The Cubs Suck.....

[mrpotter1]

Prior started 19 games the year before Baker arrived (he started 21 last season).

Zambrano pitched in 32 games (16 starts) the year before Baker arrived and 31 games (31 starts) last season.

They also had Clement and Lieber (20-game winner in 2001) in their rotation before Baker arrived.

Prior was in his rookie year. Zambrano also was just staring out the year before Baker got here and was not the same pitcher that year. TheCubs got Ramirez,Lofton and Simon for absolutely nothing. Nomar and Maddux for nothing. Matt Lawton for nothing. This teams downfall started when Dusty beig Dusty allowed his players to blame the announcers on them losing games last year because he wanted to continue to be a "players manager". Nobody sees more Cubs games then me and I am telling you that Dusty Baker is SOFT!!!

 

[ClipJoint]

Cubs Lineup in 2002 67-95 (Year before Baker)

C-Giraldi
1b-McGriff
2b-Bellhorn
3b-Mueller
SS-Alex Gonzalez
LF-Alou
CF-Patterson
RF-Sosa


Clip - how many of these are better that 2005 Cubs? I'll give you the whole outfield, and thats it.

:lolBIG:

That's it? Isn't that enough? Where did they upgrade?

Wouldn't you need to make some major improvements roster wise when your team wins less than 70 games when you are in the same division as Houston and St. Louis?

Lee puts up Sosa numbers...Ramirez puts up McGriff numbers. Who replaces Alou and Bellhorn's power?

Hundley split time with Girardi and they couldn't hit for much so Barrett is an upgrade.

Let's just say the team is on par with that 2002 team talent wise...and that is a stretch considering they lost Flash Gordon and others from an already bad bullpen. But if they are even talent wise, why should Baker be called upon to do any more than what he did in his first 2 seasons there when he added over 20 wins to their total?

 

[ClipJoint]

This teams downfall started when Dusty beig Dusty allowed his players to blame the announcers on them losing games last year because he wanted to continue to be a "players manager". Nobody sees more Cubs games then me and I am telling you that Dusty Baker is SOFT!!!

That may be true and I am not arguing that point. I agree that he needs to go just as I have said all along. He has worn out his welcome and the team is not responding to him.

But to act like this team has the talent to compete with St. Louis and Houston in this division is laughable. You can't blame a manager that over achieved in his first 2 seasons when the talent is no better than when he arrived.

They needed 3 things desperately:

#1- A bullpen
#2- A leadoff hitter
#3- A catcher

They got a solid catcher...

Now they need power since that has been depleted with McGriff, Alou, and Sosa being gone. They still have a horrid bullpen and don't have a leadoff hitter.

It doesn't matter who manages this team next year...maybe they will play harder. But they can't win without talent.

 

[mrpotter1]

:lolBIG:

That's it? Isn't that enough? Where did they upgrade?

Wouldn't you need to make some major improvements roster wise when your team wins less than 70 games when you are in the same division as Houston and St. Louis?

Lee puts up Sosa numbers...Ramirez puts up McGriff numbers. Who replaces Alou and Bellhorn's power?

Hundley split time with Girardi and they couldn't hit for much so Barrett is an upgrade.

Let's just say the team is on par with that 2002 team talent wise...and that is a stretch considering they lost Flash Gordon and others from an already bad bullpen. But if they are even talent wise, why should Baker be called upon to do any more than what he did in his first 2 seasons there when he added over 20 wins to their total?

In case you haven't seen the latest stats, Jeremy Burnitz is a huge upgrade over Sammy Sosa this year. Granted he isn't Sheffield but he is still an upgrade over Sosa today in the present.

 

[mrpotter1]

Alou and Sosa in 2002 are the only 2 players on that team that could have started on this years team. So, I don't understand why you think those 2 teams are on par.

 

[mrpotter1]

That may be true and I am not arguing that point. I agree that he needs to go just as I have said all along. He has worn out his welcome and the team is not responding to him.

But to act like this team has the talent to compete with St. Louis and Houston in this division is laughable. You can't blame a manager that over achieved in his first 2 seasons when the talent is no better than when he arrived.

They needed 3 things desperately:

#1- A bullpen
#2- A leadoff hitter
#3- A catcher

They got a solid catcher...

Now they need power since that has been depleted with McGriff, Alou, and Sosa being gone. They still have a horrid bullpen and don't have a leadoff hitter.

It doesn't matter who manages this team next year...maybe they will play harder. But they can't win without talent.

You have to admit that this team over the last 2 seasons has dealt with more major injuies than any other team in the league. They almost won the wild-card last year basically without Wood and Prior if not for a collapse in the last 10 days.

 

[mrpotter1]

Let's not forget Todd Hundley for Grudzelanik and Karros.

 

[ClipJoint]

You have to admit that this team over the last 2 seasons has dealt with more major injuies than any other team in the league. They almost won the wild-card last year basically without Wood and Prior if not for a collapse in the last 10 days.

So the manager gets no credit for that...only for having a losing team this season?

Like I keep saying...the expectations for this team to win are because Baker has had this team over achieving since he arrived. Now they are playing at the level of their talent and he catches the heat.

 

[mrpotter1]

So the manager gets no credit for that...only for having a losing team this season?

Like I keep saying...the expectations for this team to win are because Baker has had this team over achieving since he arrived. Now they are playing at the level of their talent and he catches the heat.

The expectations for this team to win are because they raised their payroll from 75 million to 100 million because Dusty Baker is here. Dusty keeps saying in the press that they have all the talent they need to compete. This team plays to the level of their competition and that is the fault of the manager. They should treat Cinci and Pitt. like they are St. Louis because the last time I checked all wins count the same.

 

[ClipJoint]

The expectations for this team to win are because they raised their payroll from 75 million to 100 million because Dusty Baker is here. Dusty keeps saying in the press that they have all the talent they need to compete. This team plays to the level of their competition and that is the fault of the manager. They should treat Cinci and Pitt. like they are St. Louis because the last time I checked all wins count the same.

So they raised their payroll by $25 million and it is debatable whether or not they have anymore talent than in the past. Is that the managers fault?

He won with a smaller payroll with the same team that couldn't win the year before. I understand it is this day and age's mentality that the only thing that matters is the present, and he should go. But it is funny how the guy was a genius in San Francisco and a savior for 2 years in Chicago and all of the sudden is just ignorant.

This teams payroll being $25 million higher and the talent in that lineup should get the GM fired. That is pathetic.

Lee and Ramirez are studs...outside of that, this team has no offense.

You would think with a $100 million payroll they might want to get a closer (and about 3 other relievers), a leadoff hitter, and some protection for Lee/Ramirez.

The injuries seem to be a great excuse for the GM, but not for the manager. How does that make any sense?

 

[mrpotter1]

So they raised their payroll by $25 million and it is debatable whether or not they have anymore talent than in the past. Is that the managers fault?

He won with a smaller payroll with the same team that couldn't win the year before. I understand it is this day and age's mentality that the only thing that matters is the present, and he should go. But it is funny how the guy was a genius in San Francisco and a savior for 2 years in Chicago and all of the sudden is just ignorant.

This teams payroll being $25 million higher and the talent in that lineup should get the GM fired. That is pathetic.

Lee and Ramirez are studs...outside of that, this team has no offense.

You would think with a $100 million payroll they might want to get a closer (and about 3 other relievers), a leadoff hitter, and some protection for Lee/Ramirez.

The injuries seem to be a great excuse for the GM, but not for the manager. How does that make any sense?

Clip, let's just agree to disagree. :lolBIG:

 

[ClipJoint]

Clip, let's just agree to disagree. :lolBIG:

For sure...I love the topic and debate. I am not disagreeing with you. I just can't believe how much heat Baker is taking when this team has been over achieving because of him in previous years.

I agree 100% that he needs to go, but I don't blame him for them not being a contender. It would take a miracle to compete with that lineup they are putting out there.

Fun topic though...:toast:

 

[mrpotter1]

For sure...I love the topic and debate. I am not disagreeing with you. I just can't believe how much heat Baker is taking when this team has been over achieving because of him in previous years.

I agree 100% that he needs to go, but I don't blame him for them not being a contender. It would take a miracle to compete with that lineup they are putting out there.

Fun topic though...:toast:

I definitely think the players have quit. You can see it in their faces.

 

[jdub6810]

hope nobody's on the cubs today...how stupid can you be :finger:

can't tell whose worse cubs or royals.

 

[5teamparlay]

Thought I would add this VIDEO in this thread:

http://media.putfile.com/cubsfans