Vince Young proving many wrong

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FairWarning said:
Whormoan knows the real reason behind Young's success is Norn Chow (former USC coordinator). :ohno:

Get Young some NFL-quality receivers and he will take the next step. Looking good so far.

People just don't realize how good Chow is. All those BYU qb's, Phillip Rivers, Carson Palmer stunk before he got to USC, Leinart was a 4th string quarterback and look at how the USC offense is nothing like it was under Chow.
I laughed the last two years as Kiffan and Sarkisian got all this praise. Leinart had been with Chow four years, last year he was on Chow cruise control, even Booty still has a little Chow, wait till Sanchez flops.
 

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Sure can't take anything away from the guy. Wins are all that matter. But remember, Trent Dilfer and Brad Johnson have superbowl rings, and they are miles away from Canton.

When you're QB rating is hovering under 65 and is second worst in the league (ahead of only Andrew Walter), and you're completion percentage is basis points over 50% and second worst in the league (ahead of only Andrew Walter), it's hard to say he is proving people wrong. I think he's right on target.

Right now he is a poor man's version of Michael Vick. Vick took over a piss poor Atlanta team and guided them to the NFC championship in his second year (he had a respectable QB rating over 80 and a completion percentage around 55% that year). I'm willing to bet Tennessee does not make the AFC championship next year.

I actually like watching the kid, he is without a doubt exciting (he's my fantasy QB, I've got to cheer for him). But before we start saying he will be more successful then the two QB's taken after him (Leinart or Cutler), let's wait and see if he can ever get his QB rating into the 70's or his completion percentage over 55%.

His best asset right now is his ability to make things happen after the play breaks down. Sounds very familiar.
 

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folks stop with the Vick vs VY comparisons. Most important thing people forget is that Vince youngs game is uniquely designed for him and for him alone. Vick on the other hand runs out of a west coast offense. It is not tailored to him and for the offense to succeed it requires vick to have a high completion rate. This is not the case with Young. Vince is so much taller and a greater passing risk than Vick. He does not have to move around in the pocket looking for holes through which to throw the ball. He can stand tall and see the whole field. Thus he only needs his o-line to hold their blocks a split second shorter than the atlanta line.

And most importantly, with the design of Youngs system, they really really punish defenses they face. (West coast offense is a quick strike offense that either scores quick or will feature too many 3 and outs). They drive the ball methodically and purposely in your face..(If i am not mistaken titans are the leading rushing team in the last 5 weeks)


If you were to compare QBs, i would say VY is actually closer to Ben Roethlisburger of last year, where by Ben only had about 20-25 attempts a game while relying on a big run game.

Vy might not make the AFC championship that quick, but the titans should do very well in the years to come as their young players get more experience.
(titans are actually the second youngest team in the league right now)

With players like Pacman jones, Ahman hall(he is a full back you will get to know soon enough), keith bulluck, Kyle Vandenbosch, Lendale white and travis henry on this squad, you should see some great things if they can shore up their defense.
 

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Unfortunately for Leinart, i actually see a bit of chaos in his future when Denny green is fired and a new coaching staff has to take over.
 

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foreignlegion said:
folks stop with the Vick vs VY comparisons.

Not talking about the type of offense, talking about the ability to make things happen when the play breaks down AND be a threat on a designed run. Vick is leading QB's in rushing, VY is second. Unlike Ben Rothlisberger, Young he is keeping drives going by his ability to make something happen with his feet.

Regardless of what type of offense they play in, the success of these QB's will have less to do with their ability to throw than it will be to compensate with sheer athleticism.

And yes, Tennessee will be a team to reckon with in years to come. Much like the Chargers two or three years ago.
 

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foreignlegion said:
Unfortunately for Leinart, i actually see a bit of chaos in his future when Denny green is fired and a new coaching staff has to take over.

He did OK when Norm Chow left USC. Coaching changes are a part of life in the NFL. There were just as many people (if not more) saying Leinart didn't have the arm strength or skill to be an NFL QB. Guess which rookie QB is leading in almost every statistical category.

Leinart's biggest problem right now is Arizona's O-line. They did nothing to address that in the offseason. they won't make that mistake this year. Leinart is only going to get better.
 

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WC Bias said:
Not talking about the type of offense, talking about the ability to make things happen when the play breaks down AND be a threat on a designed run. Vick is leading QB's in rushing, VY is second. Unlike Ben Rothlisberger, Young he is keeping drives going by his ability to make something happen with his feet.

Regardless of what type of offense they play in, the success of these QB's will have less to do with their ability to throw than it will be to compensate with sheer athleticism.

And yes, Tennessee will be a team to reckon with in years to come. Much like the Chargers two or three years ago.


But you cant talk about two quarterbacks, and say one plays like the other without taking into the account the kind off offense they ran.


People are so enthralled with Vick because he makes those dazzling runs, but many forget, even durin his reign there was another running Qb who was doing even much better than Vick and in a much better division. The AFC. Steve mcnair did very well in the same offense the titans coaches have designed for him. He was doing all those runs and more that Vick made. You cant talk about a qb and not mention the offense he is playing in.

If vick was playing in a run orientated offense with a legit dedication to a heavy run game he would be way more succesful and probably would have seen a super bowl berth by now. The fact that he is forced to sit in a system that not only tends to ignore the weaker area of his game (coupled with the fact that his Wr are similarly awful in this offense)


I agree that Vince young probably wont be in the Afc championship game next year but thats simply because the AFC is way too tough for such a thing to happen. There are just too many good teams in the AFc.

If it were the NFC, vince young would be in a play off hunt right now.
 

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I don't know that that says much, 40 other QB's could be at the helm in Chicago and I think they still would be in the playoff hunt. Shoot, Seneca Wallace carried the Seahawks for a stretch.

The knock on Young is that he is/was a poor passer that had difficulties throwing the ball downfield. Well....so far nothing has really changed. The guy that started this thread will now tell you wins are all that matters, blah, blah, blah, and in another thread he will tell you Pete Carroll is a bad coach because he couldn't game plan for one player....Vince Young. Guess what, a lot of NFL coaches are going to look bad trying to game plan for this guy. Like someone said above us, he has the "it" factor.

I'm sure he will improve as a passer as time goes on. It will also help if and when he is surrounded by better talent. Right now, he is statistically the second worst QB in the NFL, and worst starting QB.
 

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WC Bias said:
I'm sure he will improve as a passer as time goes on. It will also help if and when he is surrounded by better talent. Right now, he is statistically the second worst QB in the NFL, and worst starting QB.


Question is, of all the starting Qbs in the league, how many are going to be looking for new jobs in a few weeks? how many have engineeered 4th quarter come backs when down 24 points down?

How many have actually beaten peyton manning in the the last two years?(you name those 2 qbs, think back to what company you are actually putting Vince young in... And he actually should have beaten him twice this year, having lost the first matchup 14-13 at indy)


Again i harken back to this wide recievers, Brandon jones, drew bennet,
bobby Wade, and back up TE Bo Sciafe????
 

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RED EYE said:
I'm not sold On young yet. I still see wild throws being lofted everywhere and this could be is undoing. Excellent athlete, he does have IT, but he has to take care of the ball better. If Leinart throws two Picks thats all we would be hearing about. Also Young has alot better offensive line then Leinart does and also has a better coaching staff to work with too.

but not near the weapons at wide out.
 

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foreignlegion said:
Question is, of all the starting Qbs in the league, how many are going to be looking for new jobs in a few weeks? how many have engineeered 4th quarter come backs when down 24 points down?

How many have actually beaten peyton manning in the the last two years?(you name those 2 qbs, think back to what company you are actually putting Vince young in... And he actually should have beaten him twice this year, having lost the first matchup 14-13 at indy)


Again i harken back to this wide recievers, Brandon jones, drew bennet,
bobby Wade, and back up TE Bo Sciafe????
Last I checked Vince doesn't play against Peyton...so what the fuck does that have to do with it? And what do 4th quarter drives have to do with it either? The numbers are the numbers, they don't lie.

"Clutch" is a myth, I wish people would get over that in ALL sports.
 

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cklennon said:
Last I checked Vince doesn't play against Peyton...so what the fuck does that have to do with it? And what do 4th quarter drives have to do with it either? The numbers are the numbers, they don't lie.

"Clutch" is a myth, I wish people would get over that in ALL sports.


I couldnt have said it better, the numbers are the numbers they dont lie..

Records of the Rookie Qbs in the NFL this year..

bruce. Gradkowski:3-6
Matt Leinart:2-6
Jay cutler 0-1
Vince Young 5-4



Only one of these QBs has a winning record.....


You are 100% right, the numbers really dont lie:smoker2:
 

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foreignlegion said:
I couldnt have said it better, the numbers are the numbers they dont lie..

Records of the Rookie Qbs in the NFL this year..

bruce. Gradkowski:3-6
Matt Leinart:2-6
Jay cutler 0-1
Vince Young 5-4



Only one of these QBs has a winning record.....


You are 100% right, the numbers really dont lie:smoker2:

So by this point of reasoning we SHOULD consider Rex Grossman as one of the best QB's in the league. And for that matter, Trent Dilfer and Brad Johnson should be potential HOFers since they both wear a superbowl ring.

The only people who are wrong about Vince Young are the ones that said he would never play QB in the NFL.
 

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WC Bias said:
So by this point of reasoning we SHOULD consider Rex Grossman as one of the best QB's in the league. And for that matter, Trent Dilfer and Brad Johnson should be potential HOFers since they both wear a superbowl ring.

The only people who are wrong about Vince Young are the ones that said he would never play QB in the NFL.


No...by this point you should consider Tom Brady a better Qb than Peyton manning. Manning has all the stats, numbers, records and high Qb ratings,
while Brady has the 3 superbowl rings...


how does work for ya?
 

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BTW...Comparing what Vince young does for the titan to what Brad johnson or Rex grossman or trent dilfer is just ridiculous.

Vince Young makes plays for his team. He has been instrumental in every one of their wins. Same cant be said for all the other qbs you listed and lived off hall of fame defenses...(Really you have to be stupid to say such a dumb thing when the titans defense is ranked dead fvcking last in the whole league.. Get your head out of your arse man.)
 

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foreignlegion said:
No...by this point you should consider Tom Brady a better Qb than Peyton manning. Manning has all the stats, numbers, records and high Qb ratings,
while Brady has the 3 superbowl rings...


how does work for ya?

What kind of comparison is this? Many argue Tom Brady is a better quarterback than Peyton Manning.

What exactly is your point? Vince Young is a good quarterback? Statistics are not a reflection of a QB performance?

Most people who questioned Young's ability to be a QB in the NFL cited his poor passing. Are these people wrong? Do you think he is a good passer?

Most people who thought Young would make it in the NFL as a QB acknowledged his sheer athleticism and ability to run. Are these people wrong? Do you think his success so far doesn't have to do with his ability to run?
 

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foreignlegion said:
BTW...Comparing what Vince young does for the titan to what Brad johnson or Rex grossman or trent dilfer is just ridiculous.

Vince Young makes plays for his team. He has been instrumental in every one of their wins. Same cant be said for all the other qbs you listed and lived off hall of fame defenses...(Really you have to be stupid to say such a dumb thing when the titans defense is ranked dead fvcking last in the whole league.. Get your head out of your arse man.)

How many angles are you going to use rather than sticking to the topic of this thread. People criticized Vince Young's passing ability. He is dead last among starting QB's in completion percentage and QB rating. So is he really proving people wrong?

BTW, Titan's defense has given up 17 ppg in their last 3 games which is 3 ppg less than the Chargers and Colts. If you don't think the Titan's defense has something to do with winning their last three games, you need to pull your head out of your ass.
 

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Are you really going to pull out wins and losses as a statistic by which we should measure QBs? I suppose you're one who believes that starting pitchers are best measured by their W-L records too, hmm?

Get a grip. Football is a TEAM sport. The premise of "giving" a QB wins and losses any more than "giving" them to the RB or WR is absurd, so using that as a statistic to value players is rediculous.

Do you really believe Rex Grossman is a top QB in the NFL? Point proven. The "numbers" I was talking about are not W/L but individual statistics.
 

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cklennon said:
Are you really going to pull out wins and losses as a statistic by which we should measure QBs? I suppose you're one who believes that starting pitchers are best measured by their W-L records too, hmm?

Get a grip. Football is a TEAM sport. The premise of "giving" a QB wins and losses any more than "giving" them to the RB or WR is absurd, so using that as a statistic to value players is rediculous.

Do you really believe Rex Grossman is a top QB in the NFL? Point proven. The "numbers" I was talking about are not W/L but individual statistics.


Its only ridiculous to you. You on one hand are only interested in statistics. The rest of us, including the leagues hottest rookie, is interested in wins for his team not the individual.

So you can have lienart with his 400 yd passing games that end in losses and i will take Vince young with his 163 passing games that end in wins.

thats my only concern.
 

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