Takes a real man to provoke a fight...get your ass kicked and reach for your gun. Biggest pussy move of all time. That's what wannabe cops do...act all big and bad...start shit...get their ass kicked and run for their guns. Zimmerman picked the wrong guy because he thought he was the big toughguy....until he started getting his ass handed to him by a teenager. That's why guys like zimmerman need to carry...nothin but a pussy.
Takes a real man to provoke a fight...get your ass kicked and reach for your gun. Biggest pussy move of all time. That's what wannabe cops do...act all big and bad...start shit...get their ass kicked and run for their guns. Zimmerman picked the wrong guy because he thought he was the big toughguy....until he started getting his ass handed to him by a teenager. That's why guys like zimmerman need to carry...nothin but a pussy.
Pretty harsh, don't ya think? No one really knows what happened, even if the kid was a punk ass, 17 year old thug, he didn't deserve to die. I did some really stupid shit long before, and long after I was 17 years old, this could have happened to me, and probably any one of us in here. He was in the wrong place at the wrong time.
Calling him a "piece of shit", "got what he deserved" and "may he not rest in piece"(sic) in post #461 sounds pretty cold to me dude.
Pretty cold as well to call Zimmerman a piece of shit (not you), thug and that he deserves to rot in hell even if he was providing a community service.
I don't feel sorry for these guys that get arrested multiple times and think they can just assault people whenever they want. I don't feel sympathy for him at all. He had to pay the price for making a very bad decision.
It's also possible Martin was grabbing for Zimmerman's gun. It's also possible Zimmerman was walking back to his SUV and was attacked from behind. It's also possible LBJ shot JFK.
The evidence, authorities and situation all point to an unprovoked attack by Martin on Zimmerman. That is what the jury will see I believe.
I have no idea because I was not there and refuse to speculate as to what happened. I do know that Martin had a bruised eye so at some point he must have been struck by someone or something. Maybe it happened while they were on the ground and maybe it didn't. But I am certainly not going to think something happened when I don't know.
The discovery is now public, discovery is just that, everything, the good, the bad, and the ugly that has been 'discovered' by investigators, detectives, agents, etc. etc. etc.
I have read the discovery, I have read everything the courts have now, discovery, statements, autopsy, *everything*
If you haven't read everything, than don't speculate, do your homework, or don't post speculation as facts, it'll only make you ignorant.
I know you tree hugging bleeding heart liberals *want* to happen, you want George Zimmerman strung up by his balls until he dies, but what you *want* to happen, is not *going* to happen.
Once again, the prosecution overcharged, the prosecution bowed to the Rev. Al types, the Black Panther types, if the prosecution took a deep breath, a day or two to ponder everything, if the prosecution proceeded with a manslaughter charge instead of a *second degree murder charge* they would have a punchers (pardon the pun) chance of getting that conviction, the prosecution will never get a second degree murder conviction.
(look up the definition) Zimmerman did not set out to kill Martin (I am basing that on everything that is in), second degree murder is intentional murder.
All the evidence in the discovery is pointing to a non intentional killing.
FACT: It was Zimmerman, not Martin yelling for help multiple times, not Martin screaming for help as reported initially by the media.
FACT: Zimmerman was on the bottom. Trayvon was on top. Zimmerman's head was being banged on the ground.
Forensics proves this. It's going to be easy to prove to a jury that Zimmerman felt his life was in danger at this time. Also there was THC in Martin's system. That is in the reports. Now some of you are going to argue that THC is not angel dust, not so, the two most common aliases for PCP over the years have been "angel dust" and "THC."
FACT: 911 operators are not authority figures, they can not give a lawful directive, they can not give lawful commands, they are pretty much telephone operators that escalate problems to first responders. (fire, police, ambulance......) they dispense advice, advice that has no clout, all they can do is advise. Now, ignoring the advice is sometimes not the brightest thing to do, and if stupidity was a crime, Martin, Zimmerman, and 75 percent of the posters here would stand trial, but since stupidity is not a crime, Zimmerman did not violate any laws by not heeding 911 advice.
FACT: Zimmerman has a license to carry a conceal a firearm. He did not violate any gun laws.
FACT: Stand your ground laws in Florida state you can you deadly force if you feel your life is in jeopardy.
Stand your ground states you don't have to retreat if you home is invaded, you don't have to retreat if you feel your life is in danger.
A defendant, under Florida law, loses his “stand your ground” defense if he provoked the encounter — but he retains traditional self-defense if he reasonably believed his life was in danger and his only recourse was to employ deadly force.
Thus, if Zimmerman verbally provoked Martin, (which the state can't prove and won't be able to) but Martin then got on top of Zimmerman and banged his head into the ground, broke his nose, bloodied his eyes and persisted in attacking Zimmerman — and if Zimmerman couldn’t protect himself from further attack except by shooting Martin (which Zimmerman can probably prove) — he would have the right to do that.
A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force or herself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.
Now, all the witnesses have filed their reports, there are no more witnesses, no more statements to follow, that's it, everything is in, nobody is on record as to stating how the fight started, the only two people that know the genesis of this altercation are Martin and Zimmerman, and of those two can't speak. For the state (prosecution) to prove *second degree* murder, they have to prove Zimmerman not only provoked the fight, but also intentionally killed him.
FACT: The media is reporting that the gun shot was from 'intermediate range'
FACT: The gun barrel was touching the sweatshirt when the gun was fired (it's in there, read the evidence)
When is the media going to learn they aren't helping matters by misreporting, well most everything in this case.
Editing 911 calls, going out of their way not to show Zimmerman's wounds...... bending, twisting, speculating, going out of their way to make Martin the villan.
When the race riots break out, and it's inevitable, there are already black activist groups assembled down there in Florida as well as white supremacist groups. Did any of you see the sound bite yesterday by one of the skin heads "our white brothers are in danger down there, we are here to back them up"
The media is going to be held largely accountable for those riots if they do break out.
This is probably what the defense (team Zimmerman) will argue.
Zimmerman called 911 to report a suscipious person at Retreat at Twin Lakes in Sanford where he was the neighborhood watch authority at that gated community. The state (prosecution) will probably ask "why did you think he was suspicious", Zimmerman will probably respond "that the person was wandering around the community and was wearing a hooded sweatshirt that concealed his identity"...... the state will ask Zimmerman "did you start the altercation" Zimmerman will probably respond "no, I just questioned Martin as to why he was here...... then all hell broke loose, next thing you know Martin is on top of me, banging my head on the ground, punching me....."
It's up to the state to prove Zimmerman started the altercation, it's not up to the defense to prove he didn't.
One more thing, a HS buddy of mine, who's now a trial lawyer himself said it best the other day, he said "Billy, think of like this, Zimmermans defense team is like a professional baseball club, The prosecution (state) is like a bunch of rag tag little leaguers in comparison."
Just look at special prosecutor Angela Corey.
She purposely held back those pictures of Zimmerman.
From the beginning the prosecution knew Zimmerman had bruises on the back of his head. She submitted false affidavits and generated the media frenzy.
She has a history of reckless aggression in the courts.
I guess Corey could argue character, that Zimmerman has a misdemeanor or two, that he takes prescription anxiety medicine, but the defense can counter that this isn't the 14 yea
Read the statements, the autoposy, the evidence, it's the same material all the attorneys have.
After doing so, if you still think the prosecution can prove to a panel of 12 men and women (a jury) BEYOND A SHADOW OF A DOUBT that Zimmerman set out to kill Martin, then, God have mercy on your soul, you are dilussional.
I have read the discovery, I have read everything the courts have now, discovery, statements, autopsy, *everything*
If you haven't read everything, than don't speculate, do your homework, or don't post speculation as facts, it'll only make you ignorant.
I know you tree hugging bleeding heart liberals *want* to happen, you want George Zimmerman strung up by his balls until he dies, but what you *want* to happen, is not *going* to happen.
Once again, the prosecution overcharged, the prosecution bowed to the Rev. Al types, the Black Panther types, if the prosecution took a deep breath, a day or two to ponder everything, if the prosecution proceeded with a manslaughter charge instead of a *second degree murder charge* they would have a punchers (pardon the pun) chance of getting that conviction, the prosecution will never get a second degree murder conviction.
(look up the definition) Zimmerman did not set out to kill Martin (I am basing that on everything that is in), second degree murder is intentional murder.
All the evidence in the discovery is pointing to a non intentional killing.
FACT: It was Zimmerman, not Martin yelling for help multiple times, not Martin screaming for help as reported initially by the media.
FACT: Zimmerman was on the bottom. Trayvon was on top. Zimmerman's head was being banged on the ground.
Forensics proves this. It's going to be easy to prove to a jury that Zimmerman felt his life was in danger at this time. Also there was THC in Martin's system. That is in the reports. Now some of you are going to argue that THC is not angel dust, not so, the two most common aliases for PCP over the years have been "angel dust" and "THC."
FACT: 911 operators are not authority figures, they can not give a lawful directive, they can not give lawful commands, they are pretty much telephone operators that escalate problems to first responders. (fire, police, ambulance......) they dispense advice, advice that has no clout, all they can do is advise. Now, ignoring the advice is sometimes not the brightest thing to do, and if stupidity was a crime, Martin, Zimmerman, and 75 percent of the posters here would stand trial, but since stupidity is not a crime, Zimmerman did not violate any laws by not heeding 911 advice.
FACT: Zimmerman has a license to carry a conceal a firearm. He did not violate any gun laws.
FACT: Stand your ground laws in Florida state you can you deadly force if you feel your life is in jeopardy.
Stand your ground states you don't have to retreat if you home is invaded, you don't have to retreat if you feel your life is in danger.
A defendant, under Florida law, loses his “stand your ground” defense if he provoked the encounter — but he retains traditional self-defense if he reasonably believed his life was in danger and his only recourse was to employ deadly force.
Thus, if Zimmerman verbally provoked Martin, (which the state can't prove and won't be able to) but Martin then got on top of Zimmerman and banged his head into the ground, broke his nose, bloodied his eyes and persisted in attacking Zimmerman — and if Zimmerman couldn’t protect himself from further attack except by shooting Martin (which Zimmerman can probably prove) — he would have the right to do that.
A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force or herself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.
Now, all the witnesses have filed their reports, there are no more witnesses, no more statements to follow, that's it, everything is in, nobody is on record as to stating how the fight started, the only two people that know the genesis of this altercation are Martin and Zimmerman, and of those two can't speak. For the state (prosecution) to prove *second degree* murder, they have to prove Zimmerman not only provoked the fight, but also intentionally killed him.
FACT: The media is reporting that the gun shot was from 'intermediate range'
FACT: The gun barrel was touching the sweatshirt when the gun was fired (it's in there, read the evidence)
When is the media going to learn they aren't helping matters by misreporting, well most everything in this case.
Editing 911 calls, going out of their way not to show Zimmerman's wounds...... bending, twisting, speculating, going out of their way to make Martin the villan.
When the race riots break out, and it's inevitable, there are already black activist groups assembled down there in Florida as well as white supremacist groups. Did any of you see the sound bite yesterday by one of the skin heads "our white brothers are in danger down there, we are here to back them up"
The media is going to be held largely accountable for those riots if they do break out.
This is probably what the defense (team Zimmerman) will argue.
Zimmerman called 911 to report a suscipious person at Retreat at Twin Lakes in Sanford where he was the neighborhood watch authority at that gated community. The state (prosecution) will probably ask "why did you think he was suspicious", Zimmerman will probably respond "that the person was wandering around the community and was wearing a hooded sweatshirt that concealed his identity"...... the state will ask Zimmerman "did you start the altercation" Zimmerman will probably respond "no, I just questioned Martin as to why he was here...... then all hell broke loose, next thing you know Martin is on top of me, banging my head on the ground, punching me....."
It's up to the state to prove Zimmerman started the altercation, it's not up to the defense to prove he didn't.
One more thing, a HS buddy of mine, who's now a trial lawyer himself said it best the other day, he said "Billy, think of like this, Zimmermans defense team is like a professional baseball club, The prosecution (state) is like a bunch of rag tag little leaguers in comparison."
Just look at special prosecutor Angela Corey.
She purposely held back those pictures of Zimmerman.
From the beginning the prosecution knew Zimmerman had bruises on the back of his head. She submitted false affidavits and generated the media frenzy.
She has a history of reckless aggression in the courts.
I guess Corey could argue character, that Zimmerman has a misdemeanor or two, that he takes prescription anxiety medicine, but the defense can counter that this isn't the 14 yea
Read the statements, the autoposy, the evidence, it's the same material all the attorneys have.
After doing so, if you still think the prosecution can prove to a panel of 12 men and women (a jury) BEYOND A SHADOW OF A DOUBT that Zimmerman set out to kill Martin, then, God have mercy on your soul, you are dilussional.
You already lied again and said he was tested when I mentioned a blood test, which I notice you carefully avoided addressing. Are you now saying you know conclusively that Martin wasn't punched as well? Talk about making up shit as you go along! You don't know who started the fight and keep insisting that you do, which makes you a (ongoing) liar. We DO know that Martin should have kept his ass in the car, if he had we wouldn't be having this conversation.
You sure do throw that "L" word around a lot don't you? I said he received a DNA and Voice test. That's all I said. If that's a lie, I guess I'm going to get struck by lightening.
I believe from the evidence, witness statements and police reports, Martin punched Zimmerman in the face. I guess if that makes me a liar as well then lightening will strike me twice.
We also know if Martin had not punched Zimmerman, he'd be alive.
