Just Started Reading a Book Called "Godless: How an Evangelical Preacher Became one of America's Leading Atheists"

[festeringZit]

It was devout Christian William Wilberforce who valiantly led the effort to abolish the slave trade, based on principles set forth in the New Testament.

It was detailed in the hit movie "Amazing Grace"



http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0454776/

William Wilberforce (24 August 1759 – 29 July 1833) was a British politician, a philanthropist and a leader of the movement to abolish the slave trade. A native of Kingston upon Hull, Yorkshire, he began his political career in 1780 and became the independent Member of Parliament for Yorkshire (1784–1812). In 1785, he underwent a conversion experience and became an evangelical Christian, resulting in major changes to his lifestyle and a lifelong concern for reform. In 1787, he came into contact with Thomas Clarkson and a group of anti-slave-trade activists, including Granville Sharp, Hannah More and Charles Middleton. They persuaded Wilberforce to take on the cause of abolition, and he soon became one of the leading English abolitionists. He headed the parliamentary campaign against the British slave trade for twenty-six years until the passage of the Slave Trade Act 1807.
Wilberforce was convinced of the importance of religion, morality, and education. He championed causes and campaigns such as the Society for Suppression of Vice, British missionary work in India, the creation of a free colony in Sierra Leone, the foundation of the Church Mission Society and the Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals. His underlying conservatism led him to support politically and socially repressive legislation, and resulted in criticism that he was ignoring injustices at home while campaigning for the enslaved abroad.
In later years, Wilberforce supported the campaign for the complete abolition of slavery, and continued his involvement after 1826, when he resigned from Parliament because of his failing health. That campaign led to the Slavery Abolition Act 1833, which abolished slavery in most of the British Empire; Wilberforce died just three days after hearing that the passage of the Act through Parliament was assured. He was buried in Westminster Abbey, close to his friend William Pitt.

 

[DesertDevil]

I am perfectly okay with saying "I don't know".

So doesnt make you agnostic, rather than atheist? Just asking...

 

[Bjizzle06]

The Christian god makes no effort to condemn the owning of another human being. It's savage, immoral and barbaric. Even if I believed in that nonsense, I would cheerfully burn in hell before I would bow down to such a god.

Immoral??? How? What objective standard of morality are you appealing to?

 

[xpanda]

Because the people who think they know a god exists have hijacked the Republican party. It's dangerous thinking that potentially has severe consequences should they continue to gain political power.

And the people who think they know a god doesn't exist have hijacked the Democrat party. They all look like buffoons. All the more reason to vote Libertarian.

 

[trytrytry]

hello xpanda..where have you been?

 

[quantumleap]

And the people who think they know a god doesn't exist have hijacked the Democrat party. They all look like buffoons. All the more reason to vote Libertarian.

I agree with this post except for the cases when Ron Paul is running for office in which case I vote for a Republican.

 

[barman]

Re: Bjizzle post to me on page one

No worries here, brother.

There is no "right" or "wrong" way to live a life founded on Christian principles. God assures Her love for all of us regardless.

Anyone who tells you different is selling something.

 

This was my experience also as I tried to read the whole Bible cover-to-cover. The people who were the leaders were able to tell the followers what to do by claiming that God told them to do these things. It was a system of control in order to conquer new lands. I refuse to worship a God that would command people to do the things written in the Old Testament.

This doesn't mean the whole system is in error. Parts of the system have merit. Similarly Christianity had it's Inquisition and its Crusades but has some merit to the system.

It matters not to me what "merit" a system of genocidal mania might have. Those "merits" are so inconsequential compared to genocide that they cannot possibly offset the evil which this system created and perpetrated. And still does. Two thousand years of wars based on who's version of the Christian "God" is better? No thanks. The entire thing is without merit. Prior to that, the Hebrews murdered millions of people for the sin of living in the wrong place. To list all of the "Christian" wars and acts of genocide would take up many tens if not hundreds of pages. The numbers of their victims run into the hundreds of millions. The Old Testament contains hundreds and hundreds of descriptions (in great detail) of mass murder. It is sickening.

It matters not to me what these evil systems teach if their actions produce these results.

 

[Stylez]

guess we will find out once we die , its nice to believe that there is something more.. . ..

 

[festeringZit]

It matters not to me what "merit" a system of genocidal mania might have. Those "merits" are so inconsequential compared to genocide that they cannot possibly offset the evil which this system created and perpetrated. And still does. Two thousand years of wars based on who's version of the Christian "God" is better? No thanks. The entire thing is without merit. Prior to that, the Hebrews murdered millions of people for the sin of living in the wrong place. To list all of the "Christian" wars and acts of genocide would take up many tens if not hundreds of pages. The numbers of their victims run into the hundreds of millions. The Old Testament contains hundreds and hundreds of descriptions (in great detail) of mass murder. It is sickening.

It matters not to me what these evil systems teach if their actions produce these results.

Hmm... wondering why you forgot to mention the > 100 Million killed by atheistic communist regimes( in this century alone)?

Notice that the 100 Million figure doesn't even include wars...


"The Black Book of Communism: Crimes, Terror, Repression, published by Harvard University Press, is the work of eleven scholars that ignited a continental firestorm when it first hit bookstores in France in 1997. The authors estimate the century's death toll at the hands of Communist governments (excluding wars) at 100 million people. Country by country, deaths by the state in China stand at 65 million, in the USSR 20 million, Vietnam 1 million, North Korea 2 million, Cambodia 2 million, Eastern Europe 1 million, Latin America 150,000, Africa 1.7 million, and Afghanistan 1.5 million. Additionally, the international Communist movement murdered about 10,000 people throughout the world." (Author's emphasis).

 

[GoSooners]

guess we will find out once we die , its nice to believe that there is something more.. . ..

I think what scares many people is the idea that there is nothing more after we die. Personally I don't think that way because of all of the paranormal activity that has been documented over the years. Something probably happens after we die. We just don't know for sure if it's good or bad.

 

[JDeuce]

You could mockingly rip apart atheism the same way the author claims to do so with Christianity in the very first post.

It isn't difficult to work out that athiest fundamentalists are deluded- those people who think the entire universe began after a random explosion; people who believe literally that some random atomic mass, presumably carrying living cells, all somehow meshed together to form a living creature that one day walked out of the sea and started his own civilization...

Etc, etc. The truth is atheism has to be based on some form of faith as well. I think someone could hit an entire season-long NFL parlay, picking every single side and total correctly from Week 1 all the way through the playoffs, before something like the big bang could occur.

Sorry, but what I read in the first post is hardly a new argument. Either side which claims they have it all figured out is full of crap.

 

[festeringZit]

You could mockingly rip apart atheism the same way the author claims to do so with Christianity in the very first post.

It isn't difficult to work out that athiest fundamentalists are deluded- those people who think the entire universe began after a random explosion; people who believe literally that some random atomic mass, presumably carrying living cells, all somehow meshed together to form a living creature that one day walked out of the sea and started his own civilization...

Etc, etc. The truth is atheism has to be based on some form of faith as well. I think someone could hit an entire season-long NFL parlay, picking every single side and total correctly from Week 1 all the way through the playoffs, before something like the big bang could occur.

Sorry, but what I read in the first post is hardly a new argument. Either side which claims they have it all figured out is full of crap.

Great post JDeuce. I'm guessing it's more like pick every parlay, side and total for 1,000 years in a row...

It's pretty sad when these worshipers of the religion of Darwinism act like science has somehow proven that life as we know it evolved from nothing. Nothing, which
turned into swamp goo, which turned into some sort of fish, which eventually turned into humans? Bullshit.

 

[quantumleap]

It matters not to me what "merit" a system of genocidal mania might have. Those "merits" are so inconsequential compared to genocide that they cannot possibly offset the evil which this system created and perpetrated. And still does. Two thousand years of wars based on who's version of the Christian "God" is better? No thanks. The entire thing is without merit. Prior to that, the Hebrews murdered millions of people for the sin of living in the wrong place. To list all of the "Christian" wars and acts of genocide would take up many tens if not hundreds of pages. The numbers of their victims run into the hundreds of millions. The Old Testament contains hundreds and hundreds of descriptions (in great detail) of mass murder. It is sickening.

It matters not to me what these evil systems teach if their actions produce these results.

Every system such as this is complex. Don't put all of it in the same ball of wax.

Not everyone who was a Hebrew subscribed to this mass murder in the same way not every Christian subscribed to all the atrocities attributed to the Church. There were rogue Hebrew leaders that were murderous but not all of them were.

 

[DeathEatsaCracker]

So doesnt make you agnostic, rather than atheist? Just asking...

I've often said that I'm an Atheist when it comes to religion and an Agnostic when it comes to a god or gods.

 

[DesertDevil]

I've often said that I'm an Atheist when it comes to religion and an Agnostic when it comes to a god or gods.

Well I half agree with you then. Sort of.

I bow down to no man or no religion. I answer to God and his Son Jesus Christ.

I let no church or man tell me how to live my life. I will answer to the Lord when I pass. No Pope or Preacher.

God bless you and your continued search for peace and the truth.

 

[Bjizzle06]

I think someone could hit an entire season-long NFL parlay, picking every single side and total correctly from Week 1 all the way through the playoffs, before something like the big bang could occur.

The thrust of what you say here is dead on -- but it's actually more like hitting an entire season long parlay of every side and total of every game from week 1 to Superbowl for 100,000 consecutive seasons. The chances of the big bang producing a universe so uniquely fine-tuned for intelligent life are so infinitesimally slim, the only logical explanation is a creator hypothesis or some sort of multiverse hypothesis.

 

Hmm... wondering why you forgot to mention the > 100 Million killed by atheistic communist regimes( in this century alone)?

Notice that the 100 Million figure doesn't even include wars...


"The Black Book of Communism: Crimes, Terror, Repression, published by Harvard University Press, is the work of eleven scholars that ignited a continental firestorm when it first hit bookstores in France in 1997. The authors estimate the century's death toll at the hands of Communist governments (excluding wars) at 100 million people. Country by country, deaths by the state in China stand at 65 million, in the USSR 20 million, Vietnam 1 million, North Korea 2 million, Cambodia 2 million, Eastern Europe 1 million, Latin America 150,000, Africa 1.7 million, and Afghanistan 1.5 million. Additionally, the international Communist movement murdered about 10,000 people throughout the world." (Author's emphasis).

We are discussing the Bible, not sure what communism has to do with the Bible. You are insinuating that I do not hold the communists in the same contempt, and you are incorrect.

 

Every system such as this is complex. Don't put all of it in the same ball of wax.

Not everyone who was a Hebrew subscribed to this mass murder in the same way not every Christian subscribed to all the atrocities attributed to the Church. There were rogue Hebrew leaders that were murderous but not all of them were.

Your point is moot. The Old Testament is a book of lies, half truths, and myth. The main purpose of the Old Testament was to tell lies so that the genocidal maniacs who murdered at least a dozen nations by their own admission could claim that "God" told them to do this. These people were not "rogue", they instituted a system to keep absolute power with the threat of murder in "God's" name for anyone who did not obey them.

The Christians were worse. They fought bloody war after bloody war for 2,000 years in the name of their "Christ", murdering millions of non-Christians and Christians who were of the "wrong" belief systems.

I am not going to accept these atrocities just because a few people might not have gone along with them. During the World Wars, the "Christian" participants murdered over 65 million people. Search all you want, you will not find "Christian" clergy or laity or parishioners rising up in protest to these murders.

 

Not everyone who was a Hebrew subscribed to this mass murder in the same way

Actually, this statement is completely incorrect. During the wars of genocide waged by the Israelites, all male Israelites above a certain age were required to fight in the army. Refusal to fight in the army was immediately punished with a death sentence, by stoning. There was no opposition to the genocide carried out against all the nations and tribes that occupied the land that the Israelites decided to steal from the rightful inhabitants. Opposition to these crimes was simply not possible. Even if a few people opposed the genocide which the Israelites later attempted to cover up by creating the Old Testament, that can in no way turn the Old Testament from a book which is propaganda to hide the genocide to the true "word of God". This is preposterous.