Fletch, you have soooo much to learn -- about everything. If knowing your 'enemy' (I use that term figuratively) is vital to defeating him, you'll never accomplish your objectives because you don't understand where the Christian is coming from on ANY given issue and why Christians believe the things they do. I know because I read your posts and can't believe some of the nonsense you believe Christians believe. But I guess reading leftists like Chomsky will do that to a man. In other words, you have been taught what Christians and conservative Republicans believe thorough the secular perspective, which is laughable -- almost as laughable as secular values themselves...not quite, but close. Christians never believed the Earth was flat, Fletch. lol
As someone who prides himself as an intelligent, independent thinking person, you need to put away your strawmen, cleanse yourself of these secular values and read -- READ, READ, READ -- and find out what Christians believe and say about on given issue. I suppose you're doing some of that by reading and participating in my threads, but it's not nearly enough to achieve true enlightenment.
On the other hand, I do know where YOU are coming from -- the modern PC liberal secular perspective -- which makes your arguments easy to rebut.
Now, before I run off topic any further, let me say I agree with about half of your post. So let us for argument's sake accept your assertion about gays: it's a mental disorder, which just happens to be my position as well. No different than mental retardation, just on a different level.
So, if this true, why is the left afraid of treating homosexuals the way we treat retarded people? Why instead is the left wanting to 'normalize' and integrate homosexuality into society? Why does the left want to work homosexuality into the school curriculum -- school books and plays? Why does the left consider what you just wrote 'hate' speech? What the hell are they afraid of? The truth? WTF are we living in the dark ages now? Why are we are starting to refer to the SEXES as 'genders' with "transgenders' now slowly being worked into the 'system'? People are being brainwashed, fletch -- and it's not Judeo-Christians who are doing it. It's not those of us with Judeo-Christian values who are dumbing down (conditioning people how to think and what to think) the population.
Talk about Pandora's box....without the love, guidance and WISDOM of God, man is an imbecile, fletch. It is damn near impossible to discern between 'right' and 'wrong'.
Fletch, listen to me -- the left is sick -- SICK, I TELL YA.
uke1:Interesting that you say such a thing, seeing that when I read your posts it's incredible what you believe other posters (like me, for example) believe.
For instance, you wrote somewhere that liberals believe that reason will always lead to good. Well, perhaps some idealists indeed believe this, but all realistic people know this is nonsense. It doesn't take a God to see that sharp minds can and do a lot of harm.
Does it ever occur to you that there are quite a lot of Christians in the world and that they hardly ever agree on any single point? Probably not, because you always believe that everybody agrees or should agree with your opinion.
This argument, of course, assumes there is a God.
I know this is a foreign concept to you, but good arguments are founded on fact, not faith.
Believe me, it doesn't take me very long to figure out where a person is coming from politically. Oh, it's not that I'm a mind reader or am pretending to think for any given individual, it's that language reveals everything. When someone uses phrases like "neocon agenda", "Christians hate gays", "Americans are imperialists" and asserts quite arrogantly that there is no God, I have a pretty strong idea of what this individual's political mental makeup is composed of, how it got that way, and why they believe the things they do.
Since so few ideas and thoughts are original -- most people don't have the time to think through a singular idea that a book or thesis on any given subject can do -- it stands to reason that there are only so many sources that drive opinion.
So, for example, if I want to know where Joe Peacenik on the street is coming from, all I have to do is read authors who are 1000 steps ahead of him on any given subject and I can map out a fairly accurate profile of Joe Peacenik.
"Neocon agenda", Preussen? I take it this is your own original thought? Where did Preussen get that, I wonder?
:lol::think:
I didn't write this but, yes, I agree with this statement.
So for the man who says there is no God, where then does morality originate? What moral underpinnings are you using to ensure that you don't eventually fall off the rails?
Be careful how you answer this, since human history has a darker side than a diamond night sky. The so called "Age of Reason" brought us ideologies such as Nazism, Darwinism, Freudism, Paganism, scientific nonsense like "Global Warming" -- and my favorite -- Marxism. I strongly reject the idea that HUMANITY can survive for any period of time without the love, wisdom and guidance of God -- grounded moral underpinnings upon which modern WESTERN society is built on and has thrived under.
Are you referring to specific set of certain moral do's and don'ts?
Unlike what you may have been taught, morality is NOT subjective -- i.e. smokers have shorter lifespans than non-smokers -- so I'm not sure what your point is.
Are you saying certain Christians or Jews believe homosexuality is the moral equivalent to a healthy heterosexual relationship?
Show me a congregation or denomination that openly endorses the gay lifestyle, abortion, animals as our 'equal' (more Darwiniac lunacy), and that humanity can survive by relying exclusively on the 'sciences'? (Of course, it cannot.)
Don't you mean reason, Preussen? :nohead:
Nothing more fun than seeing an essay which begins right up front with an utterly dishonest premise
"It is simply impossible for a society to embrace both legal approval of homosexuality and the Judeo-Christian tradition."
SH: Though strangely enough the United States of America is a Judeo-Christian based society while also allowing all homosexuality to be legal.
I'd bet a dollar to a donut that this Lawrence cat (who btw looks Super Spiffy in that gay looking turtleneck) misleads his students by telling them that homosexuality is illegal in The United States of America
"It is simply impossible for a society to embrace both legal approval of homosexuality and the Judeo-Christian tradition."
SH: Though strangely enough the United States of America is a Judeo-Christian based society while also allowing all homosexuality to be legal.
I'd bet a dollar to a donut that this Lawrence cat (who btw looks Super Spiffy in that gay looking turtleneck) misleads his students by telling them that homosexuality is illegal in The United States of America
BB dreams: Originally Posted by bblight View Post
When I see a dog or cat or bull taking it up the ass, I'll believe that homosexuality is "natural" - until then I'll continue to believe its a perversion.
SH: Talk to Mark (JoeC). He's the one with all the Funny YouTube videos.
When I see a dog or cat or bull taking it up the ass, I'll believe that homosexuality is "natural" - until then I'll continue to believe its a perversion.
SH: Talk to Mark (JoeC). He's the one with all the Funny YouTube videos.
Actually, I'm not comfortable with Sex of any type being pushed inside schools, whether it be gay or straight. Allow the educators to educate in Arithmetic and science and English and History and subjects that will help them be employed and evolve mentally. While we shouldn't punish or ridicule them or outcast Gays, we also shouldn't celebrate it. Sex is a small part of your life, dont base your entire life around it.
Small part? Mark's made it clear in past that he's celibate (believes that sex outside of marriage makes a woman a Slut)
Though not sure if it counts when he traveled to Cancun last February and trolled the net beforehand for an escort.
Go Mark go....Make those Cancun girls dance!
:hump:
So you don't believe in public sex education? Because if you believe in public sex education, then you have to work in gay sex (and 'transgendered' sex and probably dog sex in a short decade or two as soon as someone convinces themselves they were born with a sexual attraction to animals and want to make a political issue out of it) into the curriculum. It's all about 'discrimination' -- the holy liberal value of making us all walk on our tippy-toes never dare 'offending' anyone.
Not that I support sex education, but that's a different topic.
And do you think this is happening? (Not a rhetorical question, btw.)
Whew! That's a fine line. Do you mean no more Gay Pride parades in SF? Or do you mean Clinton's "don't ask, don't tell?"
Given the size of the porn industry and our liberal sex-crazed culture, I disagree and would say the above statement is inaccurate.
I cannot speak for other posters, but if you know so much about me, why is it that I so often have to ask you "what makes you think I believe [insert opinion JoeC attributed to me]"? The fact is you know next to nothing about me, you just always assume that I believe the exact opposite from your opinion, but this is almost always wrong.
Joe, i think I have said this multiple times before - just because you like to think you know something does not at all mean that you actually do know it.
As should be apparent from my posts, when I write "neocon agenda" I mean "what JoeC thinks is right and should be done". One does not have to be original to realise that you picture the world exactly how you want it, with not even the attempt at thinking about other people's arguments, no matter how obvious their points are.
This is a very difficult question to answer generally. I can only say that I myself follow my own conscience and try not to do anything that I would not want others to do to me. I know full well that this is not enough to keep all people in check, but I also know that it makes no sense to use God as an authority for people who do not believe in God or at least do not fear him enough to let their religion significantly influence their lifes. Even you should be able to see the obvious truth in this statement.
I'm not sure what your point is - or can you explain to me what the fact that smoking is unhealthy has to do with morality?
Unlike what you may believe, morality is most certainly subjective, at least until there is some authority on this subject who is accepted by all, which I think is impossible. Perhaps you believe that your God is this authority, but this is only your belief. Others believe differently and see morality differently - that's what subjectivity is.
I am saying that there are Christians and Jews who have no problems with homosexuality, and that's more than enough for the discussion at hand.
Also, I'd like to point out that you, as usual, spoke very generally, as if there were a single "Christian point of view" for every issue, which could be looked up or learned about somewhere, and this is obviously nonsense.
I meant what I wrote. And I knew you wouldn't be able to give a sensible reply.
