Just Started Reading a Book Called "Godless: How an Evangelical Preacher Became one of America's Leading Atheists"

[DeathEatsaCracker]

The existence of god(s) can be neither proven nor disproven given current technology. Why not just hand ourselves over to simply not knowing? Why is it so difficult for people to discern between what they believe and what they know?

Because the people who think they know a god exists have hijacked the Republican party. It's dangerous thinking that potentially has severe consequences should they continue to gain political power.

 

[barman]

Couple of excerpts that I've highlighted:

...it slowly dawned on me that there is no single Christianity- that there are thousands of Christianities. (There may be as many Christianities as there are Christians.) There are many hundreds of denominations and sects, and each one of them can open a bible and prove that theirs is the correct interpretation and the others are all off in some way, either slightly aberrant or grossly wrong. They can all do that.

Every generation of Christians, including the first, has thought that they were living in the "end times".

Excellent and accurate. It took me until age 35 to learn that one can be a happy adherent to core principles taught by Christ without needing to affiliate oneself with any of the hundreds of sects who each insist that their own perceptions are the only "correct" ways to live with a Christ-based consciousness.

And in same vein, I learned that one could follow Christ-taught principles while also acknowledging that the Old Testament is essentially a book of mythological stories wrapped around often dubious historical accountings

 

[Bjizzle06]

Excellent and accurate. It took me until age 35 to learn that one can be a happy adherent to core principles taught by Christ without needing to affiliate oneself with any of the hundreds of sects who each insist that their own perceptions are the only "correct" ways to live with a Christ-based consciousness.

Lol you have to see the irony in what you're saying...you bash the denominations who think their interpretation is absolutely correct. Yet you choose not to affiliate with a denomination, and you think this view the absolutely correct view. :think2:

Are you not sawing off the branch at which you sit upon?

And in same vein, I learned that one could follow Christ-taught principles while also acknowledging that the Old Testament is essentially a book of mythological stories wrapped around often dubious historical accountings

Old testament innerancy is definitely not essential to Christianity -- agreed.

 

^^^^ You anti-semite. I can see right through your bullshit post.

So show me where I am wrong. I say that the Old Testament describes countless cases of genocide by the people who call themselves the Hebrews against other people who occupy land that the Hebrews want to take. Show me where I am wrong.

 

^^^^ You anti-semite. I can see right through your bullshit post.

So, how does my pointing out what the Old Testament says (with accuracy) make me opposed to the modern day Jews? Explain that please.

 

[DeathEatsaCracker]

curiousone, I'm pretty sure he was kidding.

 

[betedgeonly]

good thread. very interesting to say the least......the book's mentioned should make for some good read's...

 

[festeringZit]

Atheist Lee Strobel, legal editor for the Chicago Tribune with a Masters in Law Studies from Yale set out to disprove Christianity.

This brilliant read outlines what he found.

Synopsis

Using the dramatic scenario of an investigative journalist pursuing his story and leads, Lee Strobel uses his experience as a reporter for the Chicago Tribune to interview experts about the evidence for Christ from the fields of science, philosophy, and history. Winner of the Gold Medallion Book Award and twice nominated for the Christian Book of the Year Award.

 

[DeathEatsaCracker]

zit- we can sit here and copy and paste books that support our positions all day long. Where does that get us?

For those on the fence, just stop and think for a few minutes just how absurd religious beliefs are and keep in mind that the people who wrote the bible were nomadic sheep herders who didn't know where the sun went at night. Life is indeed a mystery, and I often wonder myself "why is there something instead of nothing". Science has answered how modern humans came to be through evolution, but it may never be able to answer questions on the origins of the universe. Just because we don't know is no reason to start believing in magic.

Not knowing is unacceptable to some people, and religion purports to know the answers to important questions like "where did we come from" and "why are we here", which is why people glom on to faith. I am perfectly okay with saying "I don't know".

 

[festeringZit]

zit- we can sit here and copy and paste books that support our positions all day long. Where does that get us?

For those on the fence, just stop and think for a few minutes just how absurd religious beliefs are and keep in mind that the people who wrote the bible were nomadic sheep herders who didn't know where the sun went at night. Life is indeed a mystery, and I often wonder myself "why is there something instead of nothing". Science has answered how modern humans came to be through evolution, but it may never be able to answer questions on the origins of the universe. Just because we don't know is no reason to start believing in magic.

Not knowing is unacceptable to some people, and religion purports to know the answers to important questions like "where did we come from" and "why are we here", which is why people glom on to faith. I am perfectly okay with saying "I don't know".

I think it's fair for me to present one side of the issue.

Science hasn't even come close to answering how modern humans came to be.

I disagree 100% with the mantra of your idol:

Humans have always wondered about the meaning of life...life has no higher purpose than to perpetuate the survival of DNA...life has no design, no purpose, no evil and no good, nothing but blind pitiless indifference.1--Richard Dawkins

PS. I can't think of one author of the ~60 books of the Bible that were sheep herders...

 

[DeathEatsaCracker]

zit- we can sit here and copy and paste books that support our positions all day long. Where does that get us?

For those on the fence, just stop and think for a few minutes just how absurd religious beliefs are and keep in mind that the people who wrote the bible were nomadic sheep herders who didn't know where the sun went at night. Life is indeed a mystery, and I often wonder myself "why is there something instead of nothing". Science has answered how modern humans came to be through evolution, but it may never be able to answer questions on the origins of the universe. Just because we don't know is no reason to start believing in magic.

Not knowing is unacceptable to some people, and religion purports to know the answers to important questions like "where did we come from" and "why are we here", which is why people glom on to faith. I am perfectly okay with saying "I don't know".

Let me add a few more things. Stop and think about the geographical impacts on what religion you will be. Most people are the same faith as their parents and family. If you are a Christian, it is likely that you were born in a Christian country to Christian parents. What if you were born in a remote region of Pakistan to Muslim parents with no exposure to Christianity?

Also consider the immorality of the bible. Why isn't slavery in the ten commandments? It forbids you to be jealous of your neighbor's ox, but owning another human being is ok? Does this sound like a book written/inspired by a supreme being, or primitive sheep herders? Many things that are considered reprehensible by modern society is condoned in the bible.

 

[quantumleap]

Why do you need this book to understand that the Bible is propaganda?

The mass murdering, genocidal maniacs who call themselves Hebrews or Israelites took some facts that paint them in a very bad light (genocidal maniacs) and used propaganda to claim that "God" told them to do all those horrible things. The New Testament is another set of half truths and un-truths which highlight Greek Philosophy with a bit of Roman law smattered in, the purpose of which is to pull people away from the Old Testament and the Hebrew clergy, so that they can now be abused by the "Christian" clergy.

If you get several good translations of the Bible and read it yourself you will see this with your own eyes. You won't need anyone else to tell you what is really going on. Here is just one example of the crimes committed by these genocidal maniacs:
Deuteronomy 20:16, 17,
16: "Only in the cities of these peoples that the LORD your God is giving you as an inheritance, you shall not leave alive anything that breathes.
17: But you shall utterly destroy them, the Hittite and the Amorite, the Canaanite and the Perizzite, the Hivite and the Jebusite, as the LORD your God has commanded you"

Here "God" is demanding that ALL inhabitants, including women, children, old people, EVERYONE in 6 nations be murdered. Now, no one warns these people that this is coming, nor does anyone tell them what sins they have committed, or explains what they can do to change and be accepted by "God". They are just murdered, all of them. Six cases of genocide against people who had no idea why they were being murdered.

This is totally outrageous.

The Old Testament is filled with this kind of insanity.

The Hebrews (Israelites) had a big problem after they committed all of these crimes. Everyone knew about it. So, they made up this idea that "God" had ordered them to do it, and that they were some sort of "Holy" people just carrying out "God's" orders in order to make up some excuse for their monstrous crimes. Preposterous.

This was my experience also as I tried to read the whole Bible cover-to-cover. The people who were the leaders were able to tell the followers what to do by claiming that God told them to do these things. It was a system of control in order to conquer new lands. I refuse to worship a God that would command people to do the things written in the Old Testament.

This doesn't mean the whole system is in error. Parts of the system have merit. Similarly Christianity had it's Inquisition and its Crusades but has some merit to the system.

 

[DeathEatsaCracker]

I think it's fair for me to present one side of the issue.

Science hasn't even come close to answering how modern humans came to be.

I disagree 100% with the mantra of your idol:

Humans have always wondered about the meaning of life...life has no higher purpose than to perpetuate the survival of DNA...life has no design, no purpose, no evil and no good, nothing but blind pitiless indifference.1--Richard Dawkins

Of course you disagree. That's exactly what I would expect you to do. I am under no illusion that I can change your mind. My purpose in these debates is to get people on the fence or those not quite as indoctrinated as you to think about the absurdity of religion.

 

[festeringZit]

Let me add a few more things. Stop and think about the geographical impacts on what religion you will be. Most people are the same faith as their parents and family. If you are a Christian, it is likely that you were born in a Christian country to Christian parents. What if you were born in a remote region of Pakistan to Muslim parents with no exposure to Christianity?

Also consider the immorality of the bible. Why isn't slavery in the ten commandments? It forbids you to be jealous of your neighbor's ox, but owning another human being is ok? Does this sound like a book written/inspired by a supreme being, or primitive sheep herders? Many things that are considered reprehensible by modern society is condoned in the bible.

Slavery in Biblical times was very different than the term as we know it. In many cases it was more like being an indentured servant, chosen by the servant for financial
reasons. The Bible doesn't condone it, but regulates existing practices.

 

[festeringZit]

This was my experience also as I tried to read the whole Bible cover-to-cover. The people who were the leaders were able to tell the followers what to do by claiming that God told them to do these things. It was a system of control in order to conquer new lands. I refuse to worship a God that would command people to do the things written in the Old Testament.

This doesn't mean the whole system is in error. Parts of the system have merit. Similarly Christianity had it's Inquisition and its Crusades but has some merit to the system.

I wouldn't equate the Roman Catholic Church with Christianity as a whole. Personally I think the Roman Catholic Church, and it's abominable history is a false church.

 

[DeathEatsaCracker]

I wouldn't equate the Roman Catholic Church with Christianity as a whole. Personally I think the Roman Catholic Church, and it's abominable history is a false church.

And in case those "indentured servants" get out of line, the bible is also a handy reference guide in how to properly beat them.

When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property. Exodus 21:20-21

 

[festeringZit]

And in case those "indentured servants" get out of line, the bible is also a handy reference guide in how to properly beat them.

When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property. Exodus 21:20-21

"The protection here afforded to the life of a slave may seem to us but a slight one; but it is the very earliest trace of such protection in legislation, and it stands in strong and favorable contrast with the old laws of Greece, Rome, and all the other nations where slavery was a very common and accepted practice."

 

[DeathEatsaCracker]

The Christian god makes no effort to condemn the owning of another human being. It's savage, immoral and barbaric. Even if I believed in that nonsense, I would cheerfully burn in hell before I would bow down to such a god.

 

[festeringZit]

The Christian god makes no effort to condemn the owning of another human being. It's savage, immoral and barbaric. Even if I believed in that nonsense, I would cheerfully burn in hell before I would bow down to such a god.

It was devout Christian William Wilberforce who valiantly led the effort to abolish the slave trade, based on principles set forth in the New Testament.

It was detailed in the hit movie "Amazing Grace"



http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0454776/

 

[betedgeonly]

The Christian god makes no effort to condemn the owning of another human being. It's savage, immoral and barbaric. Even if I believed in that nonsense, I would cheerfully burn in hell before I would bow down to such a god.

why has it alway's seemed that God has had a way for these slaves to be given freedom??? is there a country today that is practicing slavery as we speak???