don't you guys think in light of whats been happening it would be a good idea if all you guys did something for the blue marlin players here. working together you can save costa rica's reputation becasue right now it isn't working, how are players suppose to know which books that are forum advertisers to send money to if 2 of them have already stolen from us
Awesome,
I feel bad for anyone that lost money in BM (I lost a miniscule amount myself), but it's not fair to put the burden on Hollywood and other reputable shops.
When Enron went down did Con-Ed have to pick up the tab and pay back those stole 401Ks?
No, of course not. We made the choice NOT to play with better shops and got burned for it.
I feel bad for anyone that lost money in BM (I lost a miniscule amount myself), but it's not fair to put the burden on Hollywood and other reputable shops.
When Enron went down did Con-Ed have to pick up the tab and pay back those stole 401Ks?
No, of course not. We made the choice NOT to play with better shops and got burned for it.
lander i respectfully disagree. suppose a casino in vegas right now went bellup and on monday and dind't pay their open sports betteing tickets and nothing was done about it ...it would hurt vegas as a whole. in the nba if a team goes broke and cant play its schedule it hurts the league. if costa rican books are falling apart left and right and the other books stand idly nby what message does that send ,,,, how many people right now are getting theri money out of there im sure it would cost a lot less in the long run if they niped this thing in the bud right now.....unless their non really worried about the long run makes you wonder
Awesome,
Good point. This is the only reason I don't play with books like Hollywood and Cascade in CR. They have let these rogue books get away with murder and don't do anything about it.
Lander, that analogy to Enron doesn't work. Some of those Enron people will be spending time with Bubba while these thieves offshore go on with their lives.
Good point. This is the only reason I don't play with books like Hollywood and Cascade in CR. They have let these rogue books get away with murder and don't do anything about it.
Lander, that analogy to Enron doesn't work. Some of those Enron people will be spending time with Bubba while these thieves offshore go on with their lives.
thats right intuition forget about even making money on the new players they would have , how about the money they would make by stoping the panic thats's now taking place ...... for every jazz or myself thats vowing to get my money out of these places how many others are there who are just scared shitless right now are not re-upping with books and withdrawing
like it's 1929 part of the reason why people keep money in banks is the knowledge that if it goes under it may be a pain in the ass but you'l;l get your money back.... right now until some precedent is set with posting forum books that others will help if one folds
your money is safe virtually nowhere.
like it's 1929 part of the reason why people keep money in banks is the knowledge that if it goes under it may be a pain in the ass but you'l;l get your money back.... right now until some precedent is set with posting forum books that others will help if one folds
your money is safe virtually nowhere.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by truthteller:
Lander, that analogy to Enron doesn't work. Some of those Enron people will be spending time with Bubba while these thieves offshore go on with their lives.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
That's an excellent point, but I think this comes with strict regulation. In other words, the Costa Rican governement should hold it's businesses responsible, but that is not Holly's job.
Hollywood's sole job is to run a quality shop, not babysit every guy that wants to make a quick buck - this is something they have continued to do extremely well for years.
Lander, that analogy to Enron doesn't work. Some of those Enron people will be spending time with Bubba while these thieves offshore go on with their lives.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
That's an excellent point, but I think this comes with strict regulation. In other words, the Costa Rican governement should hold it's businesses responsible, but that is not Holly's job.
Hollywood's sole job is to run a quality shop, not babysit every guy that wants to make a quick buck - this is something they have continued to do extremely well for years.
lander i don't mean to pick on hollywood just using them as an example of a well respected CR book, I would not be speaking if BM was not a boook endorsed by all the forums if it was some place nobody never heard of i would say holly or other quality forum books shouldn't care but if other well respected CR forum books do nothing to rescue a CR forum book that goes down ... It ruins the value of CR forum books as a whole.
Everyone here has a good point - but, it's irrelevant, because the books that are in CR are in there for the reason it IS unregulated and they AREN'T interested in the problems of the industry at whole, just their own problems. Right or wrong, that's the way it is, and all of the typing of good and great ideas isn't going to do anything about it, except give all of us repetitive stress syndrome and end up with arthritis in our old age - lol.
Ideas are great, but there will never be the slightest interest by the individual warloads to open up their fiefdoms to anything other than the way it is now. IMHO.
Ideas are great, but there will never be the slightest interest by the individual warloads to open up their fiefdoms to anything other than the way it is now. IMHO.
I hate to be in the position where I have to disagree with mostly everything that has been said here (Lander for a change has made a good post...
).
I got one question for you guys:
Why would it be the RESPONSIBILITY of a tighly run book to absorb the liabilities of a failed competitor? Liabilities that were acquired through EXHUBERANT bonus offers to begin with. Why do people think it's somebody else's responsibility to assume the consequences of their mistakes?
Let me present 2 different business models:
A) CRIS, Hollywood and Cascade run a very cost efficient operation. They CHOOSE not to go crazy on bonus programs. They choose to post original lines, they choose to pay winners every time, they choose to NOT boot winners, but to book them.
It takes ENORMOUS amounts of work, perseverance and discipline to build a shop like that. Years of effort and commitment, sound management of enormous amounts of cash, the same cash that DOES NOT grow in the fields, but that is the product of hard work.
B) Other books choose to run different business models. Higher bonuses, smaller amounts of money invested in alternative forms of marketing campaigns. Less investement in the creation of lines and updated information on sports events.
So the players in these forums are presented with 2 options: A or B.
As adults we all are, we are free to choose. But as adults we are, we must LEARN TO DEAL WITH THE CONSEQUENCES OF OUR ACTS.
awesome baby:
Did Hollywood or Cascade or CRIS ask you to send your hard-earned cash to Blue Marlin? Did they ask you to not send them the cash and send it to a shop that was competing with them?
No, they didn't. Why would they be responsible to bail you out, when it was you and you alone who made a choice to not play with Hollywood, but with Blue Marlin? I'll tell you what, in the world of money, you're the only one responisble of choosing in which ways and in which places you invest your money.
TruthTeller:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Good point. This is the only reason I don't play with books like Hollywood and Cascade in CR. They have let these rogue books get away with murder and don't do anything about it.
Lander, that analogy to Enron doesn't work. Some of those Enron people will be spending time with Bubba while these thieves offshore go on with their lives. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Who are Hollywood, Cascade or CRIS to police other bookmakers? Why should they? These shops are her to make money and they are honorable men with ethics of hard work and honesty.
You have said this (^) regarding Hollywood in the past. If they step up for a bailout or not, is simply going to be a business decision. If it's not good business, then they won't and they shouldn't be bashed becasue of it. Will you blemae them for not conducting bad business?
Of all people and after the Royal-Sting-GA situation, I thought you would've known better. Blue Marlin is the result of another forum-movers model gone sour. If Hollywood or anybody else steps up to bail out the less than 50 square active guys (they have quoted 250 active accounts, but out of those 250 accounts, 200 are sharp guys, bonus whores like Sick and other angle shooters that ARE already part of many shrap books' database anyway) and they bail the square guys only, then the forums will scream to the world how unfair the book is being by not absorbing all the rest of the movers and angle shooters. What's there positive about bailing out BM? Being the "saviour"? Business men are here to make business, not to save the world.
Intuition Bet:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>The books in CR will all benefit if they support each other in any way they can with this BM situation.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I agree 100%. But I think these shops are nobody to reverse this darwinism process. They're simply the fittest ones, the ones that survive and they did it through hard work and a sustained effort.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>And in the long run they may be increasing their customer base by absorbing these players, which may be profitable in the future.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
As I have already posted, half of that data base already plays with the other shops. The other half is composed by angle shooters and bonus whores. Who would like to have Sick playing with them after the RIO situation? Why don't books like BO-DOG step up? They're the ultimate BOOKMAKERS according to various RX authorities.
I got one question for you guys:
Why would it be the RESPONSIBILITY of a tighly run book to absorb the liabilities of a failed competitor? Liabilities that were acquired through EXHUBERANT bonus offers to begin with. Why do people think it's somebody else's responsibility to assume the consequences of their mistakes?
Let me present 2 different business models:
A) CRIS, Hollywood and Cascade run a very cost efficient operation. They CHOOSE not to go crazy on bonus programs. They choose to post original lines, they choose to pay winners every time, they choose to NOT boot winners, but to book them.
It takes ENORMOUS amounts of work, perseverance and discipline to build a shop like that. Years of effort and commitment, sound management of enormous amounts of cash, the same cash that DOES NOT grow in the fields, but that is the product of hard work.
B) Other books choose to run different business models. Higher bonuses, smaller amounts of money invested in alternative forms of marketing campaigns. Less investement in the creation of lines and updated information on sports events.
So the players in these forums are presented with 2 options: A or B.
As adults we all are, we are free to choose. But as adults we are, we must LEARN TO DEAL WITH THE CONSEQUENCES OF OUR ACTS.
awesome baby:
Did Hollywood or Cascade or CRIS ask you to send your hard-earned cash to Blue Marlin? Did they ask you to not send them the cash and send it to a shop that was competing with them?
No, they didn't. Why would they be responsible to bail you out, when it was you and you alone who made a choice to not play with Hollywood, but with Blue Marlin? I'll tell you what, in the world of money, you're the only one responisble of choosing in which ways and in which places you invest your money.
TruthTeller:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Good point. This is the only reason I don't play with books like Hollywood and Cascade in CR. They have let these rogue books get away with murder and don't do anything about it.
Lander, that analogy to Enron doesn't work. Some of those Enron people will be spending time with Bubba while these thieves offshore go on with their lives. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Who are Hollywood, Cascade or CRIS to police other bookmakers? Why should they? These shops are her to make money and they are honorable men with ethics of hard work and honesty.
You have said this (^) regarding Hollywood in the past. If they step up for a bailout or not, is simply going to be a business decision. If it's not good business, then they won't and they shouldn't be bashed becasue of it. Will you blemae them for not conducting bad business?
Of all people and after the Royal-Sting-GA situation, I thought you would've known better. Blue Marlin is the result of another forum-movers model gone sour. If Hollywood or anybody else steps up to bail out the less than 50 square active guys (they have quoted 250 active accounts, but out of those 250 accounts, 200 are sharp guys, bonus whores like Sick and other angle shooters that ARE already part of many shrap books' database anyway) and they bail the square guys only, then the forums will scream to the world how unfair the book is being by not absorbing all the rest of the movers and angle shooters. What's there positive about bailing out BM? Being the "saviour"? Business men are here to make business, not to save the world.
Intuition Bet:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>The books in CR will all benefit if they support each other in any way they can with this BM situation.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I agree 100%. But I think these shops are nobody to reverse this darwinism process. They're simply the fittest ones, the ones that survive and they did it through hard work and a sustained effort.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>And in the long run they may be increasing their customer base by absorbing these players, which may be profitable in the future.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
As I have already posted, half of that data base already plays with the other shops. The other half is composed by angle shooters and bonus whores. Who would like to have Sick playing with them after the RIO situation? Why don't books like BO-DOG step up? They're the ultimate BOOKMAKERS according to various RX authorities.
walk of life -----fact blue marlin was a book touted by the shrink and major wager as safe by virtue of them being here ....please walk of life what more confidense could a player have in hollywood rather than blue marlin both had exellent history of paying their players both have a presense on the forums what more are players supposed to do we cant see these guys faces much less their bank statements so if its just buyer beware fine but youv'e got to be sick to play in almost any costa rican book right now
Walk of Life - I agree with what you are saying. Who is to say what book should step forward to help and why should someone clean up someone else's mess?
But the bottom line here is Regulation. The Costa Rican gov't is BRAINdead when it comes to policy for the sportsbook industry there.
Right now it's the Old Wild Wild West over there and anybody can open up for business.
If the C.R. gov't is going to keep sitting on their hands then the bigger sportsbooks need to form a Consortium that implements Guidlines for members to follow.
Books that don't follow these guidlines will not be part of the Consortium and will be frowned upon from doing business with, and players may shy away from these rogue books.
The above is a simple solution but it's success is only as strong as the number of books that join the Consortium.
But my opinion is that if nothing is done in Costa Rica to regulate etc. the larger and more reputable books may migrate next door to Panama to separate them from the rogue/scam books that are polluting the pond water that they are all sitting in right now.
But the bottom line here is Regulation. The Costa Rican gov't is BRAINdead when it comes to policy for the sportsbook industry there.
Right now it's the Old Wild Wild West over there and anybody can open up for business.
If the C.R. gov't is going to keep sitting on their hands then the bigger sportsbooks need to form a Consortium that implements Guidlines for members to follow.
Books that don't follow these guidlines will not be part of the Consortium and will be frowned upon from doing business with, and players may shy away from these rogue books.
The above is a simple solution but it's success is only as strong as the number of books that join the Consortium.
But my opinion is that if nothing is done in Costa Rica to regulate etc. the larger and more reputable books may migrate next door to Panama to separate them from the rogue/scam books that are polluting the pond water that they are all sitting in right now.
Jazz:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Everyone here has a good point - but, it's irrelevant, because the books that are in CR are in there for the reason it IS unregulated and they AREN'T interested in the problems of the industry at whole, just their own problems. Right or wrong, that's the way it is, and all of the typing of good and great ideas isn't going to do anything about it, except give all of us repetitive stress syndrome and end up with arthritis in our old age - lol. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I think very highly of you as a poster. I think you're usually very rational and consequent with your posts. And that's why I would like to discuss a couple of points made by you in this and in other threads.
..."it's irrelevant, because the books that are in CR are in there for the reason it IS unregulated and they AREN'T interested in the problems of the industry at whole, just their own problems. Right or wrong, that's the way it is"...
That my man is an assumption at best. What facts do you have to back up that statement? The fact that they won't bail out BM? Why should they? Did anybody put a gun to the head of those that chose to play at Blue Marlin, in order to take advantage of the big bonuses?
Blue Marlin, Jazz, was the product of another hype-campaign. (BTW, where's Eric?) If you take a look at the players data base, it'll be painfully obvious that it's mostly composed by movers, wise guys, syndicate players, bonus whores, angle shooters, etc.
Who recommended Blue marlin to the few square guys that actually placed bets there? Who made the most benefit of having squares playing there?
Where's all the post-up money? Over half a million in liabilities and reggie claims he was left with 25K? Where did the cash go?
Maybe you belive JJ and you'll say blow and whores, but you know better. 500K don't just disappear.
However, I agree with you: this whole process has a name: DARWINISM or PROGRESSIVE CAPITALISM if you wish. Why should the survivors be ashamed of having made it?
For a person of your vision, you're being short-sighted. The solid books ARE INDEED looking for viable solution to assure the players that the reputation they have gained and the position where they are, is in no way the consequence of a fortitious process. Wil they come to the forums to achieve that guarantee? No, they won't.
Once the consolidation process is over and the solutions (audited accounts in ESCROW perhaps) have been attained, the environment in these unregulated legislations should change. Maybe then you will reconsider your position regarding the solid offshore shops. Until then, your pesimism is your flagship and the saddest part of it all, it's that you're a respected poster.
I think you're judging to soon. The last part of this Darwinism process will definitly include REGULATION for those who survive. It's a historical process, you can find similarities in other industries.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Everyone here has a good point - but, it's irrelevant, because the books that are in CR are in there for the reason it IS unregulated and they AREN'T interested in the problems of the industry at whole, just their own problems. Right or wrong, that's the way it is, and all of the typing of good and great ideas isn't going to do anything about it, except give all of us repetitive stress syndrome and end up with arthritis in our old age - lol. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I think very highly of you as a poster. I think you're usually very rational and consequent with your posts. And that's why I would like to discuss a couple of points made by you in this and in other threads.
..."it's irrelevant, because the books that are in CR are in there for the reason it IS unregulated and they AREN'T interested in the problems of the industry at whole, just their own problems. Right or wrong, that's the way it is"...
That my man is an assumption at best. What facts do you have to back up that statement? The fact that they won't bail out BM? Why should they? Did anybody put a gun to the head of those that chose to play at Blue Marlin, in order to take advantage of the big bonuses?
Blue Marlin, Jazz, was the product of another hype-campaign. (BTW, where's Eric?) If you take a look at the players data base, it'll be painfully obvious that it's mostly composed by movers, wise guys, syndicate players, bonus whores, angle shooters, etc.
Who recommended Blue marlin to the few square guys that actually placed bets there? Who made the most benefit of having squares playing there?
Where's all the post-up money? Over half a million in liabilities and reggie claims he was left with 25K? Where did the cash go?
Maybe you belive JJ and you'll say blow and whores, but you know better. 500K don't just disappear.
However, I agree with you: this whole process has a name: DARWINISM or PROGRESSIVE CAPITALISM if you wish. Why should the survivors be ashamed of having made it?
For a person of your vision, you're being short-sighted. The solid books ARE INDEED looking for viable solution to assure the players that the reputation they have gained and the position where they are, is in no way the consequence of a fortitious process. Wil they come to the forums to achieve that guarantee? No, they won't.
Once the consolidation process is over and the solutions (audited accounts in ESCROW perhaps) have been attained, the environment in these unregulated legislations should change. Maybe then you will reconsider your position regarding the solid offshore shops. Until then, your pesimism is your flagship and the saddest part of it all, it's that you're a respected poster.
I think you're judging to soon. The last part of this Darwinism process will definitly include REGULATION for those who survive. It's a historical process, you can find similarities in other industries.
Intuition Bet, we finally agree my man.
...."But the bottom line here is Regulation. The Costa Rican gov't is BRAINdead when it comes to policy for the sportsbook industry there. "...
Right on the money.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>If the C.R. gov't is going to keep sitting on their hands then the bigger sportsbooks need to form a Consortium that implements Guidlines for members to follow.
Books that don't follow these guidlines will not be part of the Consortium and will be frowned upon from doing business with, and players may shy away from these rogue books.
The above is a simple solution but it's success is only as strong as the number of books that join the Consortium.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
This CONSORTIUM's an excellent idea and a very viable solution. I would only like to add that just because the parts affected have not been vocal about the solutions being architected, it does NOT mean that NOTHING is being done. And idea like the one you proposed is being discussed.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>But my opinion is that if nothing is done in Costa Rica to regulate etc. the larger and more reputable books may migrate next door to Panama to separate them from the rogue/scam books that are polluting the pond water that they are all sitting in right now.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Panama always comes to mind as a way of hedging the risks of operating offshore. The government down there has a good idea of how things can be done, but there are huge holes in their proposal for interested sportsbooks (credit biz, for example). I do not think there's a solution as simple as just moving from one jurisdiction to another. There's no "panaceas" for this situation.
Awesome baby:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>fact blue marlin was a book touted by the shrink and major wager as safe by virtue of them being here ....please walk of life what more confidense could a player have in hollywood rather than blue marlin both had exellent history of paying their players both have a presense on the forums what more are players supposed to do we cant see these guys faces much less their bank statements so if its just buyer beware fine but youv'e got to be sick to play in almost any costa rican book right now <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
The way in which a watchdog site chooses its sponsors is not responsibility of anybody else, but the owners themselves. As for the rest of your post, the fact that you didn't research enough before sending your money to Blue Marlin, DOES NOT mean that Hollywood (or any other big shop) has the obligation to bail you out. Ignorance is not an excuse, man.
...."But the bottom line here is Regulation. The Costa Rican gov't is BRAINdead when it comes to policy for the sportsbook industry there. "...
Right on the money.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>If the C.R. gov't is going to keep sitting on their hands then the bigger sportsbooks need to form a Consortium that implements Guidlines for members to follow.
Books that don't follow these guidlines will not be part of the Consortium and will be frowned upon from doing business with, and players may shy away from these rogue books.
The above is a simple solution but it's success is only as strong as the number of books that join the Consortium.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
This CONSORTIUM's an excellent idea and a very viable solution. I would only like to add that just because the parts affected have not been vocal about the solutions being architected, it does NOT mean that NOTHING is being done. And idea like the one you proposed is being discussed.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>But my opinion is that if nothing is done in Costa Rica to regulate etc. the larger and more reputable books may migrate next door to Panama to separate them from the rogue/scam books that are polluting the pond water that they are all sitting in right now.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Panama always comes to mind as a way of hedging the risks of operating offshore. The government down there has a good idea of how things can be done, but there are huge holes in their proposal for interested sportsbooks (credit biz, for example). I do not think there's a solution as simple as just moving from one jurisdiction to another. There's no "panaceas" for this situation.
Awesome baby:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>fact blue marlin was a book touted by the shrink and major wager as safe by virtue of them being here ....please walk of life what more confidense could a player have in hollywood rather than blue marlin both had exellent history of paying their players both have a presense on the forums what more are players supposed to do we cant see these guys faces much less their bank statements so if its just buyer beware fine but youv'e got to be sick to play in almost any costa rican book right now <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
The way in which a watchdog site chooses its sponsors is not responsibility of anybody else, but the owners themselves. As for the rest of your post, the fact that you didn't research enough before sending your money to Blue Marlin, DOES NOT mean that Hollywood (or any other big shop) has the obligation to bail you out. Ignorance is not an excuse, man.
