How hard is it for you to FOLD AA or KK after you have bet big....and also....

[pokerpills]

Once an Ace flops, your KK isn't nearly as good as Ace-duck.

Curiously, the same people that would check and fold with A2 in a A-9-6 flop, are willing to fire in a big bet with KK! Ridiculous, given that A2 is a better hand at that point, AND has the advantage of taking out 1 of the 3 missing aces.

IMO, JJ, QQ, or KK with an Ace flop is a check and fold situation with 2 or more opponents left.

Fezzik, the correct move with pocket Kings is you still have to place a bet after the flop, if not strong, at least a mid-size bet and here is the reasoning: if you've raised it enough preflop, most players, even an average player will have not call with an Ace rag. In the event that someone does call with an ace rag, you have to lead out and bet because if you check, there will be no doubt in their mind that you have an under pocket pair. You've basically surrendered your hand if they bet. If you lead out and bet a decent amount, you will now leave your opponent with a dilemma. In poker, you want to make your opponent feel the most heat and make the difficult decisions, not the other way around. With an Ace rag and an Ace appearing on the flop, your opponent will be left with a difficult decision because he has to put you on a strong kicker for you to be raising preflop that much. The chances of him folding after a decent flop bet is high. True, you can check on the flop but in the long run, you will be eaten alive at a table with good players.

 

[Dante]

Fezzik, the correct move with pocket Kings is you still have to place a bet after the flop, if not strong, at least a mid-size bet and here is the reasoning: if you've raised it enough preflop, most players, even an average player will have not call with an Ace rag. In the event that someone does call with an ace rag, you have to lead out and bet because if you check, there will be no doubt in their mind that you have an under pocket pair. You've basically surrendered your hand if they bet. If you lead out and bet a decent amount, you will now leave your opponent with a dilemma. In poker, you want to make your opponent feel the most heat and make the difficult decisions, not the other way around. With an Ace rag and an Ace appearing on the flop, your opponent will be left with a difficult decision because he has to put you on a strong kicker for you to be raising preflop that much. The chances of him folding after a decent flop bet is high. True, you can check on the flop but in the long run, you will be eaten alive at a table with good players.

great post PP ON the money advise IMO

 

[Fezzik]

No limit poker vs. midlevel limit poker

I've been playing midlevel limit poker, and it's bye bye to Kings in this situation, you get called my Mr. A8 seemingly every time.

I agree with your advice at higher stakes and no limit.

 

[pokerpills]

On limit hold em', it is totally different strategy. I believe everyone was talking about no limit here.

 

[WorldNumberOne]

my fav hand is 10 / jack suited...

any straight is the nuts..

and a jack high flush aint bad either.

 

[pokerpills]

my fav hand is 10 / jack suited...

any straight is the nuts..

and a jack high flush aint bad either.

My exact favorite hand World.

 

[Dante]

for some reason I like 10/8 also

 

[max1234]

My fave is AA... at least I"m ahead for awhile. I know they get cracked but let me have'em if you don't want them.

 

[wantitall4moi]

Obviously this is a no limit question.

A couple stances here.

In a tourny setting you very well might be all in with this hand early on trying to get the most for your money and get bad beat. Or not so bad beat depending.

But in a cash game, it is VERY EASY to lay down either of those hands. Especially on the flop if someone shows strength against you.

But there are other variables of course.

The thing about poker is, and anyone that is successful at it knows this, pojker is maybe 30-40% cards (even less that in cash games) and 60-70% knowing the people you are playing against. In cash games I would say is is more like 20/80. Simply because in tournies near the end with short stacks you are all in a lot and need cards to win.

All in is the most recreational play ever. The only time it should be done pre flop is if you have some action, have a decent hand and know it is your best chance to duble up.

That is why I love the people that learned how to play cards watching ESPN. You NEVER have to pay them off, they are ALL IN all the time. So fold and wait for them to do it when you have the goods on them. It evbentually happens.

I have been playing a lot lately. I busted about 15 people in one session, granted that was a 30 hour session, but I also folded a lot of winners I am sure. But why call a guy for 500 or a thousand or so IF you can't beat him? I would rather have the nuts, then lets him think I am a fold machine when someone goes all in to bluff me off a pot, and then get them that way.

If you "want to keep them honest" another sucker play, do it for 50/100. Most of them time you don't have to do it anyways someone else will do it for you.

But folding is easy to do if you can't win, or have a bad feeling. Of coourse if you are pot cmmitted then you have to.

But again, in a cash game you should never be pot commited with those hands. You want action.

But tournies and cash games are a whole different animal.

 

[primetime21+]

I have learned to fold AA or KK alot more often than i used to. I may do it too often these days. My feeling is that AA and KK are just a pair and depending on the situation holding just a pair is not that big of a deal. Depending on the flop and the amount of players in the hand, i will easily lay down AA if faced with enough pressure from a relatively tight player.

For example you hold AA and the flop is k-j-10. If you bet and get reraised, its pretty obvious that you are behind. Yes you could be up against AK, but is it worth your whole stack just to see if that guy ONLY had AK. Its alot more likely that you are beat on a flop like that.

 

[primetime21+]

Personally, i love playing small pocket pairs. you either make your set and take down a big pot, or fold with little damage if you miss your flop. I have made more money on PP with 44 and 55 than hands like aj, j-10 and other "decent" starting hands. THose AJ type hands get people into a ton of trouble.

 

[wantitall4moi]

Tried to edit but wouldn't let me.


If A-6-9 rainbow hits and you are holding KK, a check raise might be the best move, especially heads up. If the guy is holding A-rag he might rethink, especially if he only called your preflop raise. His hand really shrinks if he has nothing. If you come out with a bet and he has A/9 or lower he will call for sure. Then what do you do if he raises you on the turn? Then he is in charge, taking the lead doesn't always mean you are in control.

Again it all depends on the guy. Will he fold a weak ace, will he bluff you? Wil he call you all the way down? Canm he fold a winning hnd?

When you have the least amount of options the fewer cards you see the better. So KK with an ace on the board with some preflop action isn't always bad. Just a question of what you think the hand is worth, and that definately depends on who you are up aagainst.

 

[BlueWolf]

Had 2 callers pre-flop against my AA, and KKQ showed up in flop. One of them raised big, I had to fold.

Although I still think pocket aces is the best hand, I too prefer J-10 suited.

BlueWolf

 

[Dante]

I have learned to fold AA or KK alot more often than i used to. I may do it too often these days. My feeling is that AA and KK are just a pair and depending on the situation holding just a pair is not that big of a deal. Depending on the flop and the amount of players in the hand, i will easily lay down AA if faced with enough pressure from a relatively tight player.

For example you hold AA and the flop is k-j-10. If you bet and get reraised, its pretty obvious that you are behind. Yes you could be up against AK, but is it worth your whole stack just to see if that guy ONLY had AK. Its alot more likely that you are beat on a flop like that.

good stuff I think I need to learn to fold them MORE often ..

 

[tooran]

what is your favorite poker hole cards pre flop that you will always bet no matter what


mine is Q 8

I read this thread with great interest. One question: Dante, do you like Q-8 pre-flop because of some mathematical superiority of odds with that combo, or is it just a personal favorite of yours for no real reason? Just curious.

 

[Dante]

just a personal fav Toor...but if it has good math odds to hit something that is even better. I also have won more playing a few of these none SOLID hole cards to see the flop then just folding them all the time....8/9 and 9/10 are also ones ive been playing more often to

 

[ElmerTLee]

My two favorite hole cards AA, and I have no qualms tossing them if I think Im beat.

 

[tooran]

...8/9 and 9/10 are also ones ive been playing more often to

I'm with you. Any suited, consecutive cards makes me want to stay in. Lately, that hasn't been working for me at all, but I'm going to stick to my guns and continue to call those. Also, I love the 2-3 (suited or not), just because there's nothing better than seeing a flop with a 2 and/or 3 and knowing that probably no one else paired those up. Again, great thread, thanks!