UFC Fight Night 130 Liverpool

[PatsFan1283]

You can critique his fighting style but most still would say he won 3 out of the first 4 rds.

He was winning most of the exchanges and landed more significant strikes. If he really had no power then Till would've just jumped inside all fight and walked through his punches, but he didn't for a reason. Because WB's striking was keeping him at bay.

Yeah, he had the biggest punch of the fight by far but we're not talking about who hurt who more really, we're talking about who won more rds in a 5 rd fight.

 

[Mobdeeper7239]

You can critique his fighting style but most still would say he won 3 out of the first 4 rds. Perhaps a few of those you make as a draw and then the fight is a draw.

He was winning most of the exchanges and landed more significant strikes. If he really had no power then Till would've just jumped inside all fight and walked through his punches, but he didn't for a reason. Because WB's striking was keeping him at bay.

Yeah, he had the biggest punch of the fight by far but we're not talking about who hurt who more really, we're talking about who won more rds in a 5 rd fight.

Thompson has reach, that's why. Dude isn't afraid of Thompson's power, please. Save that talk for Runmaker, not me.

Like I said when there is a narrative to a fight...and the narrative turns out to be false....they give more credit for the person who overcame that. Thompson was not aggressive enough. You can land more weak shots and still lose. It is called getting dropped....it is called not being aggressive enough. It is called looking more beat up..... it is called running for your life when you are in trouble.....

Sometimes the eye test is what the judges are looking at. If the dude can't impress the judges then he's not going to win. And whether or not Thompson landed more....he looked like a 13 year old girl while throwing and that's not going to win a fight vs someone who is a beast.

Thompson was in better shape right? And still didn't impress. That is the type of shit the judges already are aware of...hard to ignore that narrative when the point of the fight where Til is suppose to be getting tired and the fight is EXPECTED to take a turn.....but doesn't. That's what you guys are missing. Thompson had the chance to take over the fight....and got dropped. Case closed.

 

[PatsFan1283]

Oh, so now you're saying the judges were being subjective about the result and using their own interpretation of the rules to give Till a victory?

I thought you just said he clearly won. If judges interpretation is why he won then it's more subjective than you think.

You're talking in circles.

If Wonderboy didn't have the power to hurt Till, Till wouldn't have fought so strategically and cautiously. That kinda just goes w/o saying.

 

[PatsFan1283]

And if any judge made the conscious decision to favor a guy because he missed weight and the other guy was supposed to be in "better shape", that judge is a stone moron.

Just stick with Thompson wasn't aggressive enough and lost a close decision for it. The further you go in making your case, the more outlandish your points get.

 

[Mobdeeper7239]

Oh, so now you're saying the judges were being subjective about the result and using their own interpretation of the rules to give Till a victory?

I thought you just said he clearly won. If judges interpretation is why he won then it's more subjective than you think.

You're talking in circles.

If Wonderboy didn't have the power to hurt Till, Till wouldn't have fought so strategically and cautiously. That kinda just goes w/o saying.

Both. He won the fight and the judges saw it that way most likely....as did I. They graded pretty fairly. I don't care about what the score of the rounds were, I just know Til won the fight however you want to grade it. I have seen many times the person who lands more lose. It means less when the shots are thrown by some pussy ass hands. All he has is length, some kicks, and a decent chin. Not bad...but problem is when your insides are made up of a 13 year old girl....that shows on the outside.

 

[Mobdeeper7239]

And if any judge made the conscious decision to favor a guy because he missed weight and the other guy was supposed to be in "better shape", that judge is a stone moron.

Just stick with Thompson wasn't aggressive enough and lost a close decision for it. The further you go in making your case, the more outlandish your points get.

It's not about him being in better shape..

It's about when that POINT in the fight comes..... After seeing how close it was before then..... Thompson should have took over given the narrative. But he didn't.. that was his chance to take control of the fight. He got dropped. Lol. So who the fuck do you really think they are going to give it to at that point?!?!!? Think dude. The fight was not lopsided either way before the 4th round. Which is when Til was suppose to start looking gassed.


So stupid to just say statistics mean everything. Shit actually happens during a fight you know. Enflameo for sure needs to understand statistics aren't the driving force to everything in life. The end all be all. No

 

[PatsFan1283]

Why don't you care about what the score of the rds were? Yeah in close fights it doesn't always tell the story of who imposed their will, but it is the metric of the sport to decide who wins.

Like the first Woodley/Thompson fight, Woodley hurt him way more in rd 1 and 4 and WB won rd 2/3/5 where nothing significant really happened. So the fight went to a draw despite the fact Woodley did more damage and dominated at times in the fight.

The point you're trying to make and I'll make it for you is that you think the way WB fights that he steals rds where no one is imposing their will. That's fine as a critique of him stylistically and it also can make you prone to losing decisions where perhaps other judges/analysts would give you the decision, but it doesn't mean it is a no brainer that he lost because of that. Which is the conclusion you've jumped to.

You're taking your subjective interpretation of what you want the sport to be and saying WB isn't that so therefore he should lose close decisions. That's fine, but when we're betting obviously all we're trying to analyze is who has a better chance to win the fight than the odds indicate. Not really what styles we prefer to see prevail.

 

[Mobdeeper7239]

Why don't you care about what the score of the rds were? Yeah in close fights it doesn't always tell the story of who imposed their will, but it is the metric of the sport to decide who wins.

Like the first Woodley/Thompson fight, Woodley hurt him way more in rd 1 and 4 and WB won rd 2/3/5 where nothing significant really happened. So the fight went to a draw despite the fact Woodley did more damage and dominated at times in the fight.

The point you're trying to make and I'll make it for you is that you think the way WB fights that he steals rds where no one is imposing their will. That's fine as a critique of him stylistically and it also can make you prone to losing decisions where perhaps other judges/analysts would give you the decision, but it doesn't mean it is a no brainer that he lost because of that. Which is the conclusion you've jumped to.

You're taking your subjective interpretation of what you want the sport to be and saying WB isn't that so therefore he should lose close decisions. That's fine, but when we're betting obviously all we're trying to analyze is who has a better chance to win the fight than the odds indicate. Not really what styles we prefer to see prevail.

NO I'm not. I'm talking about THIS fight. Not any other fights. THIS fight he lost because of those reasons but mainly because he was going against someone superior to his will. Go find that interview he had before Woodley whooped his ass the 2nd fight and tell me I'm bugging. Dude is a pussy. And he went against someone is FAR from a pussy. Not saying that's all to look at..... everything matters. But this is fighting. Not playing cricket or swimming laps.


I haven't followed his career like that. I just know what I saw in the Woodley situation.

He might win fights vs lower competition. But not against people who are legit bad asses. The odds were decent and reasonable...nothing astronomical.

 

[PatsFan1283]

"Should've taken over given the narrative" shouldn't matter to the judges. If that is a variable in giving someone a rd then them winning is far from a slam dunk you claim it to be. None of that should matter when judging a fight.

I think it's pretty clear you hate his style of fighting/demeanor and think he shouldn't win close rds for it and are using that as a justification for why it is such a no brainer 100% slam dunk that he lost the fight. But if you think he just lost 3-4 rds of that fight then there isn't much else to say.

I said I thought he won 3 rds, I never said it was Pacquiao/Bradley 2 and a massive highway robbery. I thought there was a very good chance that most of the press/analysts would think he won but he wouldn't get a decision in Liverpool.

 

[MattyMatt]

MM probably done for the day since the chances of anyone he knows becoming UFC champ just went from like 20% to 0% but was looking for his take on RDA/Covington.

Covington is a smothering wrestler with a size advantage, that's an interesting combination to be an underdog against RDA.

I couldn’t careless about “someone I know being champ”.shit I’ve got belt and trophies from state and national championships myself. That is not what Martial Arts is about. Wonderboy displays it perfectly,though,and it sucks the World we live I will never see it as so anymore,but...

I will give my analysis on the Cody/RDA Fight when the time comes,i.e. before next weekend...

 

[Mobdeeper7239]

"Should've taken over given the narrative" shouldn't matter to the judges. If that is a variable in giving someone a rd then them winning is far from a slam dunk you claim it to be. None of that should matter when judging a fight.

I think it's pretty clear you hate his style of fighting/demeanor and think he shouldn't win close rds for it and are using that as a justification for why it is such a no brainer 100% slam dunk that he lost the fight. But if you think he just lost 3-4 rds of that fight then there isn't much else to say.

I said I thought he won 3 rds, I never said it was Pacquiao/Bradley 2 and a massive highway robbery. I thought there was a very good chance that most of the press/analysts would think he won but he wouldn't get a decision in Liverpool.

But the judges are not robots dawg. They are human beings. And it's human nature to think about the narrative. Every narrative is unique for every fight.

I don't like him as a fighter. I wouldn't call it "style". I said.....his style is not bad. I called him a decent fighter. Said good length, decent chin, and solid kicks. So what are you failing to understand? His will. He is a pussy for a fighter. That is clear as day to me. Probably clear to others as well, I don't know. .but I know for one I would have been extremely shocked if any judge would have gave him that fight.

Canello GGG fight was closer than this was truthfully.

 

[MattyMatt]

But the judges are not robots dawg. They are human beings. And it's human nature to think about the narrative. Every narrative is unique for every fight.

I don't like him as a fighter. I wouldn't call it "style". I said.....his style is not bad. I called him a decent fighter. Said good length, decent chin, and solid kicks. So what are you failing to understand? His will. He is a pussy for a fighter. That is clear as day to me. Probably clear to others as well, I don't know. .but I know for one I would have been extremely shocked if any judge would have gave him that fight.

Canello GGG fight was closer than this was truthfully.

If you think about the narrative,you should’nt be a judge on any level of fighting,period.

You should keep up with nothing on the fights you’re scheduled to work,and that’s it.

 

[Mobdeeper7239]

You keep saying I hate his style lol. He has been a champion. Not saying I hate his style. He doesn't have a killer mentality. Actually he has the exact opposite. I don't like him as a fighter.

 

[PatsFan1283]

But the judges are not robots dawg. They are human beings. And it's human nature to think about the narrative. Every narrative is unique for every fight.

I don't like him as a fighter. I wouldn't call it "style". I said.....his style is not bad. I called him a decent fighter. Said good length, decent chin, and solid kicks. So what are you failing to understand? His will. He is a pussy for a fighter. That is clear as day to me. Probably clear to others as well, I don't know. .but I know for one I would have been extremely shocked if any judge would have gave him that fight.

Canello GGG fight was closer than this was truthfully.

Nobody said that judges don't make their own interpretations.

The point is that if they are doing that and it is a reason Till won, then someone that thinks WB won isn't a "fucking idiot" or on "crack"

Most of the press, everyone I've talked to about it pretty much said the same thing "Thought WB won a close 1 but didn't do enough to get a decision in Liverpool and it's not the worst decison or anything."


style/mentality/etc....That's semantics, you know what I meant. You don't like his mode of operation, is that better?

 

[Mobdeeper7239]

If you think about the narrative,you should’nt be a judge on any level of fighting,period.

You should keep up with nothing on the fights you’re scheduled to work,and that’s it.

So judges aren't aware of fighters missing weight and still fighting? How is that possible?

 

[Mobdeeper7239]

Nobody said that judges don't make their own interpretations.

The point is that if they are doing that and it is a reason Till won, then someone that thinks WB won isn't a "fucking idiot" or on "crack"

Most of the press, everyone I've talked to about it pretty much said the same thing "Thought WB won a close 1 but didn't do enough to get a decision in Liverpool and it's not the worst decison or anything."

They're blatantly wrong then. If I called any of you a fucking idiot over your opinion on this I apologize.

 

[PatsFan1283]

Hopefully this doesn't jack up the thread like other cut and pastes do. If there was a major flaw in my analysis it was not factoring in how much of a decision/subjective fighter WB can be and how that's a horrible combination for fighting Till in Liverpool. That's where my blindspot was in the fight. Intangibles tend to get extremely overrated when people are breaking down athletic events, but this is a case where I should've put more stock into 1.

Sean Ross Sapp
Fightful.com 48-47 Till
Jed Meshew
MMAFighting.com 48-47 Till
Chris Nelson
Sherdog.com 48-49 Thompson
Phil Murphy
ESPN 47-48 Thompson
José Youngs
FanSided.com 47-48 Thompson
Dominik Durniat
Polsat Sport 47-48 Thompson
Alexander K. Lee
MMAFighting.com 47-48 Thompson
Matthew Wells
FanSided.com 47-48 Thompson
MMAJunkie.com 47-48 Thompson
MMAMania.com 47-48 Thompson
Brian Knapp
Sherdog.com 47-48 Thompson
Drake Riggs
BJPenn.com 47-48 Thompson
Dayne Fox
BloodyElbow.com 47-48 Thompson
Tristen Critchfield
Sherdog.com 47-49 Thompson
Steve Duncan
mma.uno 46-49 Thompson
MMABrasil.com.br 46-49 Thompson
Rob Tatum
CombatPress.com 46-49 Thompson
Nathan McCarter
BleacherReport.com 46-49 Thompson
Chris Connor
The Fight City 46-49 Thompson
Tim Burke
BloodyElbow.com 46-49 Thompson
Nick Baldwin
BloodyElbow.com 46-49 Thompson
Ryan Frederick
WrestlingObserver.com 46-49 Thompson
Kendrick Johnson
The Ring 46-49 Thompson
SevereMMA.com 46-49 Thompson

 

[MattyMatt]

The 30-27 split decision from these judges on this card was avoidable too. But guys,here lies the problem,judges at the higher levels are never reprimanded,at all. Oh the stories I can tell you,all of us would lose our jobs anywhere else instantly,and would expect to...

 

[MattyMatt]

So judges aren't aware of fighters missing weight and still fighting? How is that possible?

If a judge uses anything outside of what happened Inside the octagon in the fight,then yes,they’re corrupt.

Not to mention,everything you’ve mentioned so far isn’t a scoring criteria,even cage control. Cage control should ONLY BE scored if everything else (striking/grappling) was dead even (both damage and production). It wasn’t,and I’ll tell you the same way Big John will tell you,if you have to go to cage control or aggression to judge a fight,you didn’t pay attention enough. It should be rare,very rare. They don’t even score defense anymore,and haven’t in years...

 

[PatsFan1283]

If a judge uses anything outside of what happened Inside the octagon in the fight,then yes,they’re corrupt.

Not to mention,everything you’ve mentioned so far isn’t a scoring criteria,even cage control. Cage control should ONLY BE scored if everything else (striking/grappling) was dead even (both damage and production). It wasn’t,and I’ll tell you the same way Big John will tell you,if you have to go to cage control or aggression to judge a fight,you didn’t pay attention enough. It should be rare,very rare. They don’t even score defense anymore,and haven’t in years...

Like I said on the 1st page, we knew going in that WB wasn't winning a close decision in Liverpool.

He just isn't marketable at all, getting older, in the other fighters hometown. Just 1 of those things, pretty cut and dry result. If Mobb didn't think that Till clearly won and anyone that disagreed was nuts then there wouldn't have even been much to talk about with the result. Wasn't the least bit shocking.