Lajoie+ </TD><TD align=right>657</TD><TD align=right>R</TD></TR><TR><TD align=right>8.</TD><TD>Carl Yastrzemski+* </TD><TD align=right>646</TD><TD align=right>L</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/4895224.html
Career Leaders for Doubles
<TABLE cellSpacing=3 cellPadding=4 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=right>Rank</TD><TD>Player (age)</TD><TD align=right>Doubles</TD><TD>Bats</TD></TR><TR><TD align=right>1.</TD><TD>Tris Speaker+* </TD><TD align=right>792</TD><TD align=right>L</TD></TR><TR><TD align=right>2.</TD><TD>Pete Rose# </TD><TD align=right>746</TD><TD align=right>B</TD></TR><TR><TD align=right>3.</TD><TD>Stan Musial+* </TD><TD align=right>725</TD><TD align=right>L</TD></TR><TR><TD align=right>4.</TD><TD>Ty Cobb+* </TD><TD align=right>724</TD><TD align=right>L</TD></TR><TR><TD align=right>5.</TD><TD>George Brett+* </TD><TD align=right>665</TD><TD align=right>L</TD></TR><TR><TD align=right>6.</TD><TD>Craig Biggio (41)</TD><TD align=right>657</TD><TD align=right>R</TD></TR><TR><TD align=right> </TD><TD>Nap Lajoie+ </TD><TD align=right>657</TD><TD align=right>R</TD></TR><TR><TD align=right>8.</TD><TD>Carl Yastrzemski+* </TD><TD align=right>646</TD><TD align=right>L</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
Thats where I disagree... I think the HOF is for Great players...not just one hit wonders. Not anyone can pile up stats over the long haul...its takes a player w/ biggios style to do so. The guy takes care of his body and he might not have the numbers that he did a few years ago...he can be a threat at the plate.
He is the current leader in career Leadoff Homeruns in the NL, and we all know that he also leads HBP catagory to.
If you look at his stats for career doubles...he is the #1 Right handed batter that leads that catagory all time.
He is the current leader in career Leadoff Homeruns in the NL, and we all know that he also leads HBP catagory to.
If you look at his stats for career doubles...he is the #1 Right handed batter that leads that catagory all time.
Yeah I might be a homer...but the guy has produced...his stats show this. Houston has never really been a great post-season team so I do give you that. But to start out as a catcher and to do what he has is remarkable...
***Is the only player in Major League Baseball history with at least 600 doubles, 2,900 hits, 250 homers and 400 steals**
Longevity is what it is , not remarkable
Has he ever led the NL for a year in anything important ?
HRS
RBIS
HITS
RUNS
AVG.
OBP
SLP
SB
BB
Has he ever been in the top 5 in MVP voting for a year ?
If you can't answer yes to even 1 of these ?'s this thread should close due to a lack of adequate support and hopefully this subject won't be brought up again.
Craig Biggio and son at game
<!--END BLOG POST TITLE--><!--BLOG POST BYLINE-->By Angela, CBB Sports Contributor
<!--END BLOG POST BYLINE--><!--START BLOG POST BODY-->Houston Astros' designated hitter Craig Biggio and his 14-year-old son, Conor Joseph Biggio, pause and listen to the national anthem on Sunday, June 24 before the Astros' game against the Texas Rangers in Arlington, Texas.
June 24, 2007, 11:55PM
Biggio gives Astros a win in Arlington
By BRIAN McTAGGART
Copyright 2007 Houston Chronicle
Craig Biggio's third hit of the game and 2,996th of his career drove in Morgan Ensberg from second base with the go-ahead run in the 10th, and Lance Berkman and Mark Loretta added insurance RBIs.
Biggio's double in 10th was the 658th of his career, putting him in sole possession of sixth place all-time on the doubles list. He has more doubles than any righthanded player in history.:thumbsup:
<!--END BLOG POST TITLE--><!--BLOG POST BYLINE-->By Angela, CBB Sports Contributor
<!--END BLOG POST BYLINE--><!--START BLOG POST BODY-->Houston Astros' designated hitter Craig Biggio and his 14-year-old son, Conor Joseph Biggio, pause and listen to the national anthem on Sunday, June 24 before the Astros' game against the Texas Rangers in Arlington, Texas.
June 24, 2007, 11:55PM
Biggio gives Astros a win in Arlington
By BRIAN McTAGGART
Copyright 2007 Houston Chronicle
Craig Biggio's third hit of the game and 2,996th of his career drove in Morgan Ensberg from second base with the go-ahead run in the 10th, and Lance Berkman and Mark Loretta added insurance RBIs.
Biggio's double in 10th was the 658th of his career, putting him in sole possession of sixth place all-time on the doubles list. He has more doubles than any righthanded player in history.:thumbsup:
What a great moment for a true class act in baseball...3000 hits. They deserves all the recognition he will get for this. Also add that he is the all time leader in doubles batting from the right side.
I just don't understand how any could say this guy doesn't deserve to be in HOF...one of the bright spots in a baseworld filled with bad pub about steroids and barry bonds
I just don't understand how any could say this guy doesn't deserve to be in HOF...one of the bright spots in a baseworld filled with bad pub about steroids and barry bonds
Biggio honored
Craig Biggio, who notched his 3,000th career hit Thursday, was named the National League Player of the Week on Monday. Biggio hit .444 (8-for-18) last week with two runs and one RBI, with five of the hits coming Thursday.
Biggio tied Al Kaline for 25th place on the all-time hit list with his third hit and the 3,007th of his career Monday, and he also recorded his 1,000th career extra-base hit with a first-inning double.
He's 27th all-time in extra base hits.
Craig Biggio, who notched his 3,000th career hit Thursday, was named the National League Player of the Week on Monday. Biggio hit .444 (8-for-18) last week with two runs and one RBI, with five of the hits coming Thursday.
Biggio tied Al Kaline for 25th place on the all-time hit list with his third hit and the 3,007th of his career Monday, and he also recorded his 1,000th career extra-base hit with a first-inning double.
He's 27th all-time in extra base hits.
<TABLE cellSpacing=3 cellPadding=0 align=left><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top>
</TD><TD vAlign=top>The Unofficial Scorer
Sorting through the numbers with Zachary Levine
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
July 24, 2007
If Ryne Sandberg's a Hall-of-Famer...
Craig Biggio is a Hall-of-Famer.
Putting that aside for a second, here are five reasons the devil's advocate can say that he shouldn't get in:
1. He never seemed to be the best player on his team.*
2. He never finished in the top three in the MVP voting.
3. He is a career .282 hitter.**
4. He performed poorly in the playoffs.***
5. He fails the "I'd drop everything and watch him" test for Hall status.
Now, here are all the reasons you need as to why he should get in.
1. Ryne Sandberg got in.
What? That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. Sandberg won nine gold gloves and was one of the best fielders ever to play the position. Biggio won four. Sandberg made 10 All-Star games. Biggio made seven.****
It's really not that ridiculous when you look at the numbers for the two second basemen.
Biggio, now that he's announced his retirement, will have to wait until the vote in 2013 to cement his place in the Hall. But when Ryno accepted his plaque in 2005, he may as well have been accepting Biggio's as well.
Consider Win Shares, the statistical baby of Bill James and what I consider to be the defining statistic of a game in which the goal is not to hit .300 or dip your ERA under 3, but to leave the field with a win.
Basically, it is a measure of thirds of wins contributed to a team using one of the most complicated formulas known to man. For instance, if you replaced a team with a 40-win-share player (MVP level) with a 10-win-share player (marginal level) that team would win an average of (40-10)/3 = 10 fewer games.
Position players receive hitting win shares and fielding win shares, found in James' book up to 2001 and then here and here and here. Those hitting and fielding marks are added to get a total. Again, 700 pages on my bookshelf, but a pretty simple concept.
So who has more fielding win shares?
Sandberg, obviously.
Wrong. Biggio, by an approximate margin of 100.7 to 93.4.
Note, I'm not counting Win Shares per 1,000 innings or anything like that, because longevity is a huge part of one's resume.
Biggio has 431 career Win Shares, 33rd on the all-time list. The guys at 31 and 32 are in, Jimmie Foxx and George Brett. The guy at 34 will be in this weekend, Cal Ripken Jr.
In fact, from No. 1 to No. 45, everybody who's been retired the requisite number of years and whose name doesn't rhyme with "I never bet on baseball," is in the Hall of Fame.
Ryno has 346 Win Shares, one fewer than Dwight Evans.
Even though we shouldn't, let's be generous to Sandberg and water down Biggio's career to Ryno's 8,385 at-bats from his 10,699 entering Tuesday's dramatic display.
Sandberg, who hit three points higher in his career, will obviously have more hits, 2,386-2,362. Biggio, who had an OPS three points higher, will still have 144 more walks and 189 more HBPs. Plus he'll have the underappreciated edge of hitting into 22 fewer double plays, which is ignored in OPS.
So Biggio will be on base on his own merit 331 more times over a career as long as Sandberg's or 422 more times in a career as long, to this point, as Biggio's.
That's almost one a week, and if you don't believe me that that's a lot, one hit a week is the difference between a .260 hitter and a .300 hitter.
Ignore Biggio's 3,014 hits, 24th all-time (everyone eligible from 1-44 on that list is in, stopping with Andre Dawson at 2,774). Ignore the 661 doubles, sixth all-time (everyone eligible from 1-28 is in). Ignore the hit-by-pitch record (most of you probably would anyway).
If we are going to make this a statistical argument, and that's what we do here, just look at his numbers compared to Sandberg's. Look at his defensive consistency and longevity which have produced more fielding Win Shares. If you're more into wins than win shares, look at his .521 winning percentage when he starts, compared to Ryno's .488. And look at all the little things that Biggio did, getting hit by pitches, walking and staying out of double plays, compared to Sandberg, to get on base.
Once Sandberg got in, Biggio should have had his ticket punched.
It's recently been repeated concerning the 500 home run club that there's going to be, eventually, the pioneer who is the first one not in the Hall of Fame. Does the same have to be true of the 3,000 hit club? Probably not; one look at who's coming up the pipe in those two clubs tells you that the latter is going to retain its exclusivity.
But even if you do have to "make the example" out of someone in the 3,000-hit club, it should not be Biggio, given everything else he's accomplished beyond 3,000 hits and given the way he approaches the game. But I'll let Richard and company vouch for him beyond the numbers.
If you're going to close the door on a member of the 3,000 club, let it be Rafael Palmeiro. *Go find Pete Rose, Joe Morgan, Tony Perez and Johnny Bench and tell that to three of the four of them.
**Fellow second basemen Johnny Evers, Joe Morgan and Bill Mazeroski, among others, would have needed a few balls, or a hundred, to bounce their way to get up to .282. Roy Campanella, Johnny Bench, Carlton Fisk, Eddie Mathews, Gary Carter, Tony Perez, Cal Ripken, Jr., Michael Jack Schmidt, Brooks Robinson, Mr. Cub, Luis Aparicio, Pee Wee Reese, Harmon Killebrew, Phil Rizzuto, Ralph Kiner and Reggie Jackson may also have a bit of a problem with that.
***How'd Ernie Banks do in the playoffs?
****Barry Larkin made 12.
Sorting through the numbers with Zachary Levine
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
July 24, 2007
If Ryne Sandberg's a Hall-of-Famer...
Craig Biggio is a Hall-of-Famer.
Putting that aside for a second, here are five reasons the devil's advocate can say that he shouldn't get in:
1. He never seemed to be the best player on his team.*
2. He never finished in the top three in the MVP voting.
3. He is a career .282 hitter.**
4. He performed poorly in the playoffs.***
5. He fails the "I'd drop everything and watch him" test for Hall status.
Now, here are all the reasons you need as to why he should get in.
1. Ryne Sandberg got in.
What? That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. Sandberg won nine gold gloves and was one of the best fielders ever to play the position. Biggio won four. Sandberg made 10 All-Star games. Biggio made seven.****
It's really not that ridiculous when you look at the numbers for the two second basemen.
Biggio, now that he's announced his retirement, will have to wait until the vote in 2013 to cement his place in the Hall. But when Ryno accepted his plaque in 2005, he may as well have been accepting Biggio's as well.
Consider Win Shares, the statistical baby of Bill James and what I consider to be the defining statistic of a game in which the goal is not to hit .300 or dip your ERA under 3, but to leave the field with a win.
Basically, it is a measure of thirds of wins contributed to a team using one of the most complicated formulas known to man. For instance, if you replaced a team with a 40-win-share player (MVP level) with a 10-win-share player (marginal level) that team would win an average of (40-10)/3 = 10 fewer games.
Position players receive hitting win shares and fielding win shares, found in James' book up to 2001 and then here and here and here. Those hitting and fielding marks are added to get a total. Again, 700 pages on my bookshelf, but a pretty simple concept.
So who has more fielding win shares?
Sandberg, obviously.
Wrong. Biggio, by an approximate margin of 100.7 to 93.4.
Note, I'm not counting Win Shares per 1,000 innings or anything like that, because longevity is a huge part of one's resume.
Biggio has 431 career Win Shares, 33rd on the all-time list. The guys at 31 and 32 are in, Jimmie Foxx and George Brett. The guy at 34 will be in this weekend, Cal Ripken Jr.
In fact, from No. 1 to No. 45, everybody who's been retired the requisite number of years and whose name doesn't rhyme with "I never bet on baseball," is in the Hall of Fame.
Ryno has 346 Win Shares, one fewer than Dwight Evans.
Even though we shouldn't, let's be generous to Sandberg and water down Biggio's career to Ryno's 8,385 at-bats from his 10,699 entering Tuesday's dramatic display.
Sandberg, who hit three points higher in his career, will obviously have more hits, 2,386-2,362. Biggio, who had an OPS three points higher, will still have 144 more walks and 189 more HBPs. Plus he'll have the underappreciated edge of hitting into 22 fewer double plays, which is ignored in OPS.
So Biggio will be on base on his own merit 331 more times over a career as long as Sandberg's or 422 more times in a career as long, to this point, as Biggio's.
That's almost one a week, and if you don't believe me that that's a lot, one hit a week is the difference between a .260 hitter and a .300 hitter.
Ignore Biggio's 3,014 hits, 24th all-time (everyone eligible from 1-44 on that list is in, stopping with Andre Dawson at 2,774). Ignore the 661 doubles, sixth all-time (everyone eligible from 1-28 is in). Ignore the hit-by-pitch record (most of you probably would anyway).
If we are going to make this a statistical argument, and that's what we do here, just look at his numbers compared to Sandberg's. Look at his defensive consistency and longevity which have produced more fielding Win Shares. If you're more into wins than win shares, look at his .521 winning percentage when he starts, compared to Ryno's .488. And look at all the little things that Biggio did, getting hit by pitches, walking and staying out of double plays, compared to Sandberg, to get on base.
Once Sandberg got in, Biggio should have had his ticket punched.
It's recently been repeated concerning the 500 home run club that there's going to be, eventually, the pioneer who is the first one not in the Hall of Fame. Does the same have to be true of the 3,000 hit club? Probably not; one look at who's coming up the pipe in those two clubs tells you that the latter is going to retain its exclusivity.
But even if you do have to "make the example" out of someone in the 3,000-hit club, it should not be Biggio, given everything else he's accomplished beyond 3,000 hits and given the way he approaches the game. But I'll let Richard and company vouch for him beyond the numbers.
If you're going to close the door on a member of the 3,000 club, let it be Rafael Palmeiro. *Go find Pete Rose, Joe Morgan, Tony Perez and Johnny Bench and tell that to three of the four of them.
**Fellow second basemen Johnny Evers, Joe Morgan and Bill Mazeroski, among others, would have needed a few balls, or a hundred, to bounce their way to get up to .282. Roy Campanella, Johnny Bench, Carlton Fisk, Eddie Mathews, Gary Carter, Tony Perez, Cal Ripken, Jr., Michael Jack Schmidt, Brooks Robinson, Mr. Cub, Luis Aparicio, Pee Wee Reese, Harmon Killebrew, Phil Rizzuto, Ralph Kiner and Reggie Jackson may also have a bit of a problem with that.
***How'd Ernie Banks do in the playoffs?
****Barry Larkin made 12.
