does any one know for sure if the following books go into the pools I have my doubts about them booking all the action betehorse pinnacle tcbets myhorse racing these books are invited to reply I have seen movement on horses I have bet on for no apparent reason now this are small pools also they are longshots
aaweid,
BeteHorse: If you are profiled a winner or a player that can win, all of your bets go into the pools.
Pinnacle: I think the practice risk management (there is a post here somewhere, but I can't find it, where they explain what it is).
TCbets: If you win, they will decide to send all of your bets in (usually when they make you call in).
MyHorseRacing: All bets go into the pools 100% of the time.
All of them, except for Pinnacle, will tell you that nothing goes in. It is very easy to prove that it does if you are willing to sacrafice a few dollars.
BeteHorse: If you are profiled a winner or a player that can win, all of your bets go into the pools.
Pinnacle: I think the practice risk management (there is a post here somewhere, but I can't find it, where they explain what it is).
TCbets: If you win, they will decide to send all of your bets in (usually when they make you call in).
MyHorseRacing: All bets go into the pools 100% of the time.
All of them, except for Pinnacle, will tell you that nothing goes in. It is very easy to prove that it does if you are willing to sacrafice a few dollars.
Isn't it time that the US grew up and offered the bettor some choice when it comes to horse racing. I'm surprised that you US horse horse race bettors accept it! Pari-mutuel betting is such an antiquated system:
1 - Unless all the money bet on the race goes into the pool - it represents a false market.
2 - In this day and age should you have to wait for a return to determine how much money you receive. Would anyone accept betting on an NFL game and being told what hey will receive should they win AFTER the game?
3 - Sports Books are delibrately playing with the pools to shaft the shrewd bettor. Shrewd money goes in - mug money stays in the coffers of the sports books.
How long will this continue? Surely there are sports books out there that are prepared offer fixed odds for Horse racing? Where are these so called handicappers?
Take a leaf from the UK where most books have fixed odds for at least 6 races a day and many have more. Further you can bet on the exchanges at fixed odds and 1% vig for all UK races. Yes, there is a pari-mutuel system there as well and sports books do try and influence the SP of horses there as well but bettors have the chioice of fixed odds and the comfort of knowing their return. Wake up US sports books - Surely you can have fixed odds for races set to 15% juice for the morning of a race?
1 - Unless all the money bet on the race goes into the pool - it represents a false market.
2 - In this day and age should you have to wait for a return to determine how much money you receive. Would anyone accept betting on an NFL game and being told what hey will receive should they win AFTER the game?
3 - Sports Books are delibrately playing with the pools to shaft the shrewd bettor. Shrewd money goes in - mug money stays in the coffers of the sports books.
How long will this continue? Surely there are sports books out there that are prepared offer fixed odds for Horse racing? Where are these so called handicappers?
Take a leaf from the UK where most books have fixed odds for at least 6 races a day and many have more. Further you can bet on the exchanges at fixed odds and 1% vig for all UK races. Yes, there is a pari-mutuel system there as well and sports books do try and influence the SP of horses there as well but bettors have the chioice of fixed odds and the comfort of knowing their return. Wake up US sports books - Surely you can have fixed odds for races set to 15% juice for the morning of a race?
valueman,
English and European bettors are more clever than American bettors. be it sports or horses.
pari-mutuel is a good system, old but not antiquated. each market has its own set of dynamics, what works in the market and what is tolerated by the market usually stays.
I have been investigating fixed odds betting in the UK (thanks to your inputs) and boy... as well as prices on betting exchanges... fixed odds on american racing is only offered on the big events, Triple Crown, Kentucky Derby, Breeders Cup.
.....
as to offshore books putting money back in the pool, I don't get it. Horse bettors lose more than they win. They are throwing away money they could keep.
English and European bettors are more clever than American bettors. be it sports or horses.
pari-mutuel is a good system, old but not antiquated. each market has its own set of dynamics, what works in the market and what is tolerated by the market usually stays.
I have been investigating fixed odds betting in the UK (thanks to your inputs) and boy... as well as prices on betting exchanges... fixed odds on american racing is only offered on the big events, Triple Crown, Kentucky Derby, Breeders Cup.
.....
as to offshore books putting money back in the pool, I don't get it. Horse bettors lose more than they win. They are throwing away money they could keep.
the one plus side to some money (sports book choice) going into the pools is that that money does help to support the horse racing community and horse racing as a sport. I just wish they would state up front what they are doing.
Valueman, a crew from the UK came to Las Vegas and attempted to book horses using fixed odds. They purchased a building on paradise road, remodelled it lavishly and opened for business after a lengthy battle over licensing suitability with Nevada's Gaming Board.
Within one month the Horse betting crews destroyed them and they needed more money. Billy Walters loaned them enough money to go another month or so. In another month or so he foreclosed on their business and the BEACH nightclub stands their today.
I know the UK bookmakers offer fixed odds on horse racing but the boys from Vegas already crushed one of the outfits from across the pond and sent them packing licking their wounds.
Within one month the Horse betting crews destroyed them and they needed more money. Billy Walters loaned them enough money to go another month or so. In another month or so he foreclosed on their business and the BEACH nightclub stands their today.
I know the UK bookmakers offer fixed odds on horse racing but the boys from Vegas already crushed one of the outfits from across the pond and sent them packing licking their wounds.
Why can't US Books offer fixed odds on horse racing - surely they have competent handicappers who can price up a book. UK Bookmakers doing fixed odds on US racing was a stupid idea from the onset - the knowledge base was not there. There is no logical reason why having fixed odds for US racing should be any more difficult than in the UK.
Obviously the risk management work will have to increase but there has to people who can do this. UK Bookmakers aren't stupid and wouldn't be doing this unless they were making money doing so - they are not crazy and won't take $20000 on a fixed odds early in the day but offer the service which:
1 - Gives the bettor a guarantee of their return.
2 - Makes the sports books money.
3 - Gives the sports books a strong indication of where the money is coming from and how the race market should be priced at time of race.
Choice is what its all about - WOULD YOU ACCEPT DOING A BET ON NFL WITHOUT KNOWING YOUR RETURN? - SO WHY ARE US HORSE RACE BETTORS SECOND CLASS CITIZENS WHEN IT COMES TO BETTING?
Obviously the risk management work will have to increase but there has to people who can do this. UK Bookmakers aren't stupid and wouldn't be doing this unless they were making money doing so - they are not crazy and won't take $20000 on a fixed odds early in the day but offer the service which:
1 - Gives the bettor a guarantee of their return.
2 - Makes the sports books money.
3 - Gives the sports books a strong indication of where the money is coming from and how the race market should be priced at time of race.
Choice is what its all about - WOULD YOU ACCEPT DOING A BET ON NFL WITHOUT KNOWING YOUR RETURN? - SO WHY ARE US HORSE RACE BETTORS SECOND CLASS CITIZENS WHEN IT COMES TO BETTING?
Previous Thread
ITP -
I think this is the thread you were talking about
Specifically, perhaps, this quote:
Some responses I got from Pinnacle (it's amazing what you can find out if you ask the book). These are paraphrased, but I feel represent the answers.
Whether the money you bet with them finds it's way back into the track parimutual pook will be decided on a wager by wager basis. They will SOMETIMES be laying off the wager, sometimes keeping it, depending on their own handicapping, the level of exposure, and how good they think the client is at horses. When they lay it off, with smaller parimutuals it will probably find it's way back into the parimutual pool, with larger parimutuals, it probably will NOT.
KEY word being PROBABLY.
So, if you are going to make a wager that will affect the payout, expect it to make its way back to the pool.
As of this time, they have no intention of adding Canadian harness tracks to the available tracks.
Good Luck,
Bart
ITP -
I think this is the thread you were talking about
Specifically, perhaps, this quote:
Some responses I got from Pinnacle (it's amazing what you can find out if you ask the book). These are paraphrased, but I feel represent the answers.
Whether the money you bet with them finds it's way back into the track parimutual pook will be decided on a wager by wager basis. They will SOMETIMES be laying off the wager, sometimes keeping it, depending on their own handicapping, the level of exposure, and how good they think the client is at horses. When they lay it off, with smaller parimutuals it will probably find it's way back into the parimutual pool, with larger parimutuals, it probably will NOT.
KEY word being PROBABLY.
So, if you are going to make a wager that will affect the payout, expect it to make its way back to the pool.
As of this time, they have no intention of adding Canadian harness tracks to the available tracks.
Good Luck,
Bart
