If the Big 12 fails to get a team into the playoffs, this definately gets settled by next summer. If they get a team into the Playoffs (and the smart money says that they will), then they will do what the Big 12-2 does best. Hem and haw and stall making a decision until they once again get left out of the playoffs. As far as all the rumors about the ACC, that is all they are. Rumors. Florida State and Clemson are not going anywhere, so the Big 12-2 can forget about that dream. The Pac 12 has contingency plans for expansion to 14 or 16 teams, if necessary. It is rather easy for the other three conferences to do so. Again, the Big 12 has to pet pro active about the situation. Take UCF and Cincinnati and make life simple.
I agree that the Big 12 missed the boat with Louisville. But now that that's over I'm not sure it is a very good idea to add teams at this point. None of these schools you mentioned are great replacements. BYU might be if they got rid of their silly cult religion and no Sunday play. The others are just ho hum additions that are nowhere near what Nebraska and Texas A&M were to the conference. To an outsider this may not matter. But for a Big 12 fan I want to see improvement in conference strength, not just a bunch of add-ons to appease the non-fans of the conference just so they'll have a number that makes them conference playoff game eligible. That's not good enough for me. At this point I think the only way out is for OU and Texas to move on to greener pastures. And if everybody thinks the decision to leave a conference and which conference they go to is based only on athletics, you would be wrong. OU President David Boren has stated in the past that his main focus is academics, which is why he turned down the SEC before and could very well do it again. The Pac-12 stated the first time around in conference realignment that they would not take OU without Texas. And they turned down OSU coming with OU. if nothing has changed in the last 4 years that leaves the Big 12 with 3 options. First I don't think OU will go anywhere without UT. That's just a feeling I have right now. It's not based on anything but both schools pretty much wanting the same things. And most of it has to do with going to a conference with higher academic standards. And not as much about how big of a TV contract they will get. I know some here will refuse to believe that, but Boren has been at OU since before the Big 12 even formed. His main focus has always been academics. At one time OU was the only one of the original Big 8 schools that didn't have AAU status. So Boren and the university have had a bit of a chip on their shoulder ever since to get their academic standards up to what the BIG is. Right now if given a choice, I think Boren's focus would be more towards the BIG or possibly an ACC merger than it would the SEC. Only time will tell how this plays out, but like I said Texas has the same aspirations with their academics. It's why I don't think they would ever join the SEC. Plus A$M would have a screaming shit fit if the Horns joined that conference...
A&M blocks Texas from joining the SEC, and OU would never win a SEC Championship with their current recruiting and coaching difficulties. OU wants no part of the SEC, with or without Texas. The truth of the matter is that both OU and Texas (especially Texas) are making life difficult for the entire Big 12 because neither school is a major threat to crash the playoffs anytime soon. Instead you get nothing schools like Baylor and TCU sitting on top of the Big 12 World. The Big 12 is, at best, the #4 Conference, well behind the big 3 (Big 10, Pac 12, and SEC). One of the reasons is the absence of a CC game. If, for example, TCU, Baylor and Oklahoma all end up with one conference loss, and defeat each other, then you have a three way tie, and must break the tie with some Mickey Mouse tie breaking rule. That leaves a bad taste in the mouth of committee members, who eventually decide who goes to the playoffs and who does not. It is how things are perceived that counts. Even the biggest Big 12 homer in here cannot argue the fact that the Big 12 is well behind the Big 3 power conferences in perception amongst the committee voters. If they expand to 12 teams, no matter who the other two are, they gain immediate respect amongst the voters. I know some people in here think they know how the committee members operate, but the truth of the matter is that they do not. They were proven wrong last seasaon and nothing has changed for this season. It is still a game of perception amongst the top teams. Many voters think that the Big 12 schools are nothing more than a bunch of snobs sucking up to Texas, and no school currently in the Big 12 has done anything to disprove that theory.
Sorry, but just adding teams to appease the committee or football fans outside of the conference isn't good enough. Plus I don't think Cincy, Houston or Memphis would sway the committee's thinking because one conference would still always be left out of the playoff no matter what. And these teams DO NOT strengthen the Big 12's standing or SOS. By joining the SEC OU's recruiting would improve just like it has for Texas A&M and Arkansas. But I have my doubts that OU or Texas will ever join the SEC anyway, for the reasons I've already stated.
To know the future is to know the past. Here's a little article with some conference realignment chatter circa 2010 (full article at link).
Big Ten football fans, see if the following slate of conference games would interest you:
Oklahoma vs. Wisconsin; Nebraska vs. Texas A&M; Iowa vs. Iowa State; Minnesota vs. Kansas.
Unfortunately, it’s not happening. But there was a time when grouping those eight schools into one division of a 16-team Big Ten was discussed at high administrative levels by members of both leagues.
Five summers ago, Texas rattled the Big 12 to its core by threatening to bolt to what then was the Pac-10, with five other league members trailing along.
Some Big 12 schools involved wanted no part of such a move or the travel associated with it and began exploring other options. I first heard of this at the time and again two years ago, but it wasn’t until last week’s Big 12 media days that I found a second source with direct knowledge to confirm it.
All this is more proof that the conference realignment wheel never stops spinning.
Sometimes, it just goes faster, as late last month when Oklahoma President David Boren called the Big 12 “psychologically disadvantaged’’ for having the smallest number of members (10) among Power Five conferences.
Does Boren really want 12 members, even though no qualified candidates come to mind? Was he signaling to another league that Oklahoma might listen to an invitation?
Several veteran Big 12 media members said their money is on the league not lasting another decade.
If the predictions come true that the clock is ticking on the Big 12 sticking together, remember what we previously reported from two sources at Nebraska — the Big Ten has done its “homework’’ to evaluate Oklahoma and Kansas as potential members.
Big Ten football fans, see if the following slate of conference games would interest you:
Oklahoma vs. Wisconsin; Nebraska vs. Texas A&M; Iowa vs. Iowa State; Minnesota vs. Kansas.
Unfortunately, it’s not happening. But there was a time when grouping those eight schools into one division of a 16-team Big Ten was discussed at high administrative levels by members of both leagues.
Five summers ago, Texas rattled the Big 12 to its core by threatening to bolt to what then was the Pac-10, with five other league members trailing along.
Some Big 12 schools involved wanted no part of such a move or the travel associated with it and began exploring other options. I first heard of this at the time and again two years ago, but it wasn’t until last week’s Big 12 media days that I found a second source with direct knowledge to confirm it.
All this is more proof that the conference realignment wheel never stops spinning.
Sometimes, it just goes faster, as late last month when Oklahoma President David Boren called the Big 12 “psychologically disadvantaged’’ for having the smallest number of members (10) among Power Five conferences.
Does Boren really want 12 members, even though no qualified candidates come to mind? Was he signaling to another league that Oklahoma might listen to an invitation?
Several veteran Big 12 media members said their money is on the league not lasting another decade.
If the predictions come true that the clock is ticking on the Big 12 sticking together, remember what we previously reported from two sources at Nebraska — the Big Ten has done its “homework’’ to evaluate Oklahoma and Kansas as potential members.
Because of academics in the ACC (much higher) that won't happen. i could see Texas going to the ACC or PAC12 though. I hear a bunch of that type of talk recently. They like the academics of both those conferences however, with the recent change in President at UT, PAC12 might not be the favorite anymore. Powers was a CAL guy and at the time was in favor of moving to the PAC12. The new president Fenves is a CAL guy as well however I don't know as much about him.
Big 12 should look at any combination of Cincy, Memphis, BYU, and La Tech. As a wildcard, I'd try to pick off Pitt from the ACC. I've never seen the fit of Pitt in the ACC, and I bet WVa would like to see if just to be able to have a travel partner and renew the rivalry. Despite everyone wanting BYU, I personally would stay away from them. I think adding Cincy, Memphis, La Tech and PITT, would be nice. And before you say what does that gains, it gets you into Ohio, LA, and Penn. Nice recruiting areas with televisions. And I've often said, what does Ames, IA (Iowa St) and Manhatten, KS (Kan St) give you. I'd take Cincy or Pitt over each of those fly over locations.
Which is the problem with the Big12, unless they do something soon or special, they'll be forever known as a "Flyover" conference and always having to protect from the other teams poaching their top brand name teams (OU/Tex) because without those two, it's the AAC or the Mountain West (by perception). And lets not forget, teams know "HOW" to leave the conference, just as Nebr, Mizzou, Colo, and Tex A&M!! That's 4 teams, 4 states, and solid fan bases that had history, passionate fan bases and success in the conference.
Which is the problem with the Big12, unless they do something soon or special, they'll be forever known as a "Flyover" conference and always having to protect from the other teams poaching their top brand name teams (OU/Tex) because without those two, it's the AAC or the Mountain West (by perception). And lets not forget, teams know "HOW" to leave the conference, just as Nebr, Mizzou, Colo, and Tex A&M!! That's 4 teams, 4 states, and solid fan bases that had history, passionate fan bases and success in the conference.
Win, with the exception Cincy or Pitt, none of those teams you mentioned are very good options. We already know the demands BYU wants, so they are more than likely out of the picture. None of these other teams have any football tradition. Where does La Tech and Memphis make the conference stronger? Hell, if you add those teams why don't we just go ahead and add Rice and SMU. What is it about any of these teams that makes your Big 12 SOS any stronger to qualify for the Final Four? Our resident idiot Junk wants us to add Memphis because it's such a fine town. Which gives you an idea of the ignorance that comes from non Big 12 fans on this issue since it's no skin off their backs. Pitt would be okay if they weren't in the ACC. Right now the GOR is a big issue with Power 5 teams switching conferences. When a conference loses football tradition like Nebraska and A&M you must replace it with football tradition or your just treading water. And finding new recruiting bases isn't enough to make up for it. I'm sure the Big 12 brass is thinking of adding 2 of these teams. But in my opinion they should just let the conference play itself out, which I think will probably happen before the next contract if it doesn't produce any national champions.
GS, the thought on Memphis and LaTech gives you televisions. Memphis is not only Memphis but it gives you a small slice of the Little Rock, AR tv market. Same for LaTech in the Ruston/Shreveport market. Playing games there gives your teams southeast viewers and recruits. Also both are much larger markets than Ames, IA and Manhatten, KS. Both have solid basketball teams and decent football teams. With respect to LaTech, they are much closer to OU, TCU, Bay, Tex than ISU and it's right off a major interstate. It's a thought because B12 missed the boat with not taking L'Ville. I'm not saying they have to take them, my first 2 would be Cincy and trying to poach Pitt as I don't think Pitt is a fit in the ACC, and I think would seriously look at the Big12.
Win, I think everybody is missing one big point in all of this. The fans. Who wants to drive 40 miles and pay a couple hundred dollars for tickets to go to Norman and watch OU play Memphis or La Tech? I know I don't. We've already got enough shitty games as it is. OU's home schedule this season is Akron, Tulsa, WV, TT, Iowa St, TCU. Fans want to see marquee games. Not these crappy games with a bunch of mid majors. The only way for OU to get decent teams in Norman is to join another conference. And I think it will eventually happen.
Again, my top 2 would be Cincy and Pitt. The Pitt selection is interesting because it does seem from the outside that they just dont fit there. Again, it's western PA, right about WVa.
Also, for those that say take a SMU or a Houston, Big12 does not get anything since those markets already have alums from OU/OSU but most importantly Texas, Baylor and Tech which have Huge alumni bases in the greater Houston and Dallas areas. Also, when you see SMU host Tech or A&M, over 70% of the fans are from Tech/A&M. And I discount basketball with SMU because HC Brown is over 70 and wont be in Dallas that much longer.
The A&M/Arkansas game or the Tech/Bay game at Jerry World will draw in 1 game what it takes SMU 3 to 4 games to draw.
Also, for those that say take a SMU or a Houston, Big12 does not get anything since those markets already have alums from OU/OSU but most importantly Texas, Baylor and Tech which have Huge alumni bases in the greater Houston and Dallas areas. Also, when you see SMU host Tech or A&M, over 70% of the fans are from Tech/A&M. And I discount basketball with SMU because HC Brown is over 70 and wont be in Dallas that much longer.
The A&M/Arkansas game or the Tech/Bay game at Jerry World will draw in 1 game what it takes SMU 3 to 4 games to draw.
Then Boren needs to get off the pot and move his team West to the PAC 12 South. Having a decent non-conference schedule but giving him home games yearly with USC/UCLA, Zona/ASU, Cal/Stan, with Oregon or UW coming to town every couple of years and having trips out west to play them. It also gives your fans destination road games. I know, we've wrote about this until it's tired, but honestly that's the sexy play for your school (you win because of the academic PAC12 schools and committment to research), with athletics (because of the fertile recuiting) and because of the road trips and potentially better home scheduling for your fans.
With the ATT acquisition of DirecTV being cleared now, it'll be interesting to see how the PAC12 television expansion moves along. ATT has invested big time in the PAC12 network and the thought was that now that the deal is out of the way they'll push DirecTV to move forward fast with the PAC12 network. This would be an additional bump in revenue for the schools.
I am wondering if they can get something done by the PAC12 media days???
I am wondering if they can get something done by the PAC12 media days???
RLR, good article. I knew a little about this in the past, but I didn't know the whole story with the Big 10. I think if it was up to Boren himself OU would go to the Big 10. Boren thinks OU is the Harvard of the South. The trouble is the Big 10 doesn't think so, and academics would be a problem. Really, no new conference is going to be perfect for OU. If they go the the SEC they are dealing with the worst cheating in college football. Go to the Big 10 and you're dealing with the North's cold weather and the least appealing recruiting connections, go West and you're dealing with games starting at 9pm. If I were Boren this would be my order of preference.
1.The Pac-12. Great weather and bigger name schools than what they're playing now. Great recruiting grounds
2.SEC...It's a top heavy conference and everybody gets beat up, and a tough schdeule. But i would love seeing several big names in college football coming to Norman each year. Let's face it, this Norman home schedule is a bitter pill to swallow. Would anybody here be satisfied with OU's home schedule? I think we know the answer to that.
3.Big 10...Several big schools, big names, and a great national network. The bottom line is all 3 of these conferences offer OU much more than what they are getting currently. Any of them would be an upgrade.
I also liked the part on Texas. I'm not as invested, so I didnt know they had an AD problem. This plays into the current mindset because I do think Boren spoke up for reasons other than saving the B12. Hell, a month ago, I would have said the B12 was ok slow playing conference expansion to see the next big raid and fallout perhaps land them some ACC leftovers, but now I think OU is more likely out than in. For the B12 to be a P5, it needs both OU/TX in. We both know TX has only been in it for themselves and I think OU has reached that point too. If a good portion of the fanbase is like you, well then that has to weigh on the admin. You know my stance. Id love for OU to be division member with NU. I cant comment on academics. I really dont know enough there, but I do know that AAU seems to be of some importance. But it is important to note that Nebraska is the only non-AAU member in the B10 and if they had got ND like they always wanted, that would be two. So, there is leeway there, imo. We'll never know if/how it effects recruiting until/if a change happens. I've beaten that horse that it would not be as great as some think. But I'll offer up a new point on that. Could an Oklahoma inclusion further open Texas recruiting to the B12? And thus keep OU in the loop? Norman isnt going anywhere, so thats still 60% of its games in the same place. Northern teams would now be going south every other year. And dont forget trips to Iowa/ Neb...perhaps KU. Those are all similar trips that family make now to see their kids play. Granted it's not waco/lubbock/austin/dallas. A couple of those would become a wisconsin/minnesota/northwestern and then a mich/osu/psu from time to time. If OU leaves and Baylor/TCU are left out of P5 conferences, which seems likely, how attractive are those teams going to be? I cant see Tex getting the old swc band back together, so as a state would likely be as fractured as ever.
The article really went national. Upon doing some further sesrching ran across another article from about 3 weeks earlier, so it isnt influenced by the recent nebraska newspaper arcticle. The piece angles that, basically what you said, Boren wants in the big ten. Best to just post it I suppose.
Oklahoma’s Big Ten Agenda
Mike Davis July 6, 2015 NCAAF Leave a comment 2,526 Views
University of Oklahoma President David Boren has been at the center of recent conference realignment speculation. Boren has been a traditional advocate of Big 12 expansions and made his wishes known in a series of public statements in late June.
Oklahoma (OU) has been named as a potential candidate for the Pac-10/12, Big Ten, and SEC. With so many options on the table for OU, it can be difficult to understand what their true intentions are. The best way to do that is to look at this from an academic point of view.
Oklahoma was the only flagship school in the original Big 12 that was not a member of the academically prestigious Association of American Universities (AAU). They also lagged behind their fellow Big 12 flagships in various academic rankings. For Oklahoma they have always taken this shortcoming as a reason to strive for academic improvement.
For casual college football fans the notion that an athletic association can somehow improve the academics of a school is hard to comprehend. The common saying that I hear is “Kentucky doesn’t become a better school just because they are in a conference with Vanderbilt.” People are correct when they say that. However what Kentucky gains by playing Vanderbilt is being able to meet with the Vanderbilt Chancellor on a regular basis. Being perceived as an equal member in an association that consists of academic powerhouses well above their weight class. And most importantly, they gain the ability to claim membership to a conference that consists of the best academic schools in their region.
For most college football fans the concept that a school will choose their athletic conference for academic purposes is not accepted because they can’t understand that sort of reasoning. My response is that you don’t have to understand it; you simply have to acknowledge its existence. Academic administrators like Boren will always place a tremendous amount of value on academic association. Since they are the decision makers in the conference realignment world, what they value matters.
Oklahoma is looking to improve their academic association in conference realignment, with their main goal being a Big Ten invite. The most telling piece of evidence on this comes from David Boren himself who stated the following in September 2011. He implied that OU would be seeking academic relationships in realignment as well as athletic ones.
“Partners that are both outstanding athletically and academically as well because a conference that’s strong is not only stable but it’s one in which there are multiple relationships, along with sports, between the university members,” he told ESPN.
The part where Boren states that he wants to join an outstanding athletic is a very important statement about the direction OU wants to be heading in. However the bolded words are far more important as it suggests OU wants Big Ten membership.
The Big Ten is the only FBS conference that has a major academic consortium to go along with its athletic affiliation. It is called the Committee on Institutional Cooperation (CIC) and acts as the academic branch of the Big Ten. To mention “multiple relationships” is the same as mentioning the Big Ten itself because no other conference truly has multiple relationships like the Big Ten has established.
This is not the only way OU has expressed their desire for Big Ten membership. The following is a list of the 20 schools that OU has selected as their academic peers:
Indiana
Michigan State
Ohio State
Penn State
Purdue
Illinois
Iowa
Michigan
Minnesota
Wisconsin
Iowa State
Kansas State
Oklahoma State
Texas A&M
Texas Tech
Colorado
Kansas
Missouri
Nebraska
Texas
As you can see the schools OU lists as their peers follows an athletic pattern. Every school that OU considers a peer is a public school, but more importantly a pre-conference realignment member of either the Big Ten or the Big 12. Every single institution from these two conferences except Baylor and Northwestern (both are private schools) are accounted for.
It is extremely rare for a school to name their academic peers so closely along athletic lines. So for OU to do so is a very bold statement of which collection of schools they see themselves aligning with.
Make no mistake about it, OU wants the Big Ten more than any other conference. They will conduct themselves in future periods of conference instability accordingly.
