Question for Full-Time Gamblers?

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WVU said:
To do this full time as a living you will need a 100k bankroll and 10 identities. You cannot do this full time just picking winners. You have to be able to hustle bonuses and shop lines.

anyone who does this full time knows I am 100% right, although they probably will not admit it.

You couldn't be more wrong. That is professional unethical bonus whoring you are referring to. I couldn't live with my self being that kind of slimebucket. I do now have many times over a 100k bankroll but not at the start and do this just picking winners. Do get myself the best line on wagers I make too and have many an out. But to say you have to have multiple identities and lie cheat and steal is horseshit. Only if you don't have talent, do you need to resort to that garbage.
 

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The use of a correct bet size is every bit as important as the ability to predict winners. Make no mistake about it, the failure to use correct money management will put you out of the sports betting business even faster than a failure to predict winners.This concentrated study of expectations led to the single most important thing I ever discovered about sports betting. It is safe to say that less than one in one thousand sports bettors is aware of this extremely important fact: Even with a 57%-58% expectation on each and every bet, you will have less bankroll than you've had at one time or another in the past more than 95 percent of the time.
That's right; - less than 5 percent of the time can we expect to set new all-time highs with our bankroll.
It is essential to our well being that we recognize that fact. Like it or not, we must accept that such a condition exists, and that it is wholly normal. It is dictated by the mathematics of the situation. By recognizing and accepting that this condition exists, we can better deal with that nagging feeling of having to 'do something' to catch up. Even if we're showing a profit over the last couple of months, if our bankroll is less than it was last week, we tend to get that knot in the pit of our stomach that reminds us we've been losing.
That knot in our stomach is not conducive to clear thinking. It is the first step to a feeling of desperation.
It would be wonderful if our bankrolls increased predictably and smoothly, week-by-week, but that is simply not the way it works. We are not dealing with an escalator moving smoothly and predictably upwards; we are dealing with a pogo stick bouncing crazily up a long, low, uneven grade. Less than one 'bounce' in twenty of our pogo stick will result in a new all time 'altitude' record.
The important thing is to recognize that the condition exists, and that it is simply not avoidable, and to accept it as being part of the overall picture. If you are aware that this circumstance is supposed to happen you will be better prepared to cope with it on an emotional level.
Keep in mind that any particular series of wins and losses is a 'streak.' It is just as much a streak to have a long series not dominated by either wins or losses as to have a long series dominated by wins or a long series dominated by losses. To illustrate what can be expected from having a winning expectation of, say, 57½% per bet, I have often used the analogy of 1,000 marbles in a sack; - 575 white marbles (winners) and 425 black marbles (losers). Your job is to draw a marble from the sack without peeking, note whether it's a white marble (a winner) or a black marble (a loser), replace it in the sack, shake the sack, and repeat the process.
Given enough draws from the sack, it is obvious you are guaranteed to pick more winners than losers. After all, every time you reach into the sack you have a 57½% expectation of "winning" and only a 42½% expectation of "losing." Trouble is, those 425 black marbles can be a real pain in the patootsie. It is amazing how many losers you can draw over any sequential 10, or 20, or even 50 chances. In spite of having a clear advantage, you are absolutely guaranteed to have losing streaks.
The most disastrous streak I ever heard of happened to professional handicapper, Tony Diamond. Tony has been a pro for many years in Las Vegas, and his handicapping ability is generally well respected. The streak happened in 1997. Tony was sailing along against the NBA at a winning clip of 59+% when he hit The Mother Of All Losing Streaks, - an unbelievable string of 27 straight losses.
It made Tony more famous than ever. A math professor from the University of Nevada at Las Vegas figured Tony's odds of going 0-27 at something akin to 4.5 million to one. Stephen Nover, a reporter for The Las Vegas Sun wrote an article about the streak. Tony was interviewed on radio & television about it.
It was a brutal lesson in correct money management.

Your long term goal is to be able to keep picking from the sack enough times so that the streaks will even out. With 575 winners and 425 losers in the sack, you must eventually pull more winners than losers. That's the law of probabilities. What happens over a dozen or two pulls won't and can't dramatically change the long term results, - but you can certainly experience a bumpy ride over the short term. My own worst streak was back in 1985. I had a 57½% winning expectation against the NFL, and in Week 15 I went 0-13. That's right; - zero wins and thirteen losses. It was the worst beating of my life. (That same week, a television show I'd been writing for four years was also cancelled...Bummer.)
It was that beating that drove me to a closer examination of probabilities. What precisely are the chances of going 0-13 if you have a 57½% winning expectation per bet?
They're not big. Wiith the help of Professor Allbritton, I worked out the chances to be about the same as being dealt a cold straight flush in five card stud poker; - over 60,000-to-one. Trouble is, if you play five card stud long enough, sooner or later you're going to be dealt a cold straight flush. It's the old rule about an infinite number of monkeys with an infinite number of typewriters. If you bet on sports long enough, sooner or later you're going to go 0-13.
The critical point is to recognize the parameters of the eventualities. Having less bankroll than you had at one time or another in the recent past is simply the way it is more than 95% of the time. It is the natural condition. It is the nature of the beast. Life can be much easier when you recognize and appreciate that fact.
In 1998 against the NBA, our picks in PROFESSIONAL GAMBLER Newsletter made a season-long profit of about 29 units. That's less than we normally make, but it's still a good profit. (A normal year nets 40-some units; we made over 90 units in 1997.) Trouble is, somewhere around the first of March in 1998, we'd already zoomed to a high of 53 units! From March through the playoffs we lost about 24 units. Even though we produced a net profit for the entire NBA season of about 29 units, some of our subscribers went broke by getting too optimistic with their bet sizes.
The real key to a relaxed professionalism is in having done enough research and having had enough experience to be confident that the 'sack of marbles' does, indeed, contain more winners than losers. Once you are absolutely positive of that, your very next goal is make certain nobody can stop you from drawing from the sack. You want to draw from that sack as often as possible, of course. With a solid edge, you must inevitably draw more winners than losers. After that 0-13 disaster, for example, I never doubted I had a 57+% expectation because I had years of experience to prove it.
Strangely enough, the most likely person to stop you from drawing from the sack is you. If the sizes of your bets are too high in proportion to your bankroll, you will be forced to stop drawing by a short term losing streak. Sooner or later, if your bets are too high in relation to your bankroll, you will go broke, - even though you have a clear long term advantage.
I am wholly convinced that sports bettors go broke because of bad money management, not because of bad handicapping. The next time some tout in a bad suit advises you to use a progressive betting scheme, such as "one-star, two-star, three-star," or the so-called "Kelly criterion," ask to see his Master's Degree in mathematics - preferably in probabilities. As I point out in my book, the Kelly criterion should be called the "Kevorkian criterion" or the "Kamikaze Criterion." It's suicide. The fact is, if you have any kind of realistic advantage over the bookmaker, the safest and best "system" is to keep your bets as level as possible. It's a grind'em down situation, just as casinos grind down craps players and roulette players. Armed with a genuine understanding of what can be expected, you won't find yourself waking up at 3:00 in the morning with sweaty palms and an irregular heartbeat.
 

WVU

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royalfan said:
You couldn't be more wrong. That is professional unethical bonus whoring you are referring to. I couldn't live with my self being that kind of slimebucket. I do now have many times over a 100k bankroll but not at the start and do this just picking winners. Do get myself the best line on wagers I make too and have many an out. But to say you have to have multiple identities and lie cheat and steal is horseshit. Only if you don't have talent, do you need to resort to that garbage.


again, you are so full of shit. I may be a bonus whore, but I am honest. Do you think anyone in this forum actually believes that you have profited 3 units a day for 5 years? That is exactly what you have tried to tell me. I suppose your picks hit at an 80% clip huh. yeah you have lots of talent. You can overcome juice and make a killing because you are just that good and linesmakers are just that bad. Keep on with your comical bullshit.
:puppy:
 

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luckythirteen said:
The use of a correct bet size is every bit as important as the ability to predict winners. Make no mistake about it, the failure to use correct money management will put you out of the sports betting business even faster than a failure to predict winners.This concentrated study of expectations led to the single most important thing I ever discovered about sports betting. It is safe to say that less than one in one thousand sports bettors is aware of this extremely important fact: Even with a 57%-58% expectation on each and every bet, you will have less bankroll than you've had at one time or another in the past more than 95 percent of the time.
That's right; - less than 5 percent of the time can we expect to set new all-time highs with our bankroll.
It is essential to our well being that we recognize that fact. Like it or not, we must accept that such a condition exists, and that it is wholly normal. It is dictated by the mathematics of the situation. By recognizing and accepting that this condition exists, we can better deal with that nagging feeling of having to 'do something' to catch up. Even if we're showing a profit over the last couple of months, if our bankroll is less than it was last week, we tend to get that knot in the pit of our stomach that reminds us we've been losing.
That knot in our stomach is not conducive to clear thinking. It is the first step to a feeling of desperation.
It would be wonderful if our bankrolls increased predictably and smoothly, week-by-week, but that is simply not the way it works. We are not dealing with an escalator moving smoothly and predictably upwards; we are dealing with a pogo stick bouncing crazily up a long, low, uneven grade. Less than one 'bounce' in twenty of our pogo stick will result in a new all time 'altitude' record.
The important thing is to recognize that the condition exists, and that it is simply not avoidable, and to accept it as being part of the overall picture. If you are aware that this circumstance is supposed to happen you will be better prepared to cope with it on an emotional level.
Keep in mind that any particular series of wins and losses is a 'streak.' It is just as much a streak to have a long series not dominated by either wins or losses as to have a long series dominated by wins or a long series dominated by losses. To illustrate what can be expected from having a winning expectation of, say, 57½% per bet, I have often used the analogy of 1,000 marbles in a sack; - 575 white marbles (winners) and 425 black marbles (losers). Your job is to draw a marble from the sack without peeking, note whether it's a white marble (a winner) or a black marble (a loser), replace it in the sack, shake the sack, and repeat the process.
Given enough draws from the sack, it is obvious you are guaranteed to pick more winners than losers. After all, every time you reach into the sack you have a 57½% expectation of "winning" and only a 42½% expectation of "losing." Trouble is, those 425 black marbles can be a real pain in the patootsie. It is amazing how many losers you can draw over any sequential 10, or 20, or even 50 chances. In spite of having a clear advantage, you are absolutely guaranteed to have losing streaks.
The most disastrous streak I ever heard of happened to professional handicapper, Tony Diamond. Tony has been a pro for many years in Las Vegas, and his handicapping ability is generally well respected. The streak happened in 1997. Tony was sailing along against the NBA at a winning clip of 59+% when he hit The Mother Of All Losing Streaks, - an unbelievable string of 27 straight losses.
It made Tony more famous than ever. A math professor from the University of Nevada at Las Vegas figured Tony's odds of going 0-27 at something akin to 4.5 million to one. Stephen Nover, a reporter for The Las Vegas Sun wrote an article about the streak. Tony was interviewed on radio & television about it.
It was a brutal lesson in correct money management.

Your long term goal is to be able to keep picking from the sack enough times so that the streaks will even out. With 575 winners and 425 losers in the sack, you must eventually pull more winners than losers. That's the law of probabilities. What happens over a dozen or two pulls won't and can't dramatically change the long term results, - but you can certainly experience a bumpy ride over the short term. My own worst streak was back in 1985. I had a 57½% winning expectation against the NFL, and in Week 15 I went 0-13. That's right; - zero wins and thirteen losses. It was the worst beating of my life. (That same week, a television show I'd been writing for four years was also cancelled...Bummer.)
It was that beating that drove me to a closer examination of probabilities. What precisely are the chances of going 0-13 if you have a 57½% winning expectation per bet?
They're not big. Wiith the help of Professor Allbritton, I worked out the chances to be about the same as being dealt a cold straight flush in five card stud poker; - over 60,000-to-one. Trouble is, if you play five card stud long enough, sooner or later you're going to be dealt a cold straight flush. It's the old rule about an infinite number of monkeys with an infinite number of typewriters. If you bet on sports long enough, sooner or later you're going to go 0-13.
The critical point is to recognize the parameters of the eventualities. Having less bankroll than you had at one time or another in the recent past is simply the way it is more than 95% of the time. It is the natural condition. It is the nature of the beast. Life can be much easier when you recognize and appreciate that fact.
In 1998 against the NBA, our picks in PROFESSIONAL GAMBLER Newsletter made a season-long profit of about 29 units. That's less than we normally make, but it's still a good profit. (A normal year nets 40-some units; we made over 90 units in 1997.) Trouble is, somewhere around the first of March in 1998, we'd already zoomed to a high of 53 units! From March through the playoffs we lost about 24 units. Even though we produced a net profit for the entire NBA season of about 29 units, some of our subscribers went broke by getting too optimistic with their bet sizes.
The real key to a relaxed professionalism is in having done enough research and having had enough experience to be confident that the 'sack of marbles' does, indeed, contain more winners than losers. Once you are absolutely positive of that, your very next goal is make certain nobody can stop you from drawing from the sack. You want to draw from that sack as often as possible, of course. With a solid edge, you must inevitably draw more winners than losers. After that 0-13 disaster, for example, I never doubted I had a 57+% expectation because I had years of experience to prove it.
Strangely enough, the most likely person to stop you from drawing from the sack is you. If the sizes of your bets are too high in proportion to your bankroll, you will be forced to stop drawing by a short term losing streak. Sooner or later, if your bets are too high in relation to your bankroll, you will go broke, - even though you have a clear long term advantage.
I am wholly convinced that sports bettors go broke because of bad money management, not because of bad handicapping. The next time some tout in a bad suit advises you to use a progressive betting scheme, such as "one-star, two-star, three-star," or the so-called "Kelly criterion," ask to see his Master's Degree in mathematics - preferably in probabilities. As I point out in my book, the Kelly criterion should be called the "Kevorkian criterion" or the "Kamikaze Criterion." It's suicide. The fact is, if you have any kind of realistic advantage over the bookmaker, the safest and best "system" is to keep your bets as level as possible. It's a grind'em down situation, just as casinos grind down craps players and roulette players. Armed with a genuine understanding of what can be expected, you won't find yourself waking up at 3:00 in the morning with sweaty palms and an irregular heartbeat.


.....WITHOUT A DOUBT, THE SINGLE MOST INFORMATIVE POST I have read on this site in a long ,long time !!!!!! Every SERIOUS gambler would do well to print this out and reread it occasionally , just to keep the important perspective neccessary for success !!!! This kind of post makes wading through all the bullshit well worth the time .............is a pleasure to see some well thought out ideas written by someone who obviously has been there and done that and has taken the time to pass this along.. .....ty sir !!
 

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WVU said:
again, you are so full of shit. I may be a bonus whore, but I am honest. Do you think anyone in this forum actually believes that you have profited 3 units a day for 5 years? That is exactly what you have tried to tell me. I suppose your picks hit at an 80% clip huh. yeah you have lots of talent. You can overcome juice and make a killing because you are just that good and linesmakers are just that bad. Keep on with your comical bullshit.
:puppy:

Dont keep track of percentages. All I keep track of is how much money I make by sport. What I say is the truth. I certainly have no reason to lie, and don't personally care for those kind. Lying to me is unetchical, much like bonus whoring and scamming.
 

WVU

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Lol. how many units a day do you bet on average Royalfan?
 

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Actually don't really have a big problem with those who bonus whore. I find it a touch unetchical but as long as you are taking the offer the book is giving on the up and up, so be it. I take bonus monies often when trying a new book. Who wouldn't, be foolish not to. But I do so only with the intention of hoping the book will be one I will want to keep and it almost always works that way. I don't try and piledrive through it and scalp out at another book and all that nonsense. Just use the bonus how the book intends for them to be used.

Where I have a BIG problem, is setting up multiple identiies and cheating and stealing from books. That is way over the top in my view.
 

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WVU said:
Lol. how many units a day do you bet on average Royalfan?

Depends on what is going on that day. The bigger events with more props etc on offer result in tons of plays. Not uncommon for me to have 15-40 different wagers going on a particular event such as Monday night football or an NBA playoff game for anywhere from 1-15 units per. Or a nascar race, I will often find good value in about 10-15 different matchups on a particular race and many are played for ten units or more. For purposes of what I have stated, a unit on here is 100 bucks for me, but do not really use units in reality.
 

WVU

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and from an average of about 27.5 or so units you are profiting 3 units everyday?


I am just trying to fathom how you can claim to have profited 3500 units over 5 years.

actually there are probably only about 150 decent betting days in a year so you have to be profiting 5 units a day. There is no friggen way dude.
 

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WVU said:
and from an average of about 27.5 or so units you are profiting 3 units everyday?


I am just trying to fathom how you can claim to have profited 3500 units over 5 years.

not sure where you get the 27.5. On a big event, I will have 120 or 150 units risked. Over the last few years have averaged much more than 3 units per day. Little over 6 units a day averages would be more accurate. There are many days where I don't wager at all if no large event is going. So of the days I actually wager, the average ofcourse would be much higher.
 

WVU

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ok so how much is each unit in dollar amounts?
 

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On any given event it is a lot like a mutual fund for me. You wager that many positive expecation events on an event, I will normally come out ahead.
 

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WVU said:
ok so how much is each unit in dollar amounts?

as I said before, I don't use units in reality but for purposes of the rx when I give plays or talk about my record a unit for me is always 100 in reality for me.
 

WVU

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royalfan said:
On any given event it is a lot like a mutual fund for me. You wager that many positive expecation events on an event, I will normally come out ahead.

you are not just coming out ahead. You are beating the juice and coming out 3500 (yes thirty five hundred) units ahead
 

WVU

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how about you just start tracking your plays in the tracker forum and prove to us that you are consistently making 6 units a day just picking winners.
 

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WVU said:
you are not just coming out ahead. You are beating the juice and coming out 3500 (yes thirty five hundred) units ahead

my high year was last year at 2900 units profit. Have made more every year since I started 5 years ago until this year. Have had a lot more bad luck on nascar wrecks than in the past. Only up 105 units for this calendar year. Virtually no way, I will set a new high unfortunately this year.
 

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WVU said:
how about you just start tracking your plays in the tracker forum and prove to us that you are consistently making 6 units a day just picking winners.

The main reason is because of the uniquness of the plays I make, I wouldn't want them show publicly as I would be worried about getting banned by more books than i already have or them not continuing to offer the lines. The other reason is that the bulk of my plays are made in the last hour before gametime and I dont have time to type in a list of 20 or 30 plays on a tracker forum. Finally, I don't believe the tracker forum allows many of the type of plays I make. Would gladly give you a sample of one of my cards on a big event off the forum sometime though if you sent me an email.
 

WVU

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yeah ok big guy. whatever. You are so full of this guy's tongue

:realtongu
 

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WVU said:
yeah ok big guy. whatever. You are so full of this guy's tongue

:realtongu

Did edit that last post, so you may have missed the last sentence that I added on.
 

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