I see no reason why US clients will not be paid once the money is no longer needed for "evidence", and the US government does not block payment. Obviously the govt has run roughshod over NETeller since they don't really need $55 million for evidence and so far as we know NETeller has not been charged with any crime, so the Feds have another agenda.
I guess the next court date is April 15 since the government requested another continuance.
Since the money is is escrow as "evidence" I think any action by NETeller clients should be filed in Federal court to release these funds.
I guess the next court date is April 15 since the government requested another continuance.
Since the money is is escrow as "evidence" I think any action by NETeller clients should be filed in Federal court to release these funds.
What worries me is that I can see a scenario where this thing drags out over several months... perhaps years.
US account holders get fed up and sue - both individually and in groups. They win judgements including attorney's fees and collection costs which greatly inflates the award amount.
Shareholders, who can't sell their stock becasue trading is suspended, get fed up and sue as well. (In their prospectus Neteller claimed to shareholders that a fair pct of their business was not gambling related. But in my search for non gambling merchants I turned up nowhere near the pct that Neteller claimed so that may be grounds for a shareholder suit right there.) Again, the award amts of the suits get inflated due to attorney costs.
Remember, Neteller just lost 70+ percent of their business overnight becasue they can't operate in the US. It's hard for ANY company to lose 70+ percent of their business and still keep the doors open.
Yes. Neteller is cash rich right now. But what is their cash flow looking like since Jan 16? I strongly suspect Neteller is burning more cash than it takes in right now.
If this thing drags out long enough, when it's eventually time to settle up and pay everybody, the attorneys get paid first, After that, there's very little cash left. Historically in such situations, account holders, creditors, and shareholders get pennies on the dollar.
THAT's what I don't want to see happen. I hate the idea of this being put on hold. I want to see this thing settled today.
-jp
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US account holders get fed up and sue - both individually and in groups. They win judgements including attorney's fees and collection costs which greatly inflates the award amount.
Shareholders, who can't sell their stock becasue trading is suspended, get fed up and sue as well. (In their prospectus Neteller claimed to shareholders that a fair pct of their business was not gambling related. But in my search for non gambling merchants I turned up nowhere near the pct that Neteller claimed so that may be grounds for a shareholder suit right there.) Again, the award amts of the suits get inflated due to attorney costs.
Remember, Neteller just lost 70+ percent of their business overnight becasue they can't operate in the US. It's hard for ANY company to lose 70+ percent of their business and still keep the doors open.
Yes. Neteller is cash rich right now. But what is their cash flow looking like since Jan 16? I strongly suspect Neteller is burning more cash than it takes in right now.
If this thing drags out long enough, when it's eventually time to settle up and pay everybody, the attorneys get paid first, After that, there's very little cash left. Historically in such situations, account holders, creditors, and shareholders get pennies on the dollar.
THAT's what I don't want to see happen. I hate the idea of this being put on hold. I want to see this thing settled today.
-jp
.
The Republican party of America is not a foreigner's problem, unless they are going to invade that foreign country.
As for NETeller the company, life goes on, even without the American market.
As for the funds frozen in NETeller personal accounts by decree from the US Justice system - that is a tricky question.
Are these funds "frozen" or have they been "conficasted"?
I thought there were laws in USA where if you were involved in illegal activity like narcortics, or Mafia related racketeering, if you get into trouble with the law, the sherrif takes your money. And if you are guilty, the police won't give it back.
Anyone has any idea what the US Justice department has indicated the legal status of those funds?
If these funds are involved in illegal & immoral activity, (as defined by you know who), then these funds belong to the government now from what I can tell. It's too bad. No one wants to see honest people getting the shaft.
I'm not a lawyer but:
1. I don't see why US account holders should sue NETeller within the US, since the company does not do business there and US courts have no jurisdiction over a foreign company.
2. I don't see why US account holders should sue NETeller outside the US, say Isle of Man, since that court has no jurisdiction within the US.
3. The only viable suit that I see is to sue the DOJ in Federal court to release the frozen funds and not to interfere in the orderly return of clients accounts.
So court and judgement costs would then be borne by the DOJ, presuming they defend and lose.
The longer this goes on with Neteller not being able to pay Americans (or them stealing/holding your $ or however you look at it). Eventually the rest of the world would be a little disturbed and want to leave. Right now I still use Neteller but I wish their was a better alternative to switch to based on what has happened in the US.
I'm not sure if it would matter.
The question would be for the foreigner is - what can the USA do to bankrupt the company NETeller?
At the moment NETeller is only involved in a criminal investigation and possible lawsuit in the USA. Otherwise, there is no business interest for NETeller in the USA anymore effective now.
What can happen in the USA to bankrupt NETeller, who no longer does business there? Probably nothing.
It kind of goes back to the original question of the thread. Such as: "If the US government takes the money$ from American citizens NETeller accounts, should foreigners be concerned?"
The US Justice Department won't go around arresting everybody in the world, there is not enough jails cells to go around.
I doubt it would do any good since the money is frozen by the DOJ. The ombudsman lacks jurisdiction over US banks and the DOJ.
I imagine the European authorities are become daily more and more pissed off. Can you imagine the outcry if NETeller was a bricks and mortar bank and not an e-wallet? It would be enough reason to disrupt international settlements, since NETeller has not been charged. I think the Europeans still haven't got over the US secretly spying on SWIFT transactions.
Yes. I understand that.
But here's what I don't understand. From the results of the poll at the top of this thread so far it's becoming clear that quite a few non Americans would stop using Neteller if they stiff us. This means that non US customer confidence isn't running high. And that doesn't exactly bode well for Neteller's chances of long term survival.
True, Neteller currently has no way to send electronic money to US residents.
But, how much would it hurt them to make an attempt - ANY attempt - to restore non US customer confidence - and do the stand up thing? IOW pay out to US residents! (Does anybody in their right mind really think that paying out is the WRONG thing to do?)
Neteller could do the right thing by allowing US residents to make purchases from non gambling merchants. Instead they deliberately shut this option off.
Neteller could do the right thing by allowing US residents to perform peer 2 peer transfers. Instead they deliberately shut this option off.
Neteller could do the right thing by mailing out bank drafts to US residents. Yes, a US resident receiving a bank draft would have to enter the item for collection. The process takes a few weeks but if the item presented for collection is honored by the foreign bank then in the end US residents actually do get paid.
Neteller could do the right thing by allowing US residents to travel to locations outside the US in order to be paid.
Neteller can pay their PR people to say anything they want to. But the simple truth is this:
Neteller is not doing the right thing.
And not doing the right thing is the same thing as stealing.
-jp
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It would be really mind boggling to me if the DOJ actually told Neteller, whatever you do, do not let any US residents get their hands on their own money.
In a similar case (Bet on Sports) after David Caruthers was arrested, if I remember right, I believe the DOJ actually ordered the book to return all account balances to US residents and to cease and desist doing business in the the US. Unfortunately the book didn't do the right thing. They fired Caruthers and kept the money.
But if in fact the DOJ did order Neteller not to pay US residents then why hasn't Neteller or their PR firm come forward? If they said "Look, it isn't us. The US governament ordered us not to let you have your money. Stop harrassing us. We're just doing what we've been ordered to do." If that in fact were the case it would certainly take the monkey off of Neteller's shoulders so far as I am concerned.
But that hasn't happened.
Which leads me to believe that the people running Neteller are not honorable at all.
-jp
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In a similar case (Bet on Sports) after David Caruthers was arrested, if I remember right, I believe the DOJ actually ordered the book to return all account balances to US residents and to cease and desist doing business in the the US. Unfortunately the book didn't do the right thing. They fired Caruthers and kept the money.
But if in fact the DOJ did order Neteller not to pay US residents then why hasn't Neteller or their PR firm come forward? If they said "Look, it isn't us. The US governament ordered us not to let you have your money. Stop harrassing us. We're just doing what we've been ordered to do." If that in fact were the case it would certainly take the monkey off of Neteller's shoulders so far as I am concerned.
But that hasn't happened.
Which leads me to believe that the people running Neteller are not honorable at all.
-jp
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