Confiscating Bonuses - Rules are unfair to the Players

TheGeneral+ · Oct 21, 2003

Some books like to use a rule to keep bonus monies issued to players even if the player meets all rollover requirements.

The rule is simply "We reserve the right to revoke bonuses on professional players".

I think it is more like a way to keep the bonuses of winners. If I deposit 10 dimes today and get 20%, there is a chance I will win money and satisfy rollover rules. Just because I win does not mean I am a professional player.

And there is always the catch all "These bonuses and incentives are subject to change without notice."

C'mon Sportsbooks. If you do not want the winners atleast do them right and pay them in full & then boot or reduce limits.

By stating they are steam chasers, professionals, or somehow abusing your bonus because they win & stealing their money is an unethical approach.

I am all for loyalty to the books from players, but I cannot see not paying a player just because you assume he/she is a professional because they happen to win.

You tease them in with a nice bonus and then do not want to pay if they win.

If you want to play, then be willing to pay.

Thanks

Fishhead · Oct 21, 2003

Yes, this is not right. Good points General.

areeff · Oct 21, 2003

You think this is bad?

Online casinos will steal your DEPOSIT, BONUS and WINNINGS if they think you are a professional player or an educated gambler. The worst part about it is neurotic narcissistic attention whores like bryan bailey at www.casinomeister.com support this kind of crap and pretend to be "player advocates". Julie sidwell of gambling.com's gambling grumbles was the same way.

To give you an example. Let's say a sportsbook had a 10% bonus but it said "no parlays" (why they would do this is beyond the point but it happens in casinos) and you deposit 100.00 and get a 10.00 bonus and lay it all down on a 4 teamer for nfl and you win. Now they would have the right to void your winning 4 teamer because you got a 10.00 bonus and in that bonus it said no parlays if sportsbooks were like casinos. Some online casinos even say "no bingo". And if you play bingo even ONE CARD many online casinos will steal your deposit, winnings, AND bonus.

And it gets even worse!!!

Let's say an online casino sends you a promotional code but they dont say its new user only right up front but in some backdoor fine print its there. You claim the code and win several thousand dollars and they'll once again steal your deposit, bonus AND winnings even if the bonus is 10.00 they'll steal several thousand because you didn't follow some fine print rule.

And guess who agrees with all of this? Former gambling.com "player advocate" Julie Sidwell and another devil wearing a blue dress "player advocate" Bryan Bailey. These people are scum.

So thank goodness books are in far better shape than casinos. It's probably because it requires more solvency to be in business and it's less turnkey.

One last note. A sponsor here www.bodog.com was and probably still is using proven-rigged casino software provider GSS. GSS allows the operator to set table and poker games to payout a certain %, much like slots which is unquestionably immoral and even criminal. So the RX is complicit, possibly ignorantly in these criminal acts.

Chadster · Oct 21, 2003

if u deposit 10k you aren't recreational 9 times out of 10

areeff · Oct 21, 2003

Then why would any book take 10k deposits? It can't be that high. A good bookmaker does not care if anyone is pro or amateur they should be able to turn a tidy 1-2% profit by disciplined bookmaking.

lander · Oct 21, 2003

Jay,
I agree 100%, but the book needs to take responibility in a proactive manner NOT a retroactive/borderline-stealing manner.

For instance, Lay107 has a 10% bonus upto $200. Now the ametuers get their bonus & the professionals don't get away with highway robbery. I think they're doing a smart thing with this by only having a bonus on the 1st $2000 of deposits.

Chadster · Oct 21, 2003

I think all bonus money should be capped across the board at $500 thus deterring the bullshit that bonus money brings with it

Chadster · Oct 21, 2003

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by lander:
Jay,
I agree 100%, but the book needs to take responibility in a proactive manner NOT a retroactive/borderline-stealing manner.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Agreed

TheGeneral+ · Oct 21, 2003

I see the point too, but the 1 person that gets the shaft is not good. If one person gets ripped of because of perception, then we need to revisit the problem/rule.

RDC · Oct 21, 2003

I could not agree more. Last Spring I was given the boot as you may recall from a book that after 3 weeks of playing there told me to leave. I had no problem with that but they wanted to take my 1800 bonus. Granted I was still a couple dimes away from rolling the account but thats because they wouldnt take any more of my action. However they did end up giving me half of it after speaking to the manager. But still it was an experienec I will never forget.

jdjohn · Oct 21, 2003

On another thread topic titled Any Books offering 20%+?, I referred to this thread and asked for comment from Justin at BeverlyHillsBookie.com. It has been several hours, and no comment. He was jumping right in about the bonuses they were offering, but nothing to offer on this subject.

Java · Oct 21, 2003

This is why the books should get rid of the bonus programs completely and just go with low vig. The bonus becomes subjective, but with low vig, the results are objective. There isn't any more interpretation beyond the usual (wager limits, past posting, etc.).

As for the General's original question, I agree with Jay Leno. 10 dimes is a pretty good indication of a professional.

That said and going with my no-bonus philosophy, a "pro" player can be kicked out or have a less advantageous vig. This would still entitle the pro player to all the vig/winnings up until the time he was "tagged" as a "pro". At that point, the book can alter his vig for any future wagers.

htudor · Oct 21, 2003

I play 20 offshore stores I need the bonus to pay for the Camelots,Dunes , and Aces Gold- with out bonuses I would just play credit shops--I play so many games (you would think that with all this action )just once a sportsbook would want me to win a game.If they need my side to win money--and we win together(take away bonus).

BillDozer · Oct 21, 2003

If your a pro you know better than to deposit 10k at Joe's and you would talk to a manager before about protecting your investment.
MOst 20% bonuses cap out on 1k post up and others that go over as a WWTS would would not confiscate from you. So what books are we talking about that have these rules?? Im not argueing I just wanna know which book so I have a heads up.

nets2k2 · Oct 21, 2003

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jay Leno:
if u deposit 10k you aren't recreational 9 times out of 10<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thats not true at all. There are MANY people who are big bettors and are square as you can get and to them a 10k deposit is like you posting up $100. Its all relative.
Whats big to you is not always big to others. I wouldnt even say 6/10 is accurate.

PatrickMcIrish · Oct 22, 2003

I agree with General here. It pisses me off for books to offer up deals to get you to play and then portray you as a pro in order to keep your bonus later. Maybe we should make a list of books who resort to this tactic on a regular basis.

Just because someone wins at your shop does not make them a "pro".

DarrylParsons · Oct 22, 2003

Right on, General

I think we need about 200 people to take over some island in the south Pacific, create our own country in which there are fair regulations for sports betting. Bookmakers would be allowed to operate with no tax and liberal conditions provided there is no scamming. Posting forums like the Rx will be used as a major tool to resolve disputes and violators will be swiftly put out of business.

Eventually our population would explode and we would host 50% of the world's bookmaking. Of course once we start doing really really well, some of the big superpowers will threaten us, but we should be able to develop nuclear capabilities by then and develop strategic alliances with China, both Koreas and Indonesia, so let the attacker beware.

Who's with me on this one?

PatrickMcIrish · Oct 22, 2003

Other than the political stuff I'm with you. Just want to get a bet down is all.

TwoCard · Oct 22, 2003

If the bonuses did not exist I would rarely try a new place to wager.

Just play at the real solid two or three books.

Krogers' offers coupons for the same reason - get people in the door.

PatrickMcIrish · Oct 22, 2003

I'm not so much against a book offering a resonable bonus as I am them rescending it when the player winds up winning a little bit. Some of the criteria books use to do this is getting out of hand and needs to be watched.