Would you prefer a lineup of nine Adam Dunn's or nine David Ecktsteins?

[dmmd98]

I'll take guy with .361 avg with runners in scoring position...you take the .252!

Another point to counter point that is who exactly is afriad of David Eckstein? You think Adam Dunn even see's a fastball after the first pitch when it comes to an at bat with runners in scoring postion. No one pitches around Eckstein where as pitchers are very careful with Dunn. The final comment i'll make on this is if a GM were to offer Adam Dunn for David Eckstein how many GM's would keep Eckstein 5 GM's tops and im being nice about that.

 

[royalfan]

Another point to counter point that is who exactly is afriad of David Eckstein? You think Adam Dunn even see's a fastball after the first pitch when it comes to an at bat with runners in scoring postion. No one pitches around Eckstein where as pitchers are very careful with Dunn. The final comment i'll make on this is if a GM were to offer Adam Dunn for David Eckstein how many GM's would keep Eckstein 5 GM's tops and im being nice about that.

Good point, although I would put it at zero GM's. Plus if there were nine Dunn's you wouldn't be able to pitch around Dunn with bizarro Dunn lurking next.

 

[cincy_]

I'll take guy with .361 avg with runners in scoring position...you take the .252!

UHHHH

I deliberately didn't reply to that stat because it is useless. The question was about 9 Ecksteins or 9 Dunns. You would need two hits by a guy like Eckstein to even get a guy into scoring position and another hit to get by Eckstein. 3 Eckstein hits to get a run - in the SAME inning.

There is a reason that teams that have no POWER can't score runs and that is it.

Do a regression with

a) slugging percentage vs runs scored
b) strike-outs vs. runs scored
c) sacrifices vs runs scored
d) batting average vs. runs scored

PS: We're only talking about scoring runs, not winning games.

How many times can you hit and run with Dunn at the plate?

How many close games can you win by moving the runner over with a sacrifice bunt or getting a 2 out hit with a runner in scoring position?

I am not going to re-invent the wheel but there are books after books after books by people who do this for a living. Each one will explain and prove that stolen bases and sacrifices (small ball) will score you less runs than power bats. Read anything (article or paper) by Bill James and we can discuss this further.

 

[Kojak]

Obviously u guys are looking at it as a fantasy league owner. If you have ever managed or coached, 9 Dunn's means 9 headaches in the locker room. Attitude would bring down that team. 9 Ecks means 9 positive attitudes which means Great Chemistry. 9 ECks = more wins on the field. Plain and simple!

 

[cincy_]

Obviously u guys are looking at it as a fantasy league owner. If you have ever managed or coached, 9 Dunn's means 9 headaches in the locker room. Attitude would bring down that team. 9 Ecks means 9 positive attitudes which means Great Chemistry. 9 ECks = more wins on the field. Plain and simple!

When has Dunn ever been a headache?

Sean Casey and Adam Dunn are two of the best clubhouse guys you'll ever find. EVER.

I think if people are going to put forth an opinion, it should (AT THE VERY LEAST) be based on facts - that would really help.

 

[dmmd98]

Obviously u guys are looking at it as a fantasy league owner. If you have ever managed or coached, 9 Dunn's means 9 headaches in the locker room. Attitude would bring down that team. 9 Ecks means 9 positive attitudes which means Great Chemistry. 9 ECks = more wins on the field. Plain and simple!

Sorry I know I was I wasn't going to comment on this anymore but if you have 9 of the same player how is that player going to be a headache in the dressing room? What is he going to be mad at himself? In this case give me the talent.

 

[cincy_]

Sorry I know I was I wasn't going to comment on this anymore but if you have 9 of the same player how is that player going to be a headache in the dressing room? What is he going to be mad at himself? In this case give me the talent.

He's making it up as we go. He has no idea.

 

[viking611]

Another point to counter point that is who exactly is afriad of David Eckstein? You think Adam Dunn even see's a fastball after the first pitch when it comes to an at bat with runners in scoring postion. No one pitches around Eckstein where as pitchers are very careful with Dunn. The final comment i'll make on this is if a GM were to offer Adam Dunn for David Eckstein how many GM's would keep Eckstein 5 GM's tops and im being nice about that.

I'd be willing to bet there are a lot of pitchers in the league that would rather face Dunn than Eckstein with runners on base. Can easily strike out Dunn whereas Eckstein is going to put the ball in play 95% of the time!!--which is why he leads the league with runners in scoring position. Dunn will put in play maybe 70% if lucky and out of that 70% he's batting .250??

Now correct me if i'm wrong but if the ball is in play 95% of the time and batter is .361 then that is going to equate to a .343 success rate. Dunn at .250 70% of the time results in a .175 successful avg.



Don't even ask where i came up with this stat...kind of thought of it while typing above...i may be just making stuff up now!! :monsters- :lolBIG:

 

[royalfan]

Your logic is whacked Viking. You are counting strikeouts against him twice.

 

[Kojak]

dmmd,

Obviously you have not seen the headache Dunn and Kearns have been in the clubhouse all year. Dunn demanding a trade and Kearns demanding playing time. It has been worth less than 80 wins and 20 games back. Or how about Dunn and his 200 strikeouts a year vs Eck one of the toughest to strikeout. Everyone thought Cards would drop off but Eck has been the steadiest of anybody on the Cards and that includes Pujols this year. Eck has won championship at Anaheim and made playoffs 3 or 4 times. Last time I checked, Dunn is still trying to get his team out of 4th place. I will take 9 winners over 9 whiners any day of the week. Period.

 

[viking611]

thought i was getting crazy...still the point is there are a lot of pitchers that would rather face dunn than eckstein with game on the line. If bases loaded and 2 outs! I would for sure want to face Dunn....real good shot at striking him out or watch him make an out since he's batting .250 in that spot. Or would you like to face the #1 in the league batting .414 and with OPS of 1.146. It is that way because he is putting the ball in play over 95% of the time!

 

[viking611]

scary part of this whole thread is that in another thread Royal said something about 9 dunns and i was going to reply with "i would rather have 9 Ecksteins" then i see this thread started 2 minutes later!

 

[randyrohm]

You guys have said all there is to say. Adam Dunn is the clear choice. If you had 1-9 Dunn's you would have plenty of 2 walks and a bomb. Dunn takes so many balls starting pitchers would be spent by the 6th inning.

 

[cincy_]

thought i was getting crazy...still the point is there are a lot of pitchers that would rather face dunn than eckstein with game on the line. If bases loaded and 2 outs! I would for sure want to face Dunn....real good shot at striking him out or watch him make an out since he's batting .250 in that spot. Or would you like to face the #1 in the league batting .414 and with OPS of 1.146. It is that way because he is putting the ball in play over 95% of the time!

You keep assuming that you have runners in scoring position.

Yeah, if the runners get into 3rd base with no outs or a guy on 2nd with 2 outs, I would rather have Eckstein up - but that wasn't the title of this thread.

With 9 Ecksteins, you would need two hits to even get a guy to 2nd - and another hit to get him in to score a run.

How can you prove to me that a bunch of Eckstein's would get 3 hits in one inning????

Let me repaste what I wrote:

Do you know the odds of getting 3 hits in one inning if each player is batting .292 like Eckstein is????? Even if we have 3 batters hitting .333 in the lineup, only one out of 3 batters would get a hit every inning and he would be picking his nose at first base when the third out was made.

 

[royalfan]

scary part of this whole thread is that in another thread Royal said something about 9 dunns and i was going to reply with "i would rather have 9 Ecksteins" then i see this thread started 2 minutes later!

I thought you would enjoy the Eckstein comparison which is why I picked him.

 

[tooran]

Would you prefer a lineup of nine Adam Dunn's or nine David Ecktsteins? <HR style="COLOR: #fdde82" SIZE=1>The answer clearly depends on who is the better pitcher, Dunn or Eck. Can't win without pitching.

 

[5teamparlay]

HR 441 today---

Adam Dunn hit a solo home run to center field in the eighth inning to cut the Twins’ lead to 5-4.