The Bible doesn't always seem to make a lot of sense, so why should I read it?

[SSI]

so you want me to answer the question of who made God, if God made everything else. if i did answer this then you would say well who made that one and it would never end..

better to ask you, how we and everything else got here. we are here in front of our computers on a forum. we are not a mirage or someone's dream that we are all in.. the universe and everything in it are real. How did they get here? You obviously believe in the big bang and evolution theroy, is this correct? answer this, are you an atheist? if so explain why.

The People's Champ

 

[Bitterlittleman]

First of all, can we please stop with the double posting. It is annoying.

The big bang theory trys to explain the origin of space and time. Before that, there was arguably nothing.

There is also a theory that the sum of all matter in the universe is equal to zero. This is calculating the sum of matter and anti-matter.

 

[SSI]

but xpanda wants to know where the big bang came from. who caused it, who created the things necessary to cause it, and who or how were those things created.. something or someone was there. explain who or what it was.. your stating that "NOTHING" exploded in the big bang and created everything in perfect order, now boy thats a good one..

Life doesnt come from non-life, and something (like a universe) doesnt come from nothing..

The People's Champ

 

[Bitterlittleman]

"In beginning there was nothing - no galaxies, no stars, no planets, and no life. There was no matter at all, not even tiny particles existed. So how was something as huge and complex as the Universe created out of nothing?

The answer lies in marrying the science of the very small (quantum theory) with the very large (cosmology). Amazingly, quantum theory says that bubbles of energy can appear temporarily out of absolutely nothing.

Normally these bubbles 'pop' as soon as they are formed. In order for one to survive, one of these transient bubbles must have had an intense outward push. Only then could this tiny bubble go on to evolve into the immense Universe around us. Inflation is the best theory to date to describe how this might have happened. It involves a short period of extremely rapid expansion, where the Universe grew by a factor of a 10 to the power 60 (that's a million billion billion billion billion billion billion!). It expanded from smaller than the size of a proton to the size of a grapefruit in a tiny fraction of a second. This then kick started the Big Bang and the creation of everything in the Universe.

This theory has sparked some mind-blowing ideas - including the possibility that inflation may be an ongoing process and not just a unique event that created our own Universe. Somewhere else in the Universe, bubbles of energy might be appearing and creating other universes that grow off our own. And our Universe may have originally budded out from another. We may be just one of many multiverses, in an evolution without beginning or end."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/space/origins/inflation/index.shtml

*************************

decided to post the entire article.

 

[SportSavant]

SSI,

atheiasts & agnostics are not proposing to explain everything, how life evovled, the big bang theory etc etc etc...

they are far beyond thier ability to explain...

all they are saying is that the 'bible' the 'quran' & the books of other organized religions are also not perfect explanations but rather theories & tools used by people to fulfill the overwhelming need they have to explain their existence.

The quote earlier in this thread says it best:

"If there was not a God, Humans would find the need to create one".

Isnt it amazing that you can go from one corner of the other & you will find no matter where you go, people beleive in some sort of religion/god or another. Is it not presumptious to presume that only Christians have the correct book?

What do you say to a Hindi, a Muslim a Jew or a Budhist? will God accept these people? how do you explain all of this?

 

[SSI]

well what caused the bubbles of energy, this line of discussion is silly. i dont care to continue it..

truthteller, id like to know about the Old Testament not being 100% accurate, what are some of the inaccuracies? id like to have a go at explaining them..

The People's Champ

 

[jointpleasures]

I sometimes think it's better for the libs to believe in no god or a dead god, because if they ever wised up enough to realize there is a living God, they would no doubt label him a racist or a sexist in this politically correct enviroment anyways.

Ignorance is curable with knowledge. Beware of the traditions of man, in religion.

 

[SSI]

savant, why do most atheist want you to prove where God came from, couldnt it be beyond our comprehension.. The Bible states the beginning from the end and the end from the beginning.. accurate prophecy is what makes it different, it was written by many different men from all walks of life over a 1500 year period, yet flows together smoothly without any discrepencies..

The People's Champ

 

[SportSavant]

SSI,

is it not possible, that from a scientific standpoint it is also impossible to explain or prove our existence?

why do those who support religion always ask the scientists to prove certain things that they know cannot be proven... just becauz things are strange or cannot be explained does not always IMO mean that the cauz of them are dirvine intervention?

what about my question re the other religion's all over the world?

 

[xpanda]

I'm not asking who caused the big bang. I was only pointing out the flaw in the logic that says if that tree is there, then god must have created it. There is much science being done (of which I understand perhaps one millionth) that indicates that the one chance in 10 to the power of 123 is their best guess at this time.

Where I am different from religious types, is that I don't claim to know jack. I don't really care how I got here, or how humans got here, or who made who or what and blah blah ... I care about what we're doing now that we're here. What I see is this manmade institution that has caused more sorrow, suffering, and a host of other horrors by us, on us, for no reason other than something that even you guys can't (and don't want) to explain.

SSI, to answer your question, yes, I am an atheist (not to be confused with anti-theists who are against religion, atheists don't care about the whole thing.) I am more inclined to believe in the fifth dimension or astrology or ghosts than god.

You say that if a god exists I will have needed to believe in him/her/it in order to enter heaven. I say bollocks; my actions will speak for themselves. However, if you are right, and belief is the only precursor, you'd best hope that god's name isn't Allah ...

 

[SportSavant]

xpanda, this is exactly what I am trying to say?

not trying to explain anything, simply pointing out that ANY religion does not offer explanation either?

as-well the notion you pointed out about Allah... makes alot of sense... very presumptious of Muslims & Christians alike to presume they are the only ones who are correct...

buhdism to me is a much more realistic religion.

 

[xpanda]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SportSavant:

as-well the notion you pointed out about Allah... makes alot of sense... very presumptious of Muslims & Christians alike to presume they are the only ones who are correct...

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I read a wonderful essay a couple of years back arguing that Mohammed and Jesus were the same person. I'll see if I can dig that up.

Oh, and I do believe in the existence of Jesus. I just don't believe that his mother was a virgin and that he was the son of god. Maybe I'm really Jewish??

 

[PatPatriot]

Real Americans know that Jesus was only jewish on his mothers side...lol.

 

[SSI]

i value your opinions (everyone) and your entitled to them. however in the end either the Bible is wrong or you are.. and i say that in the nicest way.

savant if you find Buddhism the best, then by all means try and learn about it and follow it.. i started this by saying it is a choice and you must choose for yourself..

ill try and dig up a little more, as long as we keep this civil, i enjoy and am thankful for the opportunity to express my belief in the Bible..

The People's Champ

 

[PatPatriot]

SSI Keep the faith brother.

 

[SSI]

let me tell you another one:

the history of the pony express forms a fascinating part of the american west. these dedicated riders carried the mail from missouri to california over 1900 miles and enduring the dangers along the way. the pony express required 500 of the strongest and fastest horses the company could find. incredibly 40 men rode these horses in relays with each man riding in 50 mile increments. using 4 relays per day the riders traveled up to 200 miles per day and could cover the 1900 miles in 10 days.

in order to cut down on any unnecessary weight the riders would use the lightest saddles, they would carry no rifles, the letters were written on the thinest of paper with the rate of $5 an ounce (equal to about $200 per letter in todays currency). the managers of the system believed that the Bible was so important that they presented each rider that signed up a full size pony express Bible. suprisingly, despite their overwhelming concerning for reducing weight of the riders equipement, every single one of the riders carried the Bible as part of their regular gear..

true story.

The People's Champ

 

[SSI]

guys for anyone interested, watch TBN tonight at 6 PM CST, Dr. Carl Baugh has a program that airs for 30 minutes, he is not a preacher but a scientist.. It could be interesting, or it could be good for some laughs (for some of you). and NO i do not watch TBN or any of the TV evangelist (lets not go there). this man is a scientist and i do on occasion watch his program..

The People's Champ

 

[truthteller]

SSI,

How do u explain the 2 creation stories in Genesis. Genesis 1:1 and Genesis 2:4?

 

[Marco]

Quote from SSI: "Marco: Your points are not relateable, Jesus never spoke of Berkshire Hathaway or gas prices, the subject was the Bible..We are discussing whats talked about in the Bible.."

My points are absolutely relateable, to one of your earlier points about Jesus claiming that in the final days the last generation would witness the greatest earthquakes in history.

Who's to say we haven't seen the greatest earthquakes in history....anymore than who's to say we haven't seen the highest gas prices in history?

The bible claims all these disasters to happen upon the final generation....we can only speculate the magnitude of these events....

If one looks at the power of the black plague and how many people it wiped out, I'm sure there were people back then figuring that the end of the world was near....and that was how many centuries ago, and the world is still spinning and the sun is still rising in the east and setting in the west.

My analogy is correct comparing gas prices with the scale of earthquakes because in both comparisons had Jesus claimed there were going to be huge earthquakes or huge gas prices....we still in all probability have not seen the largest earthquakes and we still in all probability have not seen the highest gas prices. It may take thousands of years to see the greatest earthquakes ever experienced...one can only speculate as to the condition of things to come or thier severity.

If there really is some doomsday for mankind then one can only speculate when it will be and the magnitude of the disasters shortly before that day happening...

I see SportSavant eluding to what I said in earlier postings about the claims of other religions and whether or not these religions have any validity to them....

I am sure the Koran and other religious doctrines have thier own morality passages that serve as a guideline for thier followers....the real truth will be unknown and argued about for decades and centuries to come until or if some doomsday scenario happens....until then I guess all the religious people on the planet will be staunch and unyielding in thier beliefs.....time will be the only way to tell who is correct in thier belief or if any of them at all are correct....reality may include some type of religious belief, and then again it may not.

I'm just glad the court system in the U.S. relies on scientific evidence as a basis as to whether or not a person is guilty of a certain crime....without such a system people would just be dragged from thier houses and convicted because someone "believed" they were guilty....no need to bring any solid evidence to the courtroom when you have "belief"...

 

[SSI]

marco, im merely talking about Jesus said in the last days there would be an increase in earthquakes (end of point). the discussion was, things in the bible,, what if i predicted the braves win the series this year.. they may or they may not, thats irrelevant to the topic..

your other point is valid, there may be greater earthquakes to come. good point about the black plague, also could look at the extermination of the Jews by Hitler or even the Civil War here in the US.. all were very bad events and the world has kept ticking...... but here is my point, there has been certain criteria met now that was not met at the time of the black plague. Number 1 on the list was the recreation of the state of Isreal. i dont want to go back through this list again but there are MANY things that set this generation apart from the previous ones.... surely you cant doubt the explosion of knowledge, the cashless society, the resurfacing of the old roman empire, there are many things that set this time apart..

as for the courts, im glad also that you have to have solid proof.. i think the Bible is provable however, and you do not. we can still be friends..

The People's Champ