In the famous words of an NBA player last year:
" Both sides played hard".
I have learned two things. But I allready knew one of them LONG before happyday came along. (BTW--like that nickname--and I DO feel your pain) 1.I don't play horseraces with offshore places, except under VERY RARE circumstances and then it's only one race. Lots of legal places allready in the US to play now. Maybe not the perks, but no headaches either.2. You are a much bigger player than I am--so if I ever have a problem (god forbid); I won't be doggone; I'll be LONG GONE!
" Both sides played hard".
I have learned two things. But I allready knew one of them LONG before happyday came along. (BTW--like that nickname--and I DO feel your pain) 1.I don't play horseraces with offshore places, except under VERY RARE circumstances and then it's only one race. Lots of legal places allready in the US to play now. Maybe not the perks, but no headaches either.2. You are a much bigger player than I am--so if I ever have a problem (god forbid); I won't be doggone; I'll be LONG GONE!
CEO--Now they usually are called in when the heavy artillary is needed!! LOL But, I suspect it may be to play "kissy face".
So, take the advice from an old man, maybe not a wiser one! Do this: Answer the phone in your most charming voice use a lot of nice words, be gentle and then and THEN "Stand your ground--Don't fire unless fired upon" ! I hope the best for you and WWTS!!
So, take the advice from an old man, maybe not a wiser one! Do this: Answer the phone in your most charming voice use a lot of nice words, be gentle and then and THEN "Stand your ground--Don't fire unless fired upon" ! I hope the best for you and WWTS!!
Happy - if he is calling to give you your money that's fine. But PLEASE don't think this is the proper way to handle things in the future because it worked this time. Lot of people don't like to be threatened and all the other stuff. If you are right on an issue it will speak for itself, the rest is not necessary anyway.
The reason I don't like it as a moderator is because each time the player gets paid acting this way it can encourage others to do the same thing. Posters threatening books and badmouthing them until they get their way or the book gives in. Try and be patient when you have a problem, I know it's easy for me to say when it's not my money but in the long run you come out ahead by being decent to others. I firmly believe that. Anyway good luck my man.
The reason I don't like it as a moderator is because each time the player gets paid acting this way it can encourage others to do the same thing. Posters threatening books and badmouthing them until they get their way or the book gives in. Try and be patient when you have a problem, I know it's easy for me to say when it's not my money but in the long run you come out ahead by being decent to others. I firmly believe that. Anyway good luck my man.
patrick,
i hear ya. I will try to be more level headed in the future. I just dont like the sting of getting screwed. But ill say one last thing. For them to come in here and basically say they are not willing to resolve this for me because i sent them nasty emails is a joke. ill leave it at that
i hear ya. I will try to be more level headed in the future. I just dont like the sting of getting screwed. But ill say one last thing. For them to come in here and basically say they are not willing to resolve this for me because i sent them nasty emails is a joke. ill leave it at that
i too made the mistake of thinking he was saying they had graded the wager a loss. and of course feel like a fool for spouting off about it now. how a book deals with an angry customer is never going to be something to be proud of, but if the guy lost no money(besides the winnings he feels he's owed) i see no real problem with how they handled it.
moderators please except my apoligies and WWTS please except my incoming neteller. i really should be blocked from these threads
moderators please except my apoligies and WWTS please except my incoming neteller. i really should be blocked from these threads
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Patrick McIrish:
Happy - if he is calling to give you your money that's fine. But PLEASE don't think this is the proper way to handle things in the future because it worked this time. Lot of people don't like to be threatened and all the other stuff. If you are right on an issue it will speak for itself, the rest is not necessary anyway.
The reason I don't like it as a moderator is because each time the player gets paid acting this way it can encourage others to do the same thing. Posters threatening books and badmouthing them until they get their way or the book gives in. Try and be patient when you have a problem, I know it's easy for me to say when it's not my money but in the long run you come out ahead by being decent to others. I firmly believe that. Anyway good luck my man.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Everyone acts differently when they are done wrong by someone else. Some people get real pissed and loud, others don't. just because a guy acts like an ass doesn't mean that he wasn't wronged, it just means he has a bad temper. From most of what I read on this thread, this guy deserves to be paid. A thread like this also makes the book look kind of shitty, I wouldn't play there when they are blaming stuff on "software" issues. A book looking bad over $150 ?? Come on
Happy - if he is calling to give you your money that's fine. But PLEASE don't think this is the proper way to handle things in the future because it worked this time. Lot of people don't like to be threatened and all the other stuff. If you are right on an issue it will speak for itself, the rest is not necessary anyway.
The reason I don't like it as a moderator is because each time the player gets paid acting this way it can encourage others to do the same thing. Posters threatening books and badmouthing them until they get their way or the book gives in. Try and be patient when you have a problem, I know it's easy for me to say when it's not my money but in the long run you come out ahead by being decent to others. I firmly believe that. Anyway good luck my man.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Everyone acts differently when they are done wrong by someone else. Some people get real pissed and loud, others don't. just because a guy acts like an ass doesn't mean that he wasn't wronged, it just means he has a bad temper. From most of what I read on this thread, this guy deserves to be paid. A thread like this also makes the book look kind of shitty, I wouldn't play there when they are blaming stuff on "software" issues. A book looking bad over $150 ?? Come on
this is the email i received from them about being contacted. There is no reason to lock the thread as im sure the mods will attest after talking to wwts that this is not being made up on my part.
The last correspondence we received from you regarding the horse wager has been forwarded to the CEO. He should be responding to you soon.
Feel free to contact us 24/7 with any further inquiries, comments, or requests.
Kind Regards,
Eldon
The last correspondence we received from you regarding the horse wager has been forwarded to the CEO. He should be responding to you soon.
Feel free to contact us 24/7 with any further inquiries, comments, or requests.
Kind Regards,
Eldon
Ok-Now I see. He "should".
Is it John Madden or who that says--If if's and buts were candy and nuts-----etc.
You will probably get some type of reply; but I would not hold my breathe. This is a "time buyer". It's better than the one: the check is in the mail. (And just for the record I have no doubt that WWTS will return your funds). But it allows for a "cooling off period" and/ or more thought to go into a reply. Originally I had thought they were upset. This is probably SOP. (standard operating procedure).
Is it John Madden or who that says--If if's and buts were candy and nuts-----etc.
You will probably get some type of reply; but I would not hold my breathe. This is a "time buyer". It's better than the one: the check is in the mail. (And just for the record I have no doubt that WWTS will return your funds). But it allows for a "cooling off period" and/ or more thought to go into a reply. Originally I had thought they were upset. This is probably SOP. (standard operating procedure).
Let me turn this around and tell you how scammers think. Okay? Just to show there is two sides to everything. I have been around this stuff for a while, these guys look for opportunities to take a shot. Plays where they can not lose are ideal for them, they know when to hit and how to extort the money afterwards. I am not suggesting Happy did this but let's pretend a dishonest guy wanted to and he was in Happy's shoes this week-end.
He's playing at WWTS and notices that they have admitted they are having trouble with the software and can not close the races. Everything is working okay but they can not stop you from making wagers on races already ran. A player notices this and starts his plan. First to make it look good he bets as close as he can on every race at the same time. For instance he may get his bet in 2 minutes before post each time, by doing this several times in a row he is showing some consistentcy. After doing this a few races he decides to make his move. He loses his bet on Race #4 and waits patiently until 2 minutes before Race #5. He then bets whatever he wants but instead of Race #5 he deliberately bets it on Race #4 again.
At this point everything is perfect for him. He knows the book has admitted software problems already and they can't close a race after it had been ran. He knows he has an established time line of betting each race two minutes before hand. When he punches Race # 4 instead of Race # 5 of course he keeps a copy of his ticket. Now you sit back and see what happens in Race #5. If the horses you picked lose then you notify WWTS as you have a screen shot of your ticket and you "accidently bet Race #4", a race that had already been run. Of course it was an "accident" you tell them, why would you pick losers on a race you already knew the result of? Of course the real answer is you know past posting won't ever fly with a time stamp on the ticket so you are trying to win Race #5 instead. In fact you are careful to pick horses in Race #5 that are different from winners in Race #4. That will firm the story up later. If questioned you can scream why would I pick losers if I knew what horses had won the race already!!? The book is a lock to refund you the money if the horses don't come in on Race #5. How can they say no? You have a copy of your ticket showing you bet Race #4 and it's the books fault anyway they can't close the race.
Now if the horses you "accidently" bet in Race #4 do end up winning Race #5 you do better than just getting your money back. In this case you not only get your money back if you lose but you fight to get paid on the wins in Race #5 if that happens to hit. You have enough "evidence" to show that the only rational belief would be your intent was to bet Race #5, not Race #4 again. Now you pretend to "lose" your copy of the ticket that shows you bet Race #4 and swear you bet Race #5 and demand payment. When they question you about it you get real angry and threaten to go to the forums if they don't pay you. You scream all the stuff you had lined up to make the story good. "All day I bet each race 2 minutes before post why suddenly bet 20 minutes later?" Or "you are having software trouble why is it my fault?" Or "why would I bet losers again in Race # 4 if I knew the results" etc..... When/if a book does try and stick to their guns as they have proof you bet Race #4 and you don't even have a ticket you are in perfect shape to then run to the forums and round up a bunch of support.
Guys these cases are not always as they appear. A book the size of WWTS could care less about this money. In fact that's the angle these guys use. You threaten them with legal stuff, berate them, harrass them and try to round up others to fight for you so that it makes sense to pay this money for their peace of mind. The story is always good because these sort of people think backwards. A book with software problems is HUGE for a shottaker. Without that they wouldn't even try. However once that is noticed and it is clear they can't close races down it is a perfect no lose set-up for a player who sets his mind to it. If you get a couple of nice longshots to come in on Race #5 you can make some decent risk free money.
I have had a small interest in both a poker and a casino concession and trust me things you or I would never think about other people do. Normally when they do it's always quick hit and run too. They get here and can not collect fast enough, anyone remember the hurry Hammy was in to get paid for the money he alleged got stolen from him? Of course we know Happy is legit but the point here is most posters don't realize what books are faced with. As far as I am concerned I don't care what WWTS does, it's their call but let's not be naive here. Books this size stand up for themselves sometimes because they do not want to encourage this sort of stuff. It is not a money issue with them. Never was. Anyway thanks for playing along on this fantasy of mine, I'm sure Happy is innocent. We'll see how it ends just a damn shame he didn't keep a ticket of what he bet, we could have avoided all this.
[This message was edited by Patrick McIrish on October 30, 2003 at 02:12 AM.]
He's playing at WWTS and notices that they have admitted they are having trouble with the software and can not close the races. Everything is working okay but they can not stop you from making wagers on races already ran. A player notices this and starts his plan. First to make it look good he bets as close as he can on every race at the same time. For instance he may get his bet in 2 minutes before post each time, by doing this several times in a row he is showing some consistentcy. After doing this a few races he decides to make his move. He loses his bet on Race #4 and waits patiently until 2 minutes before Race #5. He then bets whatever he wants but instead of Race #5 he deliberately bets it on Race #4 again.
At this point everything is perfect for him. He knows the book has admitted software problems already and they can't close a race after it had been ran. He knows he has an established time line of betting each race two minutes before hand. When he punches Race # 4 instead of Race # 5 of course he keeps a copy of his ticket. Now you sit back and see what happens in Race #5. If the horses you picked lose then you notify WWTS as you have a screen shot of your ticket and you "accidently bet Race #4", a race that had already been run. Of course it was an "accident" you tell them, why would you pick losers on a race you already knew the result of? Of course the real answer is you know past posting won't ever fly with a time stamp on the ticket so you are trying to win Race #5 instead. In fact you are careful to pick horses in Race #5 that are different from winners in Race #4. That will firm the story up later. If questioned you can scream why would I pick losers if I knew what horses had won the race already!!? The book is a lock to refund you the money if the horses don't come in on Race #5. How can they say no? You have a copy of your ticket showing you bet Race #4 and it's the books fault anyway they can't close the race.
Now if the horses you "accidently" bet in Race #4 do end up winning Race #5 you do better than just getting your money back. In this case you not only get your money back if you lose but you fight to get paid on the wins in Race #5 if that happens to hit. You have enough "evidence" to show that the only rational belief would be your intent was to bet Race #5, not Race #4 again. Now you pretend to "lose" your copy of the ticket that shows you bet Race #4 and swear you bet Race #5 and demand payment. When they question you about it you get real angry and threaten to go to the forums if they don't pay you. You scream all the stuff you had lined up to make the story good. "All day I bet each race 2 minutes before post why suddenly bet 20 minutes later?" Or "you are having software trouble why is it my fault?" Or "why would I bet losers again in Race # 4 if I knew the results" etc..... When/if a book does try and stick to their guns as they have proof you bet Race #4 and you don't even have a ticket you are in perfect shape to then run to the forums and round up a bunch of support.
Guys these cases are not always as they appear. A book the size of WWTS could care less about this money. In fact that's the angle these guys use. You threaten them with legal stuff, berate them, harrass them and try to round up others to fight for you so that it makes sense to pay this money for their peace of mind. The story is always good because these sort of people think backwards. A book with software problems is HUGE for a shottaker. Without that they wouldn't even try. However once that is noticed and it is clear they can't close races down it is a perfect no lose set-up for a player who sets his mind to it. If you get a couple of nice longshots to come in on Race #5 you can make some decent risk free money.
I have had a small interest in both a poker and a casino concession and trust me things you or I would never think about other people do. Normally when they do it's always quick hit and run too. They get here and can not collect fast enough, anyone remember the hurry Hammy was in to get paid for the money he alleged got stolen from him? Of course we know Happy is legit but the point here is most posters don't realize what books are faced with. As far as I am concerned I don't care what WWTS does, it's their call but let's not be naive here. Books this size stand up for themselves sometimes because they do not want to encourage this sort of stuff. It is not a money issue with them. Never was. Anyway thanks for playing along on this fantasy of mine, I'm sure Happy is innocent. We'll see how it ends just a damn shame he didn't keep a ticket of what he bet, we could have avoided all this.
[This message was edited by Patrick McIrish on October 30, 2003 at 02:12 AM.]
patrick,
i always respected your posts on here but are you out of your f'n mind??? Now one of the mods come in here and somehow insinuate i am scamming them??? You got it patrick!! I bet races for days to set up a scam off a 100.00 bet!! Wwts can verify that my average sports wager is about 7 times that so what do i have to gain?? I have wasted too much time on this already. Besides I did not know of or was aware of any problems. Sounds like this is nothing more then a moderator blowing smoke for an advertiser that pays his salary. Dont worry mcirish once this is over im headed across the street from now on...Yeah, you got me mcirish! this weekend i put over 10,000 in action (and won btw) and just had to waste my time to pulloff this ingenious plan to fill my pockets with a 100.00 bet. please
i always respected your posts on here but are you out of your f'n mind??? Now one of the mods come in here and somehow insinuate i am scamming them??? You got it patrick!! I bet races for days to set up a scam off a 100.00 bet!! Wwts can verify that my average sports wager is about 7 times that so what do i have to gain?? I have wasted too much time on this already. Besides I did not know of or was aware of any problems. Sounds like this is nothing more then a moderator blowing smoke for an advertiser that pays his salary. Dont worry mcirish once this is over im headed across the street from now on...Yeah, you got me mcirish! this weekend i put over 10,000 in action (and won btw) and just had to waste my time to pulloff this ingenious plan to fill my pockets with a 100.00 bet. please
Happy, I said quite clearly this was a hypothetical situation so we can learn to think outside the box on these forums. Everything is not always as it seems. I get suspicious when guys get this angry over "just $100" as you put it. I mean having a family attorney reporting them to the Australian government? All over this amount of money you don't care anything about to begin with? Let me guess, it's the principle of the thing right?
Tell me what you think happened? Do you really believe you bet Race #5 and when it won they went in the system to change it back to Race #4? That way they could keep this $100? If so they sure got lucky you didn't keep a copy of your ticket huh? Wonder how they knew to cheat you and no one else yesterday? Tell me what you think happened, I'm really curious.
You really believe WWTS was out to get your money?
Tell me what you think happened? Do you really believe you bet Race #5 and when it won they went in the system to change it back to Race #4? That way they could keep this $100? If so they sure got lucky you didn't keep a copy of your ticket huh? Wonder how they knew to cheat you and no one else yesterday? Tell me what you think happened, I'm really curious.
You really believe WWTS was out to get your money?
i dont know what happened but i do know what i wagered on. If you have used their site you know that it is not like other horse sites that list all the races. They only list the next available race. When race 1 closes its gone and the only race you can bet on is race 2 and so on. aside from that whatever happened is their fault. btw the bet in question was my lowest wager of the weekend (sports,breeders, horses) so your "hypothetical" situation of the player setting them up for a score really doesnt apply. Unless i am so desperate that i planned it that way to avoid detection....
As for why i am filing a complaint with the asic believe it or not is because of pronciple...the principle being that i promised myself i wouldnt take it lying down if i got screwed again as i did 2 years ago by your friend Mark dell.so say what you want.
As for why i am filing a complaint with the asic believe it or not is because of pronciple...the principle being that i promised myself i wouldnt take it lying down if i got screwed again as i did 2 years ago by your friend Mark dell.so say what you want.
as a matter of fact im done posting about it here period (and no, not because you exposed watergate). There have been almost 2500 views and your post is the only one that somehow insinuates i was scamming them. I will handle the situation with them if they choose to stiff me not for the money but yes......for the principle,
You just registered 10 days ago and know who Mark Del is? Why use an alias if you've been around Happy? This makes no sense to me. As I said I didn't realize you would get so defensive but I'm just playing it from both sides here. Geez. Now that I threw that make believe story out there you are heading for the hills and never posting about it again here? Wow!
