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the bear is back biatches!! printing cancel....
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vix picked up pretty good today but still lot of room to roam till the 30s

20.98 now

vix in the 30s along with high volume will be the next bottom most likely happened everytime to date so no reason to think otherwise....and i'm very confident july wasn't a long term bottom....

guessing around dow 10200 or so....

still holding to my projections i layed out awhile back just taking a bit longer to make the move down

think 10000 holds till 2009 after this plundge

and than in early 2009 the next move down starts which will take out 10000

at that point we can start thinking about some long term bottom type stuff

but need to see how this all develops between now and than....
 

Dr. Is IN
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TIZ do you like DUG right now? Even if oil rebounds, if the market plunges do you see the oil companies(not the physical) jumping way up?
 

the bear is back biatches!! printing cancel....
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think oil and markets gonna move in opposite directions on the near term

markets seems to like to make excuses reasons....and feed the permabulls their near term noise...

so they will blame rising oil when markets going down and cheer on lower oil with markets going up

but longer term the trend is down for oil and up for dug if that makes any sense

think near term oil producers and such will bounce they've taken a pretty good beating of late

honestly my opinions aren't that strong on commodities and such just think they will be flat to down due to the global gloom....minus gold which is a financial doom and gloom safe haven

why worry about them when i'm pretty damn sure where equities are going.....just stick with that.....shorting
 

the bear is back biatches!! printing cancel....
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curious to see how china fairs once they get past olympics

their domestic stock market is just taking an ass whooping was down 5.34% last night

now has gone from 6100 to 2319 since oct of 2007

also on the commodity front think brazil a good signal ball game over at least for a few years

continues to crater and already taken out 200 DMA with conviction and broken the uptrend line for their bull....50 DMA crossing over the 200 DMA etc......looks like they fallen into a bear like everybody else

if i were long oil producers or any other commodity besides gold for that matter i'd be hoping for a bounce to sell into personally

longer term i like them and think will be a great buying opportunity once all this gloom and doom peaks out
 

the bear is back biatches!! printing cancel....
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nikkei getting its tank on tonight down 2.54% an hour into trading
 

the bear is back biatches!! printing cancel....
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http://www.stockhouse.com/Columnists/2008/August/12/Who-is-really-printing-money-

some long term gold charts also at the above link....this guy thinks gold could potentially hit a cyclical bear within a secular bull market in gold

much like the equity markets i believe are in a secular bear since 2000 and just ended a cyclical bull in oct 2007

-----------------------------------------------------------

Challenging the notion that the Fed is "printing money."

A popular mantra among many gold bugs is: “The Fed is printing money.” Any actions by the Fed to support liquidity in the markets are touted as “money creation” and consequently “monetary inflation” which causes gold appreciation. If gold does not rise, they proclaim that there is “manipulation” and “conspiracy.”

It is fair to say that we do not see the picture in such black and white colors.

The main source of new money in the economy is not the Fed but the commercial banks. It is the private banks that increase money supply through debt (new credit) creation.

During a credit crisis which is characterized by a steep slowdown of credit creation, growth of money supply in the financial system slows as well. It is silly to think that the Fed can replace the whole system of commercial banks by creating money itself from thin air. What the Fed can do is influence money supply by adjusting interest rates, creating more or less incentive for the fractional-reserve lending by the commercial banks.

Lately, the Fed has expanded its sphere of influence, but these actions still do not directly cause increases in money supply. The Fed began swapping poor performing assets on the banks’ balance sheets for the high quality treasuries on the Fed’s balance sheet in an effort to improve the financial situation of the banking sector and restore liquidity.

Today, the biggest fear that the Fed has is the fear of deflation. The monetary policymakers understand that (a) sound banking system is a foundation of U.S. economic prosperity and (b) the failure to support the banking system will inevitably cause deflation. We are, therefore, confident that the Fed, headed by Chairman B. Bernanke, will continue to support the banks by creating the best possible environment for the return to a normal cycle of debt/money creation and use everything in its arsenal to prevent deflation.

Going forward, gold will likely resume its up-trend due to one of two reasons:

Another spell of problems in the financial system will cause gold (and the U.S. treasuries) to once again take the place of safe haven investments, as was the case in the second half of 2007.

Fear of deflation and a further slowdown in the U.S. will spread around the world. As a result, a vicious wave of competitive devaluation will cause not only price shocks (oil, food, etc.) but also spiraling monetary inflation, eventually raising long-term bond yields. This will be the beginning of a real gold bull market when gold outperforms all other major classes of assets including most hard assets.

The second outcome, in our opinion, is inevitable, but no one knows when it will come and what path it will take.

Gold price action

In the middle of July, gold touched its upper Bollinger Band (see weekly chart below). At that time a large wave of profit-taking and commodity liquidation began, causing gold to plunge by over $100/oz.

Gold held its May low of $946, which was critically important for the near term. Most technical analysts now see this support will eventually be breached and gold will touch its 65-week moving average in the low $800s.

Unfortunately, this outcome is now quite likely, meaning that the duration of the correction could be extended by an unknown length of time, from a couple of months to as long as a year.

One outcome that we feel we have to mention is the worst case scenario. The current commodity correction could extend for a few more months, easily pulling gold to below $800. If gold stabilizes in the $700s, lower $800s would become new resistance levels, causing precious metals to stall for a longer period of time.

Although this will in no way cancel the secular gold bull market, it will, however, likely lead to a cyclical bear market. The chart below shows that gold can fall to the lower $600s and still keep the long-run gold bull alive. During the 70s bull market gold lost about half of its value in a period of two years, just before embarking on an unprecedented run that took the price to $850/oz.



One more point. Gold ended 2007 at $838 per ounce. Is it so outrageous to expect 2008 to be a down year for gold, after seven straight years of gains? We think not.

While this bearish outcome for gold is not unreasonable, how would gold stocks react in this scenario?

This is an excerpt from the Resource Stock Guide Newsletter dated August 10, 2008.
 

the bear is back biatches!! printing cancel....
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more deflationary stuff

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/main.jhtml?xml=/money/2008/08/19/cnusecon119.xml

---------------------------

Sharp money supply contraction points to Wall Street crunch ahead

The US money supply has experienced the sharpest contraction in modern history, heightening the risk of a Wall Street crunch and a severe economic slowdown in coming months.

Data compiled by (the highly regarded) Lombard Street Research shows that the M3 ''broad money" aggregates fell by almost $50bn in July, the biggest one-month fall since modern records began in 1959.

"Monthly data for July show that the broad money growth has almost collapsed," said Gabriel Stein, the group's leading monetary economist.

Monetarists insist that shifts in M3 are a lead indicator of asset prices moves, typically six months or so ahead. If so, the latest collapse points to a grim autumn for Wall Street and for the American property market. As a rule of thumb, the data gives a one-year advance signal on economic growth, and a two-year signal on future inflation.

"There are always short-term blips but over the long run M3 has repeatedly shown itself good leading indicator," said Mr Stein.

On a three-month basis, the M3 growth rate has fallen from almost 19% earlier this year to just 2.1% (annualised) for the period from May to July. This is below the rate of inflation, implying a shrinkage in real terms.

The growth in bank loans has turned negative to a halt since March.

"It's obviously worrying. People either can't borrow, or don't want to borrow even if they can," said Mr Stein.

Monetarists say it is the sharpness of the drop that is most disturbing, rather than the absolute level. Moves of this speed are extremely rare.

The overall debt burden in the US economy is currently at record levels, raising concerns that a recession - if it occurs - could set off a sharp downward spiral.

Household income is now 131pc of disposable income, compared with 93pc at the top the dotcom bubble, 79pc in the property boom of the late-1980s, and 62pc at the end of the 1970s.

The M3 data measures both cash and a wide range of bank instruments. It tends to provide an early warning signal of major shifts in the economy, although the US Federal Reserve took the controversial decision to stop reporting the statistics in 2005 on the grounds that the modern financial system had rendered the data obsolete.

Monetarists insist that shifts in M3 are a lead indicator of asset prices moves, typically six months or so ahead. If so, the latest collapse points to a grim autumn for Wall Street and for the American property market. As a rule of thumb, the data gives a one-year advance signal on economic growth, and a two-year signal on future inflation.

"There are always short-term blips but over the long run M3 has repeatedly shown itself good leading indicator," said Mr Stein.

He cautioned that the three-month shifts in M3 can be highly volatile.

M3 surged after the onset of the credit crunch, but this was chiefly a distortion caused by the near total paralysis in parts of the American commercial paper market. Borrowers were forced to take out bank loans instead. The commercial paper market has yet to recover.

The University of Michigan's index of consumer sentiment has fallen to the lowest level since the 1980s recession.

The US economy is without doubt facing severe headwinds going into the autumn.

Richard Fisher, the ultra-hawkish head of the Dallas Federal Reserve, warned over the weekend that growth would be near "zero" in the second half of the year.
 

bushman
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I'm curious...why do you guys have mortgage guarantors???

Over here the bank just gives you a loan and takes the risk of default alongside the profit.

Must be a legacy from the great depression.

Its kinda communist to have a loan guarantor because it means you can hand out really crappy loans and when they fail you just go bleating to Freddy and Fanny.

--------------------------------------------
Shares in Freddie and Fannie fell sharply last month on fears that they would run out of money to fund their business, forcing the US government to take radical steps to ease the panic.
The two firms are the backbone of the US mortgage market as almost all US lenders rely on them to buy their mortgages in order to access the funds to lend to consumers.
As mortgage guarantors, they must pay out when homeowners default on their loans.
With the housing market across the US crumbling, their finances have come under severe stress.
http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7568978.stm
 

bushman
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The only time you have a loan guarantor in the UK is when your student offspring buys a hoose, and mummy and daddy have to guarantee the loan kinda thing.
 

bushman
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I also recall someone posting u can walk away from a negative equity house in America with no consequences, a legacy from a law made during the depression.

This would be the other side of the Fred & Fanny coin, since a real bank would refuse to loan munney under those circumstances.

Weird stuff, no wonder you guys are going tits up.
:grandmais
 

the bear is back biatches!! printing cancel....
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well ppi flying last month figured it'd be pretty high but not that high

core up 0.7% the chinese inflation due to rising wages etc not helping there

anyway think they level off with time though

dow futures off 100 near open

-----------------------------

we have umm to help out ze poor people eekster

in america up until shit hit the fan you were entitled to home "ownership" (i put in quotes since you don't own shit unless you pay if off) pretty much if you want one

that's why MBI and ABK were close to going tits up for a while

here how it works here

http://money.cnn.com/2008/07/08/news/companies/mortgage_insurers/index.htm?postversion=2008070815

Since emerging in the late 1950s, the state-regulated mortgage insurance industry has become an ingrained part of the housing market by allowing Americans to buy a home with less money down. Borrowers who cannot afford the traditional 20% down payment are required by their lender to take out mortgage insurance just in case a borrower defaults on their payments.

In turn, the lender can then sell that same mortgage to Freddie Mac or Fannie Mae, the government sponsored enterprises that buy pools of mortgages.

But with homeowner defaults rising, mortgage insurers have now found themselves overwhelmed by claims.
 

the bear is back biatches!! printing cancel....
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staples warned in the shit you don't need category off 8%

and home depot numbers crappy as all hell as you would expect

and without international growth and weak dollar they really scroomed

when that deflation really kicks in for corporate america gonna get nasty :grandmais

Staples said sales in North America were hurt by lower customer traffic and smaller orders, leading to a revenue drop of 1 percent as comparable store sales fell about 7 percent over 2007. International sales rose 17 percent, with a big boost from a weak dollar, and rose 6 percent when measured in local currency.
 

the bear is back biatches!! printing cancel....
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WM CS??

--------------------------

Large U.S. bank collapse seen ahead
Tuesday August 19, 1:07 am ET
By Jan Dahinten

SINGAPORE (Reuters) - The worst of the global financial crisis is yet to come and a large U.S. bank will fail in the next few months as the world's biggest economy hits further troubles, former IMF chief economist Kenneth Rogoff said on Tuesday.

"The U.S. is not out of the woods. I think the financial crisis is at the halfway point, perhaps. I would even go further to say 'the worst is to come'," he told a financial conference.

"We're not just going to see mid-sized banks go under in the next few months, we're going to see a whopper, we're going to see a big one, one of the big investment banks or big banks," said Rogoff, who is an economics professor at Harvard University and was the International Monetary Fund's chief economist from 2001 to 2004.

"We have to see more consolidation in the financial sector before this is over," he said, when asked for early signs of an end to the crisis.

"Probably Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac -- despite what U.S. Treasury Secretary Hank Paulson said -- these giant mortgage guarantee agencies are not going to exist in their present form in a few years."

Rogoff's comments come as investors dumped shares of the largest U.S. home funding companies Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac on Monday after a newspaper report said government officials may have no choice but to effectively nationalize the U.S. housing finance titans.

A government move to recapitalize the two companies by injecting funds could wipe out existing common stock holders, the weekend Barron's story said. Preferred shareholders and even holders of the two government-sponsored entities' $19 billion of subordinated debt would also suffer losses.

Rogoff said multi-billion dollar investments by sovereign wealth funds from Asia and the Middle East in western financial firms may not necessarily result in large profits because they had not taken into account the broader market conditions that the industry faces.

"There was this view early on in the crisis that sovereign wealth funds could save everybody. Investment banks did something stupid, they lost money in the sub-prime, they're great buys, sovereign wealth funds come in and make a lot of money by buying them.

"That view neglects the point that the financial system has become very bloated in size and needed to shrink," Rogoff told the conference in Singapore, whose wealth funds GIC and Temasek have invested billions in Merrill Lynch and Citigroup

In response to the sharp U.S. housing retrenchment and turmoil in credit markets, the U.S. Federal Reserve has reduced interest rates by a cumulative 3.25 percentage points to 2 percent since mid-September.

Rogoff said the U.S. Federal Reserve was wrong to cut interest rates as "dramatically" as it did.

"Cutting interest rates is going to lead to a lot of inflation in the next few years in the United States."

(Editing by Neil Chatterjee)
 

the bear is back biatches!! printing cancel....
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whatever its at when vix gets in the 30s (currently 21.91) and volume on markets gets really high

LOL

should get to 160 at least at this rate i'm guessing.....but doubt banks take out the july lows this swoon down (although i expect overall markets too) aka SKF 200+
 

the bear is back biatches!! printing cancel....
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even higher end shit you don't need scroomed

Saks reports wider 2Q loss, shares tumble
Tuesday August 19, 9:44 am ET
Saks reports larger 2Q loss as its affluent shoppers feel pinched by challenging economy

NEW YORK (AP) -- Luxury goods retailer Saks Inc. reported a wider-than-expected loss for the second quarter on Tuesday and delivered a downbeat forecast for the year as its affluent customers cut back on apparel amid a slowing economy.

Shares of the operator of the Saks Fifth Avenue chain tumbled more than 9 percent in morning trading, falling $1.05 to $10.17.
 

the bear is back biatches!! printing cancel....
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i dunno starting to have my doubts about gold that article i posted yesterday i can see happening

gold pullback to low 600s but still in a long term bull

i don't think it will but won't surprise me if it does either.....gold back above 800 now.....

like i keep saying why sweat commodities that is becoming a very hazy picture with the deflationary stuff starting to creep into the picture when its clear what equities overall are gonna do

overall the title of this tread sums up things well for the markets at large
 

the bear is back biatches!! printing cancel....
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well looks like cheapseats got the boot....that sucks

i'm sure you'll be lurking and check in from time to time

:toast: buddy
 

Dr. Is IN
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Well Gold JUMPED about $20 bucks in the last hour....Silver also jumped ....and as I look at the baskets of commodities they are also jumping from being down early to now UP...

I think we are starting to see a bounce in the oversold commodities
 

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