I play a little online poker nothing big, and wouldn't even know how to figure it. But I do always see guy chatting about it. Like when the board pairs more often than it statistically should. Do poker sites use software that drives the rake?
Brought it up cause I was playing at WSOP right now, which is Nevada, and someone brought it up in the chat, and sure enough I started watching, and it did seem like the board was pairing up a lot. It's not really cheating cause no one's getting an edge, but it does make for bigger pots.
Hmm FTP? The same FTP that was caught in a world wide ponzi scheme where sponsored players/action holders were taking out "loans" from FTP bankroll that included present player balances with the total knowledge of their main CEO?
There is no proof that Pokerstars ever commited a major shank against their customers, doesn't mean they are not greedy enough, could mean they are super good to hide it. There is a lot of wacky shit going on everyday on online poker, if you multitable, it will only take you a couple of days to really witness some sick puppy shit.
Their explanation it's always due to seeing more hands and inexperienced players staying on the hand when they should have folded, blah blah. I have seen bad players, TERRIBLE players, that I have noted on my data winning SNG's and MTT's in a regular basis with a 100% losing game strategy, basically calling all in on the flop with one over and hitting, runner runner flushes and straights. KK vs 10-9: 2-5-Q -- 10 -- 9 and similar shit.
Also, the "illegal" use of automated poker bots (which are for sale just google it, and subsequential taint of the game), bots that are made to break even or play above average to rake and clear bonuses, etc. There are poker rooms that allow this. And if there is technology like this (I have tried a bot before, it works, just not as promised). There are certainly bots capable of deciding a best spot to pressure the algorithm of the RNG. I mean I guess there are bright folks working on stuff like this ALL THE TIME, HUGE potencial for massive profits.
I didn't say it wasn't possible, just it isn't done on a large scale IMO. I can't definitively prove that just like I can't definitively prove the superbowl isn't rigged. A lot of what you're seeing is a function of seeing tons of hands an hour.
People used to say online blackjack was rigged, I mean you're saying 250-300 hands an hour instead of 25, of course there are going to be more events that "stick out"
Also if you were gonna rig online poker, the play wouldn't be to make pots bigger. The play would be to help the fish win and the sharks lose so you can keep the ecosystem strong and the $ keeps rolling over. That is what you would want to do. Keep those fish in the game.
People used to say online blackjack was rigged, I mean you're saying 250-300 hands an hour instead of 25, of course there are going to be more events that "stick out"
Also if you were gonna rig online poker, the play wouldn't be to make pots bigger. The play would be to help the fish win and the sharks lose so you can keep the ecosystem strong and the $ keeps rolling over. That is what you would want to do. Keep those fish in the game.
+1. I get what you are saying.
Honestly, cant say anything about pokerstars since I dont play there for real $ since 2011 or so. But I basically witness a lot of frisky shit on medium-small sized rooms that leave you with a really, really bad taste.
It's funny when you are playing 6 tables and bad beats occur on 4 tables outta 6... not saying it happens all the time but its often. One thing I learned is to avoid flips as much as possible. Only try to push in with made hands, which sometimes get cracked runner runner style but its still possible to win and "beat the system".
Maybe I lost my faith in humans, but I don't trust the RNG bs.
I don't really buy that.
First off I don't think it would help traffic; at least not if you let the fish win long-term. You have to keep the sharks happy or they will take their business elsewhere, either because they suspect something is up or they just change sites because they feel your site is "unlucky". And the regs are the ones that keep traffic steady. Fish come and go. Best to let the ecosystem take care of itself.
Secondly, and more importantly, I think it is just too complicated of an algorithm to actually implement. It's not like it is as simple as a heads up table with one known shark and one known fish. At a full ring game you might have 3 fish, 2 regs, and 4 unknowns - with turnover of 1 seat every couple orbits (at LEAST). So who do you let win? You know how difficult it would be to stack the deck so that all the fish get their turn at winning while all the sharks are losing evenly? But it would have to be a slight edge, because otherwise it would be too obvious. How do you not cooler one fish against another? How do you predict what hands the players will play and what they will fold preflop? If you are letting the fish win and tilting it against the sharks, how do you even know who is a shark and who is a fish? It would get so convoluted, because at some point your "fish" are actually the long-term winners and the "sharks" are actually the long-term losers.
No way, even IF a site had the motive I think it would be WAY too difficult to even pull off for whatever minimal theoretical benefit there is to gain.
That would seriously be some crazy complicated software.
The sharks are still going to win, not like it is going to become a wash, just at a slightly slower pace.
Figuring out who is/isn't good at poker isn't that hard for a site. Especially over a large-sample.
I don't think big sites do it and I'm not even sure small sites do, I was just making the point that's what I would do if I were going to rig.
The purpose is to get players closer to EV than closer to EV+ or EV-. Create a steady balance for rake and players, sharks and fish alike, keep coming back, while the site rakes. Obviously there will be exceptions. But it could be a simple algorythm not something so advanced, simply a tendency to throw out more action pots and more coolers. In poker, every small chance, every small different actions creates a huge difference on the final outcome. This gets multiplied the more players enter a pot.
Yeah I know, that is what I was saying to HC. Obviously the elite players aren't going to just start breaking even, but if you chop a small amount of their edge off, it keeps the fish in the game longer and allows for further rollover. I have no clue if this happens on smaller sites (although for Pstars I have a pretty good idea it doesn't, 1 of my friends was 1 of the better midstakes cash game grinders on the site until its demise and he said it was much ado about nothing) But smaller sites are much more wild, wild west obviously.
