Dispute with Betmaker.com

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In September 2006 I went to my Betmaker.com account and found that my balance of $5400 had mysteriously been reduced to zero. I looked at the account history and discovered that the money had been transferred to their poker room and “lost”. I’ve never played poker on that site. Clearly, someone had broken into my account, transferred the money to poker, and dumped it all off to their own account or that of an accomplice. I called Betmaker to report the problem. At first I was dismissed (I guess they get a lot of these kind of complaints) but eventually I was transferred to the poker site management where I spoke to a supervisor named Juan. He took my complaint seriously and said he would immediately begin an investigation. Not quite, as it turns out.

I called back in a week and Juan said they were doing the investigation and would email me as soon as they knew anything. I called again next week and Juan told me the same story. Before hanging up, Juan began asking me for some of the details he would need to begin the case. It was clear he had done nothing and only now was intending to start any kind of an investigation. After another two months of my weekly telephone calls, Juan finally told me he had finished his investigation and it showed that the breach in security had definitely come from their end. He said unfortunately it was not up to him to decide how to proceed and that the matter would have to be kicked up to senior management. I told him I was relieved to hear this good news. Juan told me I could expect a resolution to this matter in just a few days. I asked him how many “a few” was. He said I should expect a response within three to five days. Juan sounded sincere. I was optimistic. I was an idiot.

I called Juan back in a week and was told that he had not heard back from “upper management” on the matter. I called again next week and was told the same story. This went on for some time. I frequently asked Juan why it was taking so long since his own investigation had showed that the breach ocurred on Betmaker’s end. He said, “These things take time”. Two and a half months went by since Juan had first told me that the leak ocurred on their end and we were just waiting for management’s “response”. I started to get the impression they were just going to stall indefinately, hoping I would just go away.

Finally, I called Juan on a Tuesday and he told me I would have an answer on Friday. Friday came and went with no word. On Saturday I emailed to inquire what was going on. Betmaker responded via email that they were not going to refund my money because they felt that the breach in security happened on my end and that they were not responsible. Incredulous, I called Juan to ask about his telling me repeatedly over the last two months that the breach occurred on their end. He said, "No, I told you it did NOT happen on our end". This was no mistake. This couldn’t be anything other than a lie. He didn’t tell me ONE time. I called back repeatedly and EACH time he confirmed that the leak was on THEIR end and that upper management would have to determine how they would proceed. This was no “misunderstanding”. This was a cover-up.

While I had Juan on the phone, he told me he had indisputable proof that the leak did not happen on their end but that I would have to come to Costa Rica to view the evidence. He was very mysterious. He said the evidence was not something that could be emailed. He said it couldn’t be mailed to me either. He even said the evidence was not something that could be described to me over the phone. Furious now, I immediately called this ridiculous bluff. I told the forum moderator at theprescription.com my situation. They have personnel in Costa Rica and volunteered to inquire on my behalf to view this so-called “evidence”. The inquiry was brushed off. No evidence was given by Betmaker of any kind. Betmaker only said that they felt it was not their fault and that somebody had gotten into my account at MY end and taken a “free” gamble with the money.

This claim is outlandish. Juan investigated the matter and said for months that the security breach happened at their end, not mine. All online poker sites everywhere have detailed hand histories of every single hand played. It would be simple to investigate how my money was “lost” and who it was “lost” to. Betmaker must know EXACTLY who stole my money (assuming they didn’t simply take it themselves). Betmaker jerked me around for several months and don’t appear to have made any attempt to follow the obvious money-trail behind the theft of my $5400. They have given absolutely no evidence to support their “feeling” that the security breach occurred on my end. In fact, I was told repeatedly by their representive, Juan, that his investigation determined that the breach was definitely on their end.

After Betmaker stole this money from me (or looked away while they allowed it to be stolen), I got worried because I also had a large sum of money at BetCRIS.com and they use the same software as Betmaker. I called BetCRIS customer support and requested that they block my account from being able to transfer funds to their poker room. Their rep said I didn’t need to worry because BetCRIS had never had any problems like that. Then, unsolicited, she talked about several instances of this type of incident happening at Betmaker.com.

I suspect that it was either Betmaker themselves, or somebody intimately associated with Betmaker that stole my money. They have lied repeatedly during the aftermath of this incident. They haven’t taken the first step of conducting any kind of investigation. They never even let me see the poker hand histories that show how my money was “lost” and who it was “lost” to.

They want me to just go away. I can’t do that. I can’t let them get away with stealing $5400 from me. I also don’t want any of my fellow gamblers to be swindled in similar fashion.

So be careful. Don’t do business with Betmaker.com. Because Betmaker.com stole $5400 from me and covered it up. Don’t let this happen to you.
 

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I told the forum moderator at theprescription.com my situation

which forum moderator did you speak to at TheRX.com?

although BetMaker.com is not a sponsor at the RX.com we can try to help, please email me your account number if you would like. Or let me know if you are working with someone else at TheRX.com

sportsavant@therx.com
 

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speedy said:

I will speak with Wilheim about this case tomorrow. Today is Wil's Day off.

I think sharing your story is an excellent idea, and you have presented it in a clear and concise fashion.....

personally, I would stay away from the word 'stealing' for now, simply because it may diminish any chances you have. I have edited the title for you. I realize that you dont want to suger coat anything, but what I have found in the past, is when terms like that get thrown on the forum, the book is often less willing to work with the customer.
 

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not sure how they run poker over there but, if possible, check hand history...see who got your money
 

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I appreciate your help Sportsavant. I used as much restraint as I possibly could in the hopes of getting this resolved for six months. While I would of course like to get my money back, since they never did any kind of investigation, it seems the only thing left is to warn others.
 

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The Rx. contacted Betmaker, Juan himself, and BetCRIS (including Scott) and was unable to get Betmaker to budge off of the ruling they made that there was nothing they would do. Speedy knows all this and at the end of the entire failed mediation I expressed regrets that I could not manage to get BetMaker to change the ruling. I still feel badly, the truth of the matter is some books are reluctant to repay debts lost to hackers, stolen or lost passwords, friends using players accounts without permission or knowledge of the actual account holder etc..

Personally from the several emails we exchanged (I think there was one phone call also) that Speedy really is victim to one form or another of internet thievery and I really do feel very badly I could not get his money for him.

Anyone else who feels they can obtain better results is free to try just send me your email address and a short note for Speedy and I will pass it along to him.

wilheim@therx.com


Thanks, wil..
 

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Wil,

What did Juan say when you asked him about this indisputable proof?

Did they say they did any kind of hand history investigation whatsoever?
 

AKA SCnit
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Great post. Sorry about your loss from those bastards. I would copy and paste your exact post on all forums (eog,sbr,fezzik,tow,major, etc) and bump every 2 weeks for a year.
 

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Betcris has assured me several time that they do not own Betmaker.
 

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Speedy I'd get in touch with the SBR guys about this. They might be able to help to.
 

AKA SCnit
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patswin said:
Speedy I'd get in touch with the SBR guys about this. They might be able to help to.

It could at least get them to lower Betmaker rating.

<TABLE class=m2 cellSpacing=3 cellPadding=3 width=700 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=nameColumn width=285> BetMaker</TD><TD class=ratingColumn width=120>B</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
 

AKA SCnit
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<TABLE borderColor=#ffffff cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 bgColor=#ffffff border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=mainbox>
8/17/2006 5:19:00 PM
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>BetCRIS (SBR rating A+) acquires BetMaker (SBR rating B)
Players will not notice a disruption in service. BetMaker has been hosted in the CRIS facility for over two years and uses the same sportsbook software.
 

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Thank you Patswin. That was a good idea Paterno. I just pasted it at Majorwager. I'm not sure who those other forums are but I'll find out now.
 

AKA SCnit
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speedy said:
Thank you Patswin. That was a good idea Paterno. I just pasted it at Majorwager. I'm not sure who those other forums are but I'll find out now.

Click Betmaker link in my thread above. If Mods delete, google sportsbookreview.
 

AKA SCnit
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speedy said:
Paterno,

Could you tell me how to find eog, fezzik and tow?

eog......com
lasvegasadvisor........com
theoffshorewire......com
 

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