As the USA military death toll approaches 2000

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Did everyone see the headlines in Atlanta Journal Constitution today?


"Spring pullout possible" meaning we will start withdrawing in 2006. It goes on to say:

"In early 2004, the Pentagon had planned to reduce troop levels by summer. But a wave of violence in Iraq this time last year instead prompted the Pentagon to pronounce extended tours for American units serving there, and troop levels have not declined since they were bolstered to support Iraqi national elections in January".

My prediction is that this will be much like Viet Nam. When we pull out the supposed democracy will be overrun - this time by Civil War between Shiites, Sunnis and kurds. Don't know how it will end, but it won't be with a Jeffersonian democracy favorable to the USA.

We'll do something equivalent to the Nixon "peace with honor" total fvckin bullshit and another 500 American troops will be killed and another 1000 more maimed for life for...nothing. When it all falls apart, we'll say we gave them a chance and they blew it.

And just like Viet Nam, we had chickenshvt political leaders who ignored the advice of military commanders and didn't put enough boots on the ground. And in both cases this resulted into feeding piecemeal casualties of war.

Am I happy about this? Fvck no.

Just like I ain't happy about underfunding the VA - but hey, what the hell, as long as we all apply the "Support our troops" yellow ribbon stickers on our SUVs, who cares what happens when they come home wounded and cannot get treatment because the Republican controlled House and Senate refuses to fund this properly?

So basically, just like Nam, we go into war under dubious (if not entirely false and contrived pretenses), with not enough resources to accomplish the mission and damage our economy (by spending billions when we're already running a deficit) and the structure of the Armed Forces.

And ain't a mofo inside the US safer than if we had ever gone in to either place. Well done, Dubya and all your alcolytes. :103631605
 

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To compaire The war in Iraq to Vietnam and WWII is stupid.
Where do you guys come up with this shit? First of all the death rates are no where near the same. The cost is only higher because of Inflation. This war is going better than expected. The consitution is almost complete. Next step is to create a army. After that, we can build our base. Then The UN Peace keepers can come in. Rome was not built in a day gentlemen. This is going to take time. Just like Germany and Japan. The problem is you Dems and republicans bitching at eachother for going in there. Guess what, we are there. We need to start focusing on how to get stable. So we can pull out some of the troops. Remember that we have a big problem facing us. Iran will not give up thier nuclear ambitions. The last thing we need is Jihadists running around with nuclear material and/or weapons. Our troops will be there no matter what till that comes to a head. Same goes for the one's in afganistan.

Unless you served in Vietnam I doubt you have any clue what a real war is like. Just by watching all of the fictional movies about Nam will show you that its not one in the same as Iraq. Iraq is a cake walk compaired to Nam.

I know losing soilders is not good. Yet, you can not expect to sign-up for the military and not see combat action. This is real life. Bullets do kill. Wars happen. Wars have been going on since mankind started to walk the earth. Yes there was a reason to go. Yes Saddam was a evil man. Isolationism is not a good policey. That's what clinton did. Look where it got us.

In this day and age you can not sit back and wait. To many lives will be lost. You have to strike first ask questions later. You know why? The other guy is not going to wait. The other guy does not like us. He will kill us if given the chance.

Remember 9/11 when you kiss your kids good night, or drop them off at school. When you go to work. When you fly to a vacation spot. These are not safe anymore. We don't know when, or where the next strike is going to be.

Yes I know....Here it comes.....What does 9/11 have to do with Iraq. Well boys, EVERYTHING. It changed the world. Like it or Not. The middle east is a breading ground for terrorists.

Its 3:32 am....I need to sleep.

I will finish this tommoro. I had enough of :digit:

Good Night Guys.
 

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Do you really want to use Vietnam as a comparison? Weve been at war in the Middle East (Afgh/Iraq) for what 3+ years? So lets look at the death toll for the first 3 years of Vietnam....shall we:



<TABLE width="100%" border=1><TBODY><TR><TH width="7.6%">1966</TH><TH width="7.6%">Jan</TH><TH width="7.6%">Feb</TH><TH width="7.6%">Mar</TH><TH width="7.6%">Apr</TH><TH width="7.6%">May</TH><TH width="7.6%">Jun</TH><TH width="7.6%">Jul</TH><TH width="7.6%">Aug</TH><TH width="7.6%">Sep</TH><TH width="7.6%">Oct</TH><TH width="7.6%">Nov</TH><TH width="7.6%">Dec</TH></TR><TR><TH width="7.6%">US</TH><TH width="7.6%">196</TH><TH width="7.6%">208</TH><TH width="7.6%">231</TH><TH width="7.6%">245</TH><TH width="7.6%">255</TH><TH width="7.6%">268</TH><TH width="7.6%">277</TH><TH width="7.6%">297</TH><TH width="7.6%">313</TH><TH width="7.6%">342</TH><TH width="7.6%">356</TH><TH width="7.6%">385</TH></TR><TR><TH width="7.6%">ALLIES</TH><TH width="7.6%">22</TH><TH width="7.6%">23</TH><TH width="7.6%">23</TH><TH width="7.6%">28</TH><TH width="7.6%">29</TH><TH width="7.6%">30</TH><TH width="7.6%">31</TH><TH width="7.6%">35</TH><TH width="7.6%">47</TH><TH width="7.6%">52</TH><TH width="7.6%">52</TH><TH width="7.6%">53</TH></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

<TABLE width="100%" border=1><TBODY><TR><TH width="7.6%">1967</TH><TH width="7.6%">Jan</TH><TH width="7.6%">Feb</TH><TH width="7.6%">Mar</TH><TH width="7.6%">Apr</TH><TH width="7.6%">May</TH><TH width="7.6%">Jun</TH><TH width="7.6%">Jul</TH><TH width="7.6%">Aug</TH><TH width="7.6%">Sep</TH><TH width="7.6%">Oct</TH><TH width="7.6%">Nov</TH><TH width="7.6%">Dec</TH></TR><TR><TH width="7.6%">US</TH><TH width="7.6%">403</TH><TH width="7.6%">414</TH><TH width="7.6%">421</TH><TH width="7.6%">436</TH><TH width="7.6%">443</TH><TH width="7.6%">449</TH><TH width="7.6%">458</TH><TH width="7.6%">466</TH><TH width="7.6%">460</TH><TH width="7.6%">467</TH><TH width="7.6%">470</TH><TH width="7.6%">486</TH></TR><TR><TH width="7.6%">ALLIES</TH><TH width="7.6%">53</TH><TH width="7.6%">55</TH><TH width="7.6%">54</TH><TH width="7.6%">54</TH><TH width="7.6%">54</TH><TH width="7.6%">54</TH><TH width="7.6%">56</TH><TH width="7.6%">57</TH><TH width="7.6%">59</TH><TH width="7.6%">59</TH><TH width="7.6%">59</TH><TH width="7.6%">59</TH></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

<TABLE width="100%" border=1><TBODY><TR><TH width="7.6%">1968</TH><TH width="7.6%">Jan</TH><TH width="7.6%">Feb</TH><TH width="7.6%">Mar</TH><TH width="7.6%">Apr</TH><TH width="7.6%">May</TH><TH width="7.6%">Jun</TH><TH width="7.6%">Jul</TH><TH width="7.6%">Aug</TH><TH width="7.6%">Sep</TH><TH width="7.6%">Oct</TH><TH width="7.6%">Nov</TH><TH width="7.6%">Dec</TH></TR><TR><TH width="7.6%">US</TH><TH width="7.6%">498</TH><TH width="7.6%">506</TH><TH width="7.6%">515</TH><TH width="7.6%">520</TH><TH width="7.6%">536</TH><TH width="7.6%">536</TH><TH width="7.6%">537</TH><TH width="7.6%">537</TH><TH width="7.6%">538</TH><TH width="7.6%">534</TH><TH width="7.6%">538</TH><TH width="7.6%">537</TH></TR><TR><TH width="7.6%">ALLIES</TH><TH width="7.6%">61</TH><TH width="7.6%">60</TH><TH width="7.6%">61</TH><TH width="7.6%">61</TH><TH width="7.6%">63</TH><TH width="7.6%">65</TH><TH width="7.6%">66</TH><TH width="7.6%">66</TH><TH width="7.6%">66</TH><TH width="7.6%">66</TH><TH width="7.6%">66</TH><TH width="7.6%">66</TH></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

No comparison....
 

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Depleted Uranium will create huge casualties.(DU)
There's a ton of stuff about it on the net.

DU is the new agent orange.

Many scientists believe that uranium oxide dust inhaled or ingested by troops in the Gulf War is the cause, or a contributing cause, of the "Gulf-War Syndrome". Of the approximately 697,000 U.S. troops stationed in the Gulf during the war, more than 100,000 veterans are now chronically ill. Cancer rates in southern Iraq have increased dramatically. For example ovarian cancer in Iraqi women of the southern region has fully increased by 16-fold.

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/WO0406/S00330.htm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/2970503.stm

http://www.veteransforpeace.org/Iraq_Experts_091203.htm

http://www.rense.com/general64/du.htm


DU is around 1.5 times heavier than lead and lead is banned from everything because of its threat to human health.

You don't need a degree in rocket science to see that DU dust is bad news and Iraq has some cracking dust storms.
One even held up the US advance towards Baghdad for a couple of days.
 

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eek.....the people can suck in all the du they want, troops also.....

As far as the governments position on du:

1) It makes hip and trendy ammo that can take out just about anything an enemy can build....

2) To admit that du is harmful would only open a pandora's box for lawsuits and medical claims, the government learned it's lesson with agent orange...

3) The dudes who call the shots aren't being exposed to it or doing the dying, the common soldier and general public in Iraq are paying the price, and both groups are expendable in the government's eyes. All they have to do is bury all the research and studies that indicate it's harmful, and tell the afflicted that they're full of $hit.......play the waiting game, the government waits until the afflicted die out....dead men don't sue....

Suck it in boys, it only has a half-life of about a billion years!:party:
 

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eek. said:
Depleted Uranium will create huge casualties.(DU)
There's a ton of stuff about it on the net.

DU is the new agent orange.

Many scientists believe that uranium oxide dust inhaled or ingested by troops in the Gulf War is the cause, or a contributing cause, of the "Gulf-War Syndrome". Of the approximately 697,000 U.S. troops stationed in the Gulf during the war, more than 100,000 veterans are now chronically ill. Cancer rates in southern Iraq have increased dramatically. For example ovarian cancer in Iraqi women of the southern region has fully increased by 16-fold.

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/WO0406/S00330.htm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/2970503.stm

http://www.veteransforpeace.org/Iraq_Experts_091203.htm

http://www.rense.com/general64/du.htm


DU is around 1.5 times heavier than lead and lead is banned from everything because of its threat to human health.

You don't need a degree in rocket science to see that DU dust is bad news and Iraq has some cracking dust storms.
One even held up the US advance towards Baghdad for a couple of days.

So when did this become a DU thread?
 

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Judge Wapner said:
As of now.

I bet you slap you hand against your chest when you talk right. Like a retard.

You Liberal morons lose a argument then change the subject. LOL.

I am suprised you guys do not get into trouble for running off topic.

That's right.....I forgot who the Mods are.:finger:
 

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For the record, I did not change the subject, merely pointing out the subject had changed. Want to borrow a tampon?
 

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POLYSCIMAJOR said:
I bet you slap you hand against your chest when you talk right. Like a retard.

You Liberal morons lose a argument then change the subject. LOL.

I am suprised you guys do not get into trouble for running off topic.

That's right.....I forgot who the Mods are.:finger:
PSM: Why don't you come back when your level of maturity catches up with your mental acuity? Until then -chill out and show some respect for the Judge-he has earned it!
 

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CC, don't throw stones when you live in a glass house and I know I've earned it....oppsss 3-0 Sox sheese!!! Broken bat scores 3???? Oh Pat's gonna kill me.....
 

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The Right Wing said:
CC, don't throw stones when you live in a glass house and I know I've earned it....oppsss 3-0 Sox sheese!!! Broken bat scores 3???? Oh Pat's gonna kill me.....
What you talking about Willis? You still smarting over the cub scouts? If so, I said I was sorry, so what you talking about Willis? BTW, I went with your Twinkies also!:icon_conf Who says you can't lose money in the political wing?
 

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wait if it's not iffy it's Tiffe!!!!! 4-2 zero outs but now fat boy is pinch hitting oh boy rally killer!
 

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BASEHEAD said:
Do you really want to use Vietnam as a comparison? Weve been at war in the Middle East (Afgh/Iraq) for what 3+ years? So lets look at the death toll for the first 3 years of Vietnam....shall we:



<TABLE width="100%" border=1><TBODY><TR><TH width="7.6%">1966</TH><TH width="7.6%">Jan</TH><TH width="7.6%">Feb</TH><TH width="7.6%">Mar</TH><TH width="7.6%">Apr</TH><TH width="7.6%">May</TH><TH width="7.6%">Jun</TH><TH width="7.6%">Jul</TH><TH width="7.6%">Aug</TH><TH width="7.6%">Sep</TH><TH width="7.6%">Oct</TH><TH width="7.6%">Nov</TH><TH width="7.6%">Dec</TH></TR><TR><TH width="7.6%">US</TH><TH width="7.6%">196</TH><TH width="7.6%">208</TH><TH width="7.6%">231</TH><TH width="7.6%">245</TH><TH width="7.6%">255</TH><TH width="7.6%">268</TH><TH width="7.6%">277</TH><TH width="7.6%">297</TH><TH width="7.6%">313</TH><TH width="7.6%">342</TH><TH width="7.6%">356</TH><TH width="7.6%">385</TH></TR><TR><TH width="7.6%">ALLIES</TH><TH width="7.6%">22</TH><TH width="7.6%">23</TH><TH width="7.6%">23</TH><TH width="7.6%">28</TH><TH width="7.6%">29</TH><TH width="7.6%">30</TH><TH width="7.6%">31</TH><TH width="7.6%">35</TH><TH width="7.6%">47</TH><TH width="7.6%">52</TH><TH width="7.6%">52</TH><TH width="7.6%">53</TH></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

<TABLE width="100%" border=1><TBODY><TR><TH width="7.6%">1967</TH><TH width="7.6%">Jan</TH><TH width="7.6%">Feb</TH><TH width="7.6%">Mar</TH><TH width="7.6%">Apr</TH><TH width="7.6%">May</TH><TH width="7.6%">Jun</TH><TH width="7.6%">Jul</TH><TH width="7.6%">Aug</TH><TH width="7.6%">Sep</TH><TH width="7.6%">Oct</TH><TH width="7.6%">Nov</TH><TH width="7.6%">Dec</TH></TR><TR><TH width="7.6%">US</TH><TH width="7.6%">403</TH><TH width="7.6%">414</TH><TH width="7.6%">421</TH><TH width="7.6%">436</TH><TH width="7.6%">443</TH><TH width="7.6%">449</TH><TH width="7.6%">458</TH><TH width="7.6%">466</TH><TH width="7.6%">460</TH><TH width="7.6%">467</TH><TH width="7.6%">470</TH><TH width="7.6%">486</TH></TR><TR><TH width="7.6%">ALLIES</TH><TH width="7.6%">53</TH><TH width="7.6%">55</TH><TH width="7.6%">54</TH><TH width="7.6%">54</TH><TH width="7.6%">54</TH><TH width="7.6%">54</TH><TH width="7.6%">56</TH><TH width="7.6%">57</TH><TH width="7.6%">59</TH><TH width="7.6%">59</TH><TH width="7.6%">59</TH><TH width="7.6%">59</TH></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

<TABLE width="100%" border=1><TBODY><TR><TH width="7.6%">1968</TH><TH width="7.6%">Jan</TH><TH width="7.6%">Feb</TH><TH width="7.6%">Mar</TH><TH width="7.6%">Apr</TH><TH width="7.6%">May</TH><TH width="7.6%">Jun</TH><TH width="7.6%">Jul</TH><TH width="7.6%">Aug</TH><TH width="7.6%">Sep</TH><TH width="7.6%">Oct</TH><TH width="7.6%">Nov</TH><TH width="7.6%">Dec</TH></TR><TR><TH width="7.6%">US</TH><TH width="7.6%">498</TH><TH width="7.6%">506</TH><TH width="7.6%">515</TH><TH width="7.6%">520</TH><TH width="7.6%">536</TH><TH width="7.6%">536</TH><TH width="7.6%">537</TH><TH width="7.6%">537</TH><TH width="7.6%">538</TH><TH width="7.6%">534</TH><TH width="7.6%">538</TH><TH width="7.6%">537</TH></TR><TR><TH width="7.6%">ALLIES</TH><TH width="7.6%">61</TH><TH width="7.6%">60</TH><TH width="7.6%">61</TH><TH width="7.6%">61</TH><TH width="7.6%">63</TH><TH width="7.6%">65</TH><TH width="7.6%">66</TH><TH width="7.6%">66</TH><TH width="7.6%">66</TH><TH width="7.6%">66</TH><TH width="7.6%">66</TH><TH width="7.6%">66</TH></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

No comparison....



Here's the deal - I never said casualties in Iraq were similar to Viet Nam. There are some differences, no doubt. What I tried to point out is the following:

- Both wars are fought under false pretenses...Viet Nam was the the domino theory and gulf of tonkin, Iraq was WMD and ties to Alk Qaeda - all total fvckin bullshit
- Both wars resulted in dramatic restructuing of the military due to enormous strain placed on an increasingly disaffected majority of American society (completely unlike WWII)
- IMHO, both wars resulted in unnnecessary loss of American combatants while doing nothing to enahnce American society security
- Given the scope of the mission, in both wars we have failed to commit the resources to accomplish the mission (whether you agree to it or not, in Viet Nam Colin Powell will tell you that, in Iraq, General Shinseki will tell you the sae thing)
- In both wars a disproportionate amount of minorities and lower economic class citizen soldiers as compared to society as a whole suffer casualties
- Both wars add to a governmental budget deficit which imperils our economy

The big comparison is just an opinion - will it be successful or not? Obviously Viet Nam was not, and based on recent reports which I quoted in recent posts, I see us cutting and running from Iraq in the same fashion a la Dick Nixon "peace with honor" bullshit" I hope I am wrong but time will tell.
 

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mudbone....totally agree with your post....the only real difference between Nam and Iraq is the body count, and the neocons are quite satisfied because it's "only a couple thousand"......

Wasted lives considering the fact that were not any safer at home and only one rogue bomb away from picking up the pieces of a bus like the people of London found out a couple of weeks ago...

Apparently some of the terrorists missed that memo stating they were to drop thier plans abroad and run to Iraq to go up against an American tank.

And yes, you are right, we will cut and run because the alternative is to stay in Iraq at $177 million a day, and there is no possible way to stay there indefinitely and not face consequences for spending on that scale.
 

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Heres the biggest difference...now hold on. In Nam we were protecting Asia from the spread of Communism,in Iraq/Afghanistan/whoever else steps up we're protecting your sorry ass, stopping the spread of TERRORISM.That is unless you strive to blown up on a bus,in a mall,at church,at a ballgame,at the movies...etc.Give a rest and go get some sun on your face.

These two wars are absolutely not related in any way except there are US troops on the ground fighting...thats it.See the NVA was an ARMY....wheres Al Queda ARMY?Its called pro-activity.
 

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