I'm one of the last people to dodge responsibility or blame others for my own stupidity. If I get scammed, it's certainly not Neteller's fault in any way, but they could still improve their own reputation by not doing business with crooks. I would do that if I were them, but then that's just me.
I agree with Patrick and drunkguy.
Neteller as a "money-broker" should provide equality of conditions for all new companies that wish to purchase a Merchant Code. Maybe not only equal chances, but also set some minimal standards of quality, in order to assure most merchants will have financial liquidity. But they should by all means, refuse to make business with proven scammers.
The question in that case would be: Would Neteller be willing to lose the volume not perceived by not accepting so many companies?
The 2 main issues to consider in this especific case are:
1. Would they be willing to lose that volume? Now, if they were willing to lose that volume, but insure a high standard of credibility for every merchant they provided the service for; would that make up for the declined business? Would the players be willing to pay a higher percentage on their transaction, in order to have the ease they won't get stiffed by the approved merchants? Security, guys, comes always a t a price.
2. They should -by all means- restrict the ability of a merchant to receive funds via Neteller once it has been proven beyond any reasonable doubt that this merchant is refusing to pay their customers.That'd be only fair for the players that are paying money to use their services. From the Neteller stand point, that would definitely translate into loss of profits, for these guys' business profitability is based on the amount of transactions. It all comes down to a question of morality and ethics . Unfortunately, there are no rigid standards to be attained in that field.
This is pretty much a question that could be asked to the watchdog sites of this indutry too. Will a "watchdog" site make the right call when there's advertising bucks in the way? BTW, Just a couple of days ago, Shrink and Russ took a stand regarding Royal; so if the men can, why can't the folks at NT follow suite?
Neteller as a "money-broker" should provide equality of conditions for all new companies that wish to purchase a Merchant Code. Maybe not only equal chances, but also set some minimal standards of quality, in order to assure most merchants will have financial liquidity. But they should by all means, refuse to make business with proven scammers.
The question in that case would be: Would Neteller be willing to lose the volume not perceived by not accepting so many companies?
The 2 main issues to consider in this especific case are:
1. Would they be willing to lose that volume? Now, if they were willing to lose that volume, but insure a high standard of credibility for every merchant they provided the service for; would that make up for the declined business? Would the players be willing to pay a higher percentage on their transaction, in order to have the ease they won't get stiffed by the approved merchants? Security, guys, comes always a t a price.
2. They should -by all means- restrict the ability of a merchant to receive funds via Neteller once it has been proven beyond any reasonable doubt that this merchant is refusing to pay their customers.That'd be only fair for the players that are paying money to use their services. From the Neteller stand point, that would definitely translate into loss of profits, for these guys' business profitability is based on the amount of transactions. It all comes down to a question of morality and ethics . Unfortunately, there are no rigid standards to be attained in that field.
This is pretty much a question that could be asked to the watchdog sites of this indutry too. Will a "watchdog" site make the right call when there's advertising bucks in the way? BTW, Just a couple of days ago, Shrink and Russ took a stand regarding Royal; so if the men can, why can't the folks at NT follow suite?
Walk,
Great post -- pretty much sums it up I would say.
I think it's pretty clear that taking this sort of action against the one or two world champion of crookedness, proven-beyond-even-the-guy-with-the-wildest-imagination's-doubt cases would be a good move for Neteller.
But I also think a single mistake in the other direction, ie. sanctioning a book by mistake which is not crooked is a very, very, serious error and could put them into a hole that is hard to get out of.
So the issue is very delicate indeed.
And you are right, it boils down to morality and ethics, for which there are no hard and fast rules.
Great post -- pretty much sums it up I would say.
I think it's pretty clear that taking this sort of action against the one or two world champion of crookedness, proven-beyond-even-the-guy-with-the-wildest-imagination's-doubt cases would be a good move for Neteller.
But I also think a single mistake in the other direction, ie. sanctioning a book by mistake which is not crooked is a very, very, serious error and could put them into a hole that is hard to get out of.
So the issue is very delicate indeed.
And you are right, it boils down to morality and ethics, for which there are no hard and fast rules.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by si1verfish:
NETeller has no business or obligation to "police" the the industry. They are simply a middle-broker. It is my responsibility to make educated decisions with my money. Does your stockbroker "police" the markets for you as well? Nope, it's none of their business where I choose to put my money (sh*t, I think even Enron still trades on the Pink Sheets at .00003 pennies/share).
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I think you used an improper analogy here in referring to stockbrokers as playing a similar role as a company such as Neteller.
Stockbrokers, now more commonly referred to as financial advisors, have a fiduciary responsibility to make informed recommendations based on the investor profile (age, time horizon, risk tolerance, etc.). One of the reasons that many brokers have been sued over the last 3 years is because they allowed clients to make substantial investments in companies that did not show financial promise. It was all based on pure speculation and in the end, investors were burned when all of the air came out of the market and fear set in that everyone was beginning to act on the fact that the securities were heavily overvalued.
[This message was edited by Boxing Freak on July 31, 2003 at 02:22 PM.]
NETeller has no business or obligation to "police" the the industry. They are simply a middle-broker. It is my responsibility to make educated decisions with my money. Does your stockbroker "police" the markets for you as well? Nope, it's none of their business where I choose to put my money (sh*t, I think even Enron still trades on the Pink Sheets at .00003 pennies/share).
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I think you used an improper analogy here in referring to stockbrokers as playing a similar role as a company such as Neteller.
Stockbrokers, now more commonly referred to as financial advisors, have a fiduciary responsibility to make informed recommendations based on the investor profile (age, time horizon, risk tolerance, etc.). One of the reasons that many brokers have been sued over the last 3 years is because they allowed clients to make substantial investments in companies that did not show financial promise. It was all based on pure speculation and in the end, investors were burned when all of the air came out of the market and fear set in that everyone was beginning to act on the fact that the securities were heavily overvalued.
[This message was edited by Boxing Freak on July 31, 2003 at 02:22 PM.]
Hello Everyone,
NETeller regularly deals with over 1200 online merchants and we take all complaints from our members about slow pay/no pay very seriously. We investigate every complaint we receive and do not hesitate to shut down merchants who prove to be unreputable. As for the Net Points thing, we are working on that. I have recently raised the limits though
NETeller regularly deals with over 1200 online merchants and we take all complaints from our members about slow pay/no pay very seriously. We investigate every complaint we receive and do not hesitate to shut down merchants who prove to be unreputable. As for the Net Points thing, we are working on that. I have recently raised the limits though
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by bigbrother:
colin,
why the rule with maryland now i dont understand this at all.
why is maryland singled out now??<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I think "Colin" answered that in another thread. Here's my take on Neteller in general:
1) Be very careful of your balances. I would not keep more than I was willing to lose in a Neteller account.
2) Neteller does business with organizations that employ criminals and have operations that most US government officials believe are illegal or should be deemed as such.
3) By wagering offshore you are involved in what your state and federal officials consider an illegal (or deemed as such) activity. The legality of your use of Neteller to conduct this activity is questionable at best.
4) Neteller is in Canada, a country that is a friend of the US and has a government that WILL cooperate with any investigations into the activity of a company based there.
5) Keep your balances in reputable books and use Neteller as a transfer agent between the books. If you live in MD and lose frequently and do not have funds at other books to transfer between them, use Western Union to reload. It's inconvenient but what can you do...move?
6) Stay ahead of the game. The news in MD is not good for Neteller, even if it just a simple fee payment dispute. If you are waiting for Neteller to give you an answer that you find acceptable...keep waiting.
I use Neteller all the time and I think they are very solid. However, they are who they are and they deal with companies that the US government does not think we (Americans) should transact with.
Be smart...Limit your risk!!
I just wish I did things differently rather than have Neteller transactions all over my bank account.
colin,
why the rule with maryland now i dont understand this at all.
why is maryland singled out now??<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I think "Colin" answered that in another thread. Here's my take on Neteller in general:
1) Be very careful of your balances. I would not keep more than I was willing to lose in a Neteller account.
2) Neteller does business with organizations that employ criminals and have operations that most US government officials believe are illegal or should be deemed as such.
3) By wagering offshore you are involved in what your state and federal officials consider an illegal (or deemed as such) activity. The legality of your use of Neteller to conduct this activity is questionable at best.
4) Neteller is in Canada, a country that is a friend of the US and has a government that WILL cooperate with any investigations into the activity of a company based there.
5) Keep your balances in reputable books and use Neteller as a transfer agent between the books. If you live in MD and lose frequently and do not have funds at other books to transfer between them, use Western Union to reload. It's inconvenient but what can you do...move?
6) Stay ahead of the game. The news in MD is not good for Neteller, even if it just a simple fee payment dispute. If you are waiting for Neteller to give you an answer that you find acceptable...keep waiting.
I use Neteller all the time and I think they are very solid. However, they are who they are and they deal with companies that the US government does not think we (Americans) should transact with.
Be smart...Limit your risk!!
I just wish I did things differently rather than have Neteller transactions all over my bank account.
OMT-
I'm sure they are still growing they are a very solid operation. As I mentioned, I am just careful when I leave funds there. Frankly, I rarely if ever need to make a deposit and I have an out that pays me 10% (per year) interest on my balances. I just use Neteller as a transfer agent not a bank. BookA - Neteller...Neteller - BookB...Winnings or other $$ from any Book - Neteller - TheSwami Bank. In this case Neteller gets paid transaction fees so they are happy but unfortunately (for them) they don't get the interest on the balances in the account since I keep minimal amounts, if anything, there.
They've lowered the fees on the debit card which is good. Fortunately, the card doesn't carry a visa/mc logo otherwise I would get it and have another way for big brother to track me. In a perfect world, they would base their operation in the Cayman's (or some such place offshore), have a card with a Visa/MC logo, and pay interest on balances. If that was the case they would get ALL my business. Unfortunately, they are Canadian and I think their gov't would force them to bend over if W. and the boys came a knockin'. All that is necessary to say is that they are collecting social security numbers
. For God's sake, my mother doesn't even know that.
Can't answer the bit about checks given that I've only used EFT with them.
Does anyone use Neteller for any purpose other than wagering?
I'm hoping that if it is used for online auctions and such that I will have some protection should the Feds come down on them. Maybe the worse the situation will get is similar to Paypal when you knew the date they were going to stop processing gaming transactions.
I'm sure they are still growing they are a very solid operation. As I mentioned, I am just careful when I leave funds there. Frankly, I rarely if ever need to make a deposit and I have an out that pays me 10% (per year) interest on my balances. I just use Neteller as a transfer agent not a bank. BookA - Neteller...Neteller - BookB...Winnings or other $$ from any Book - Neteller - TheSwami Bank. In this case Neteller gets paid transaction fees so they are happy but unfortunately (for them) they don't get the interest on the balances in the account since I keep minimal amounts, if anything, there.
They've lowered the fees on the debit card which is good. Fortunately, the card doesn't carry a visa/mc logo otherwise I would get it and have another way for big brother to track me. In a perfect world, they would base their operation in the Cayman's (or some such place offshore), have a card with a Visa/MC logo, and pay interest on balances. If that was the case they would get ALL my business. Unfortunately, they are Canadian and I think their gov't would force them to bend over if W. and the boys came a knockin'. All that is necessary to say is that they are collecting social security numbers
Can't answer the bit about checks given that I've only used EFT with them.
Does anyone use Neteller for any purpose other than wagering?
I'm hoping that if it is used for online auctions and such that I will have some protection should the Feds come down on them. Maybe the worse the situation will get is similar to Paypal when you knew the date they were going to stop processing gaming transactions.
Thanks--Yes, I've never done anything but EFT's with them either and it has been a long time since I've funded Neteller from bank. So I don't know about checks either. Like you I don't want that on my bank statement SHOULD this bill become law. So-I think or have heard that these check cashing places cash checks for a fee. Have Never even been in one. But it just hit me--(I'm loosing it), that they too would want ID--so I guess it makes no difference anyway. I can't go along with the Western Union idea--THAT-IMHO--wil be the first place the feds go after-Easy target!
Maybe under 1000. might be safe, but the key will be WHERE it is sent and they're not stupid, when more than a couple are the same amt and the same Carribean--Look the hell out.
Bush formed a whole new beaucrazy--"homeland Security"--Like I said EASY target. Maybe-I'm just a worry wort but how the little guy can play under this pressure is beyond me!
Bush formed a whole new beaucrazy--"homeland Security"--Like I said EASY target. Maybe-I'm just a worry wort but how the little guy can play under this pressure is beyond me!
