David from Royal dispute

[IDENTITY]

omni frog - here's the way it works... player accuses book of manufacturing tapes and denies having made those bets. the burden now shifts to royal to disprove those allegations. playing the tapes is not sufficient because we do not know if the tapes are authentic. if this were to go to court, before royal could use the tapes, they would have to be authenticated. royal would not be allowed to use them unless the authenticity could be subject to cross-examination (i.e. a forensic expert to analyze the tapes). therefore, royal's argument fails, the tapes are meaningless, and a stiff has taken place.

to believe a stiff book is pretty amazing. thanks to all of those supporting the player here.

 

[EveryGamblersDream]

How blind are some of you? The player placed those bets & is angry because he lost them. He only placed them because he was slow payed. Royal is in the wrong for slow paying without question but they aren't in fault for someone losing on bets they placed.

This one is pretty clear. The guy is upset because he lost & then thought he could cop out of the losses by complaining about the slow pay.

 

[DarrylParsons]

Am I a nutcase or is Identity's posting style VERY similar to the Shrink's?

 

[IDENTITY]

lol, how did you guess it? i AM the SHRINK!!!!!

nice call, sir...



Best Wishes...ID:howdy:

 

[Number13]

It doesn't matter if Royal is a stiff or scam book. When they jerk players around and slow pay them they are giving them a big FU :finger: . I don't deal with establishments that treat their customers like that regardless of what business they are in... whether a sports book, retail store, or anything else.

 

[OMNIVOROUS FROG]

omni frog - here's the way it works... player accuses book of manufacturing tapes and denies having made those bets. the burden now shifts to royal to disprove those allegations. playing the tapes is not sufficient because we do not know if the tapes are authentic. if this were to go to court, before royal could use the tapes, they would have to be authenticated. royal would not be allowed to use them unless the authenticity could be subject to cross-examination (i.e. a forensic expert to analyze the tapes). therefore, royal's argument fails, the tapes are meaningless, and a stiff has taken place.

to believe a stiff book is pretty amazing. thanks to all of those supporting the player here.

Here's the way it works where? Disneyland or one of your fantasies? You contact book, say you did not bet, they let you here tape of yourself. They tell you to pound sand. You have been watching too much courtroom drama after American Idol. What burden is really on Royal? They say the tapes are legit, and refuse to pay. That could be end of story, if they want it that way. All the watchdogs could growl, rant and rave, and that is about it. Your key self destructive IF, If this were to go to court. Well honey, that I will make odds for.

Odds of this tape going to court and being cross examined:

yes 99.7-1
no 1-100

Small juice if you want some.

Best Wishes...OF:howdy:

This new ID has grown big and strong, and started in on the meat and potato subjects. It is not the whimpering what did I ever do to you?, or please God don't ban me version. Nice catch AP.

 

[TOW]

Froggie,

I have a question for you. Lets suppose Royal does not send the tapes and the player passes the lie detector..... would your current position remain unchanged ?

 

[EveryGamblersDream]

Anyone can beat a lie detector test.

 

[nana1908]

TOW, i like the way you answer questions, i think your right on in this case. From what i read i cant see it any different. I just want to thank you in that all the previous questions i asked, you answered them directly without accusing me of having an agenda. I am fairly new to the online forums and there alot of info i dont know or understand and you seem the best to me about telling people the truth.I am very curious as to how this story unfolds though.

 

[truthteller]

Anyone can beat a lie detector test.

And anyone can alter a tape.

 

[OMNIVOROUS FROG]

Froggie,

I have a question for you. Lets suppose Royal does not send the tapes and the player passes the lie detector..... would your current position remain unchanged ?

That is a very good question. Lie detectors are hardly even admissable in court any longer. To be honest, I think they should provide the tapes. I have never seen a dispute on a bet on tape go this far. So, I am baffled why Royal would not want to vindicate themselves for once. Probably backed wrong horse again. But the tapes were here, and I listened to them. That is the inexplicable part. You know, when I survey other sportsbook managers on Royal, the standard answer is, I have no idea what is going on over there. Out of all these crazy disputes, this one will probably not go away quietly. In short, the lie detector test does nothing for me, but with Royal's recent past, they should stand up, be counted and provide the tapes, or it is all going to be tej did it again. Some books just have to clear their own name. Royal is near the top. Good luck.

Best Wishes...oF:howdy:

 

[Ladeda]

I've been following this closely, maybe I'm misssing something and someone can help me out..


Royal posted promising to pay this guy his 20k!!!

Royal initially slow paid him, and they admitted it!!!

Now some are arguing that Royal made the agreement out of duress and they normally wouldn't have agreed to the deal. But guess what, if the player did indeed reverse the cashout and make those bets, he made that decision out of duress as well. He wouldn't normally have reversed it, that is a fact based on him having waited patiently for it for four weeks!! Anyone who doesn't consider being slow paid 20k and dealing with lie after lie from the sportsbook duress is an idiot.

So the duress arguement doesn't fly, Royal should pay the man as they stated, or am I missing something?

 

[OMNIVOROUS FROG]

I was held under the same slow pay duress, and never played again. Maybe the other part of the tape is a threat to play or wait longer, very good point. But they completely reversed course when tapes surfaced, now they can't even use those to clear themselves. Getting ugly. No, it is not duress being kept in the house. That is annoying at worst, but without a threat of nonpayment, the squeeze is not there.

Best Wishes...OF:howdy:

 

[EveryGamblersDream]

And anyone can alter a tape.

It is much easier to beat a test then to alter a tape good enough that it can't be detected.

We get the point, you are against Royal

 

[TONYMONTANA]

EVD, no one at Royal would take a LD test, so it doesn't matter. And Frog, so you heard some tape. You don't even know this guy nevermind his voice. I could make a tape tomorrow saying it was you it SO easy. The guy is obviously a stiff and Royal is obviously a book to stay away from, HISTORY doesn't lie or does it? We ALL were stiffs at one time.MAY'N!!

 

[kosar]

Roberto,

Polygraph my ass. What a bunch of goddamn posturing by you and the other clowns. You've changed the story so many times it's not even funny. First it wasn't his voice. Then it was his voice but the tapes were altered. Then it wasn't his voice. Then it was the more general , 'he didn't make the bets.' WTF is it?

What is the current stance of Team Agenda?

Is the players current story that it wasn't him on the tapes that major posted? That it wasn't his voice? That it was an imposter with his acct# and PW?

This is a very simple question, then we can go from there.

 

[TOW]

Kosar,

First of all thank you for your remarks. You know I appreciate your abrasiveness and I was somehow missing it lately.

I would hardly speak about agendas in this case. I'd like to draw your attention to the "nut" of the only public statement Royal has made in this situation:

"In a most recent incident a player was subjected to an undue delay for the final portions of payment of his account balance that prompted him to insist on having outstanding amounts returned to his account to be wagered at his discretion. This incident occurred decidedly at the players will, but only as a result of not receiving his funds in a timely manner, thereby forcing the client into a compromised decision. Royal Sports accepts FULL responsibility for this delay, and sees this incident as a regrettable loss of a valued client, and an unfortunate source of public derision. To this end Royal Sports, through the expert and dedicated help of Ken Weitzner, have agreed to settle this issue to the client’s full satisfaction by paying the balance amount against the original amount requested, which would not have been put in action and lost, had more timely payments been made."

The whole discussion that followed this statement was ignited by Russ, who candidly admits being in cahoots with Royal. This is the "nut" of his statement:

"Kens idea was to say he made a mistake and blame everything on Roberto. I happen to think there is more truth to that than meets the eye. After all , this started out as Pete/General coming here drunk in the middle of the night with Ken to make themselves look good. After that I don't think Ken really realized what he was getting into.

Royal agreed that they would not send the letter and that they would help Ken bury Roberto to make him look good. I also agreed to this because for the most part, this is Roberto's doing. It has been reported that at other venues. I actually in all fairness feel sorry for Ken here. I don't think he thought too hard about what he was doing. I actually would like to help Ken get himself so after speaking to Kevin called him on and told him that I had an idea of how he could get out of this mess in order to open up communications with him ( I didn't want to tell him that Kevin had told me the whole plan or he would have gone running back to the owners). Roberto is the person here that should be crucified IMO. He was the ring leader in this providing people false information amongst other things. Ken simply went along for the ride."

Admission / denial aside, Royal Sports has publicly stated they would have fully compensated the player for his losses which they acknowledged occured because of their slow pay tactics.

Ignoring this binding statement and diverting focus on the non relevant (per Royal's admission) item of the calls being genuine or not is most definitely agenda driven IMHO.

That being said I do believe that Royal should stand up and provide those famous taped recordings for analysis as they promised to.

 

[OMNIVOROUS FROG]

Yes, screw the polygraph, provide the tapes. This one is getting old. Nothing has changed. We heard the tapes, and they sounded legit. I have never, as in not once heard of a book altering or rigging tapes. If, and that is a huge if, that is the case, then Royal might as well be renamed tej's place. My position has not changed, if the tapes are legit, sorry player, no pay. If the tapes do not show up, we will be left with speculation. But after all of this, we got a new member, David1. You know what is strange? In my years and years of betting, maybe a hundred thousand phone bets, I have never needed to hear a playback. Not once.

Best Wishes...OF:howdy:

 

[kosar]

Admission / denial aside, Royal Sports has publicly stated they would have fully compensated the player for his losses which they acknowledged occured because of their slow pay tactics.

You ignored my simple question, but this part above is interesting.

Actually this 'occured' because the player made losing bets.

Royal sucks, but last time I checked there isn't a 20 dime penalty for slow-paying.

Why don't we just forget about the 'forensic audio experts' and the polygraph and all that other BS.

It boils down to a simple question: Is a book expected to forgive 20 dimes worth of losing bets because they were slow-playing?

That answer would be 'no.'

 

[OMNIVOROUS FROG]

I must admit Kosar, that is my thinking also. That is an awful high penalty. But on the flip side, the guy would have never lost anything had he been paid in a timely manner, as he should have been. What is worse is Royal writes an aoplogy letter, saying it is their fault he was slow payed, and in writing say they will pay him. Tapes or not. This is one of the nastiest cases I have followed, and now I am on the fence, where I was directly on Royal's side earlier. I think they should both be penalized, so take the 20K in question, and open an account for FROG.

Best Wishes...OF:howdy:


Mr. Parsons, sorry about the AP, you are David not Alan. Alan Parsons just seems to be projected in my mind of dying brain cells. DP.