WINKY...Legitimate Touts, Are There Any?

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Winky and his entertaining tales of busting scamdicapping rings and posting the dirty details...

Winky, do you know of any paid handicapper services you would say are worth the money?

I`d like to get your opinion on if ANY paid tout is worth the money.

My guess would be YES, if you can find the right service...

Personally I have tried a few through the years (just a week here or there) and even worked for a few way back when...NONE HAVE BEEN WORTH IT!
 

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I'm just popping in to ask is that how you spell legitimate? I spell it legitimit and that doesn't look right either. No dictionary here.

Okay carry on.....
 

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Oh well since I am here I may as well comment. I believe there is "legitimit" touts out there in that they are not all crooks. Some may even be honest. However I agree with Fish and think they are not worth it. Add another expense you have to outrun to make a profit? Not to mention you never seem to get the same lines they do. Even then most don't bet so their tracking is suspect at best. They lose four 1 unit plays in a row and then come out with a 5 unit play. They are 1-4 but up +.6 units? If I have unlimited money I would never lose on paper either. If they could win they would bet and win on their own, end of story.

Do not ever pay for picks.
 

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legitimate??? I think I have it right,lol...sometimes typing out words they do look odd...I could be wrong...
 

The Great Govenor of California
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Look at my last 3 tennis tournaments in the other sports section, you would have to be a complete moron not to pay for my tennis picks.
 

Another Day, Another Dollar
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I would not pay for picks or recommend it, but it would be a lack of fairness to say there was no legitimate services.
 

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I wouldn`t recommend it either. I did pay Ben Flynn the "bounty hunter",lol...This was about 5 years ago, for about a month, and yes I lost with him...The kicker was when I realized he took the best line of the week to keep track of whether he won or lost...I called him on it and he hung up on me...
 

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Depends what you classify as a tout. Who2beton.com offered me a "job" on one of their sites. The deal was they don't pay me anything until I had a strong following thinking I was capping games anyway and then when I did they would have to be the ones to let me know as I'd still be in my office/couch. It didnt sound worth it when I'd be looking for numbers before game time. I think they all add half point their way.

I had a loogetimaet winning record documented so I'd say the answer is yes there are loogetimaet touts but overall they are salesman.

Thats all a tout really is isnt it? Someone who can show or convince you that they have the ability to win and will share for a price.
 

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Pat:

I'm so lazy I go to www.dictionary.com to look up spellings. I have a dictionary but it's so much easier to go to the web site.

icon_smile.gif
 

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There are legitimate touts. I know some that I trust and bet on because I feel they have winning picks.

One easy way to tell the legitimate ones from the bad ones is the legitimate ones will show a YTD record in full and their winning % will usually be between 49% to 58%. They won't say things like, 10-2 over the last 12 games or whatever, even if they are 10-2 over the last 12 games. And yes, sometimes they lose. I'm sure even Billy Walters has had losing seasons.

If someone says he is a lifetime 60% or higher, then he is a fraud. End of story.

David
 

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If you can find someone who picks at 54% over the long run, you will make a lot of money because of point shopping, sports book bonuses, free half-points, reduced vig shops and specials, rebates on losses, free contests, and all the other promos.

In fact, I think with all that the offshore has to offer, and especially if you live in Vegas and can drive around to places that are super-square, the world is your oyster. Of course, handicapping at 54% is not easy, not easy at all.

David
 
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Honest people who sell picks are just honest handicappers who sell picks. Touts are frauds like Joe Wiz
 

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There are honest touts, but it's rare. I won't mention his name because it would sound like shilling, but one guy I know makes his customers 8-10% ROI year in and year out. He bets the games with his own money and then gives them out. He wins on the games and gets a steady income too.

I'd agree that most touts are either crooks or losers.
 

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I think most of us follow sports very closely and can't help but have an opinion on most games. What touts prey on are those in the middle of a losing stretch who question their own talent. It is painful enough to lose a game you felt strongly on, it is devastating to lose your ass on a boileroom play.
 

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A few years back here in Hawaii, the papers were loaded with these sports scammers ads. They caught alot of people here, and alot of people owed alot of people money and alot of shit hit alot of fans. So a news company did an investigation of theses ads by calling them. They were 90% recording ads that billed your phone. What they found out and reported to people was that these recordings were alternated. Person 1 calls and get team A, Person 2 calls and gets team B. This guranteed the scammers would get back 50% of the customers back next week.

After that news presentation, those ad quickly disappeared. Today, we only have a few sports services here, that are local services. These services are run by local people and are very legit. They have no choice but to be legit if they plan to stay in business here in Hawaii. Here on this rock you have no where to hide and word gets around fast.
 

I am sorry for using the "R" word - and NOTHING EL
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Winky, do you know of any paid handicapper services you would say are worth the money? I`d like to get your opinion on if ANY paid tout is worth the money. My guess would be YES, if you can find the right service...Personally I have tried a few through the years (just a week here or there) and even worked for a few way back when...NONE HAVE BEEN WORTH IT!
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***first off - david matthews is 100% correct in what he wrote. pay attention there to what he said.

after giving it some though - YES - there are services that are worth paying for. which ones - honestly - i don't know. i do agree with david - and others - that ANYONE saying they hit over 60% is someone to avoid at all costs - but i think we know that. services that claim to hit 80% are lying SOB's - we know it - and so do they.

in calling these services - ONLY TWO (2) gave me what they promised.

the first one might shock people - but it was Jim Feist. he advertised a MNF GOY between NYG/Philly within the last few years. i forget which side he had - but i know when i called in for it - i was GIVEN it.

the second one - and BY FAR the VERY BEST experience i have EVER had was with "doc's sports." it happened last year. i got something in the mail from them saying on a particular friday they would give all callers their GOM - or something like that. i set the letter aside so i could call and see what kind of "run around" they would give me. when that friday came - i couldn't find the letter. i did find it the next wednesday. i figured "WTF" and called them on friday - a week later. i played somewhat dumb. i told them i called in for the free game. they told me that offer was for the previous week - but they would give me one of their top plays anyway. they gave me a pick (and i recall this as clear as a bell - because the experience blew me away) "Utah over Indiana." Utah was about a 15-point fave - and pulled away late to cover. Doc's gave me the pick WITHOUT me having to give them myname or number. the whole call took LESS than 2 minutes - and around 70 seconds at most. BY FAR doc's was the very best service i have ever called and dealt with. i have no idea what their record is over the year(s) but i know the way they treated me (and from what i am told - everyone else) they are someone i'd want to deal with - because they treated me well - and because of that - i'd be more than willing to give them a shot (http://www.docsports.com)

does that mean i recommend them? well - i recommend dealing with them for they are BY FAR the best service i have ever called trying to "bust." they were 100% upright, honest and a pleasure to deal with. i expected to be treated like manure - but instead was treated first-rate.

i will state here that i have known dave cokin for at least 10-12 years. when he hosted the weeknight radio show on kdwn from 10P-midnite i called in all the time. i got to know dave then. i will never forget one time in 1992 i was in vegas for the ncaa tourney. i was in albertville for the 1992 winter olympics and called dave from there, too (of course cbs paid for the phone bill). when i got to town (vegas) i had to drop something off at the station for donny bader. it was the friday of the tourney and dave was going over the games. he was all alone so he pulled up a chair and told me to put on some headphones and talk with him about the games on the air. i NEVER forgot that moment - just 2 guys talking ncaa hoops with a potentially huge radio audience listening. i will admit i can't be 100% objective when dealing with dave because of this. i know he catches a lot of hell here for being a "Feist" guy - and that he is. i can tell you he has his hot and cold streaks - like they all do. i can also tell you that come season's end - if you play dave's pix you will be up almost every season in every sport. how much - it can vary - but i am fairly certain you will be up (i await railbird's response here - like i await the plague).

when looking for a service to spend money on - DO NOT go for ANYONE who says they hit a percentage you know is B.S. i would also avoid any of the "yellers and screamers" for anyone who has to do so - is covering up the fact the suck.

sadly - this means the only people you can trust - are the one no one ever hears of.

from everything i have heard of, there really is only ONE sports monitoring service you can count on to be honest and reliable - the sports monitor in OK:

http://www.thesportsmonitor.com

take a look here. see who is kicking butt and winning. find out who they are and then get their website and find out more about them. if you decide to call them - NEVER call from a phone you don't want them to call you back on. i say this because when i bust services - i always use a pay phone. this way when i hang up i never have to worry about them calling me back - or selling my number. ONE TIME i made the mistake of calling dan pastorini's 800-number from home - and giving them my number (although they got it anyway - especially when their phone bill came). i got calls from about 50-75 sports services for about the next 3-5 YEARS! i would get calls all the time - especially during football season or the ncaa tourney. FINALLY all this ended about a year or 2 ago - but i went thru HELL for 3-5 years and easily got over 500 calls from services. so if you call one - do it from a pay phone at first (in case people don't know - when you call an 800-number, the business gets something called an "ANI" - which basically gives them your name, address and phone number - and there is NO WAY you can avoid it - for calling an 800-number is the same as calling a 900-number in that the business gets TONS of info on you).

but back to these services. if you see one doing well - and decide you would like to try them out - call them. if they try to do some high pressure sales pitch on you - hang up (this is why calling from a pay phone is great) and forget them. if they treat you like a person - ask if they have a trial rate. if they do - they will tell you. if they are smart - they will work something out for you.

i would try and arrange to get the picks via calling a recorded message. this way they can't "2-side" you (give some people "Team A" and others "Team B" - this way 50% of their clients are happy). if the call is on a recorded message you are getting the same pix as everyone else.

i would also realize that if you are going short term with them - that does NOT guarantee you will win. a service that hits 57% means they hit 4 out of 7 games. this does not mean they hit EXACTLY 4 out of every 7 games. it means they can hit 7 out of 10 one week, and then 1 out of 4 the next - for 8 out of 14 - or 57%. see what i mean.

andy iskoe is someone i know about - and respect. last year he finished 3rd in the hilton contest. not bad - huh. this season he had a stretch where he lost 10 STRAIGHT games in the contest. he went 0-5 for 2 weeks in a row. does this mean he sucks? no - it means he had a bad run - something all cappers go thru. if you were with his picks last season you made a ton of money - so this season he is coming back to normal. when this season is done - add up his combined record - and i sense it will be above 52.38% (break even). yet - if you only played his last year's picks - you'd be way up - while if you play his this year's picks - you hate his guts for he is killing you. but average over 1+ years - you'd be up.

i hope this answers what you wanted to know. if not - lemme know what i missed.
 

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Winky- Just because Doc's gave you a free pick without hustling you by no means should anyone call them. Over a five year period,they are under 50%. They are just a cut above Marc Lawrence and he absolutely blows.
 

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