I sell cars and there is some bad advice being given here. How about make a fair deal and let the salesman make a living for his work? Everyone says the car business is crooked and we are assholes ect. Well if you spend all day being jacked with over a few bucks and being a jackass to me why shouldn't I mess with you back? If you want to play games with us we can waste your whole day sitting at my desk while we "try" to get a better deal for you. Some of the scum of society today coming to my place of business to do what they learned on an Internet forum about buying a car. There are no fake taxes, second or other invoices. All information is disclosed in writing as required by law, and you can't just add stuff to the loan with out you saying yes. So many people with no clue how the business works that want to chime in. Pay the guy 250 and get the best deal. Ha. My job is worth more to me than whoring out another unit for your little money. That's not even an ethical way to do business. At the end of the day this rule still applies, do unto others as you would have them do to you. Respect my time and efforts with great service that I give and you will get a good deal on the car or truck you want not the one I want you to buy. Also you won't waste the whole day trying to buy a car.