Will the stimulus actually stimulate? what some economists think

[Willie99]

WASHINGTON — The compromise economic stimulus plan agreed to by negotiators from the House of Representatives and the Senate is short on incentives to get consumers spending again and long on social goals that won't stimulate economic activity, according to a range of respected economists.
"I think (doing) nothing would have been better," said Ed Yardeni, an investment analyst who's usually an optimist, in an interview with McClatchy. He argued that the plan fails to provide the right incentives to spur spending.
"It's unfocused. That is my problem. It is a lot of money for a lot of nickel-and- dime programs. I would have rather had a lot of money for (promoting purchase of) housing and autos . . . . Most of this plan is really, I think, aimed at stabilizing the situation and helping people get through the recession, rather than getting us out of the recession. They are actually providing less short-term stimulus by cutting back, from what I understand, some of the tax credits."



http://www.mcclatchydc.com/227/story/62082.html

 

[Willie99]

"short on incentives to get consumers spending again and long on social goals that won't stimulate economic activity"

baddabing

 

[whalewager]

Obama is a puppet.

 

[Kiln]

What some other economists are saying

excerpted from http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dy...AR2009020702159.html?nav=rss_email/components

While economists remain divided on the role of government generally, an overwhelming number from both parties are saying that a government stimulus package -- even a flawed one -- is urgently needed to help prevent a steeper slide in the economy.
Many economists say the precise size and shape of the package developing in Congress matter less than the timing, and that any delay is damaging.
"Most of the things in the package, the big dollar amounts, are things that are pretty quick stimulus and need to be done," said Alice Rivlin, who was former president Bill Clinton's budget director and who criticized aspects of the proposed stimulus in congressional testimony two weeks ago. "Is it a perfect package? Of course not. But we're past that. Let's just do it."

Economists who initially rejected the need for fiscal stimulus have warmed to the idea, too. Several months ago, Alan Viard, a Bush administration economist now at the American Enterprise Institute, thought the right size for a government spending bill was "probably zero." He favored reliance on the Federal Reserve to slash interest rates and existing unemployment benefits to bolster the jobless. Now Viard shares the view that a stimulus package is needed, although he would prefer one limited primarily to tax cuts and direct benefits for victims of the recession, such as increased unemployment benefits.

"Things have gotten so bad so quickly," Viard said. "We have now lost 3.6 million jobs, a stunning loss. But what's more horrifying is that half that loss has occurred in the last three months. This is a severe recession. There's no doubt about it."

 

[whalewager]

This is a severe recession....

Well no shit

 

[Mistermj]

FULL PAGE AD IN THE NYT - The full text with the 200 ECONOMISTS (including Nobel laureates)

"There is no disagreement that we
need action byour government,
a recovery plan that will help to
jumpstart the economy."
PRESIDENT ELECT BARACK OBAMA JAN 9TH 2009

With all due respect Mr.President,that is not true. There is no disagreement that we need action by our government, a recovery plan that will help to jumpstart the economy.

Notwithstanding reports that all ECONOMISTS are now Keynesians and that we all support a big increase in the burden of
government, we the undersigned do not believe that more government spending is a way to improve economic performance.

More government spending by Hoover and Roosevelt did not pull the United States economy out of the Great Depression in
the 1930s. More government spending did not solve Japan’s “lost decade” in the 1990s. As such, it is a triumph of hope over experience to believe that more government spending will help the U.S. today. To improve the economy, policymakers should focus on reforms that remove impediments to work, saving, investment and production. Lower tax rates and a reduction in the burden of government are the best ways of using fiscal policy to boost growth.

PA I D F O R B Y T H E CATO I N S T I T U T E , WWW.cato.org


BURTON ABRAMS, Univ. of Delaware
DOUGLAS ADIE, Ohio University
RYAN AMACHER, Univ. of Texas at Arlington
J.J.ARIAS, Georgia College & State University
HOWARD BAETJER, JR., Towson University
STACIE BECK, Univ. of Delaware
DON BELLANTE, Univ. of South Florida
JAMES BENNETT, George Mason University
BRUCE BENSON, Florida State University
SANJAI BHAGAT, Univ. of Colorado at Boulder
MARK BILS, Univ. of Rochester
ALBERTO BISIN, New York University
WALTER BLOCK, Loyola University New Orleans
CECIL BOHANON, Ball State University
MICHELE BOLDRIN,Washington University in St. Louis
DONALD BOOTH, Chapman University
MICHAEL BORDO, Rutgers University
SAMUEL BOSTAPH, Univ. of Dallas
SCOTT BRADFORD, Brigham Young University
GENEVIEVE BRIAND, Eastern Washington University
GEORGE BROWER, Moravian College
JAMES BUCHANAN, Nobel laureate
RICHARD BURDEKIN, Claremont McKenna College
HENRY BUTLER, Northwestern University
WILLIAM BUTOS, Trinity College
PETER CALCAGNO, College of Charleston
BRYAN CAPLAN, George Mason University
ART CARDEN, Rhodes College
JAMES CARDON, Brigham Young University
DUSTIN CHAMBERS, Salisbury University
EMILY CHAMLEE-WRIGHT, Beloit College
V.V. CHARI, Univ. of Minnesota
BARRY CHISWICK, Univ. of Illinois at Chicago
LAWRENCE CIMA, John Carroll University
J.R. CLARK, Univ. of Tennessee at Chattanooga
GIAN LUCA CLEMENTI, New York University
R.MORRIS COATS, Nicholls State University
JOHN COCHRAN, Metropolitan State College
JOHN COCHRANE, Univ. of Chicago
JOHN COGAN, Hoover Institution, Stanford University
JOHN COLEMAN, Duke University
BOYD COLLIER, Tarleton State University
ROBERT COLLINGE, Univ. of Texas at San Antonio
LEE COPPOCK, Univ. of Virginia
MARIO CRUCINI, Vanderbilt University
CHRISTOPHER CULP, Univ. of Chicago
KIRBY CUNDIFF, Northeastern State University
ANTONY DAVIES, Duquesne University
JOHN DAWSON, Appalachian State University
CLARENCE DEITSCH, Ball State University
ARTHUR DIAMOND, JR., Univ. of Nebraska at Omaha
JOHN DOBRA, Univ. of Nevada, Reno
JAMES DORN, Towson University
CHRISTOPHER DOUGLAS, Univ. of Michigan, Flint
FLOYD DUNCAN, Virginia Military Institute
FRANCIS EGAN, Trinity College
JOHN EGGER, Towson University
KENNETH ELZINGA, Univ. of Virginia
PAUL EVANS, Ohio State University
EUGENE FAMA, Univ. of Chicago
W. KEN FARR, Georgia College & State University
HARTMUT FISCHER, Univ. of San Francisco
FRED FOLDVARY, Santa Clara University
MURRAY FRANK, Univ. of Minnesota
PETER FRANK,Wingate University
TIMOTHY FUERST, Bowling Green State University
B. DELWORTH GARDNER, Brigham Young University
JOHN GAREN, Univ. of Kentucky
RICK GEDDES, Cornell University
AARON GELLMAN, Northwestern University
WILLIAM GERDES, Clarke College
MICHAEL GIBBS, Univ. of Chicago
STEPHAN GOHMANN, Univ. of Louisville
RODOLFO GONZALEZ, San Jose State University
RICHARD GORDON, Penn State University
PETER GORDON, Univ. of Southern California
ERNIE GOSS, Creighton University
PAUL GREGORY, Univ. of Houston
EARL GRINOLS, Baylor University
DANIEL GROPPER, Auburn University
R.W. HAFER, Southern Illinois
University, Edwardsville
ARTHUR HALL, Univ. of Kansas
STEVE HANKE, Johns Hopkins
STEPHEN HAPPEL, Arizona State University
FRANK HEFNER, College of Charleston
RONALD HEINER, George Mason University
DAVID HENDERSON, Hoover Institution,
Stanford University
ROBERT HERREN, North Dakota State University
GAILEN HITE, Columbia University
STEVEN HORWITZ, St. Lawrence University
JOHN HOWE, Univ. of Missouri, Columbia
JEFFREY HUMMEL, San Jose State University
BRUCE HUTCHINSON, Univ. of Tennessee at Chattanooga
BRIAN JACOBSEN,Wisconsin Lutheran College
JASON JOHNSTON, Univ. of Pennsylvania
BOYAN JOVANOVIC, New York University
JONATHAN KARPOFF, Univ. of Washington
BARRY KEATING, Univ. of Notre Dame
NAVEEN KHANNA, Michigan State University
NICHOLAS KIEFER, Cornell University
DANIEL KLEIN, George Mason University
PAUL KOCH, Univ. of Kansas
NARAYANA KOCHERLAKOTA, Univ. of Minnesota
MAREK KOLAR, Delta College
ROGER KOPPL, Fairleigh Dickinson University
KISHORE KULKARNI, Metropolitan
State College of Denver
DEEPAK LAL, UCLA
GEORGE LANGELETT, South Dakota State University
JAMES LARRIVIERE, Spring Hill College
ROBERT LAWSON, Auburn University
JOHN LEVENDIS, Loyola University New Orleans
DAVID LEVINE,Washington University in St. Louis
PETER LEWIN, Univ. of Texas at Dallas
DEAN LILLARD, Cornell University
ZHENG LIU, Emory University
ALAN LOCKARD, Binghampton University
EDWARD LOPEZ, San Jose State University
JOHN LUNN, Hope College
GLENN MACDONALD,Washington
University in St. Louis
MICHAEL MARLOW, California
Polytechnic State University
DERYL MARTIN, Tennessee Tech University
DALE MATCHECK, Northwood University
DEIRDRE MCCLOSKEY, Univ. of Illinois, Chicago
JOHN MCDERMOTT, Univ. of South Carolina
JOSEPH MCGARRITY, Univ. of Central Arkansas
ROGER MEINERS, Univ. of Texas at Arlington
ALLAN MELTZER, Carnegie Mellon University
JOHN MERRIFIELD, Univ. of Texas at San Antonio
JAMES MILLER III, George Mason University
JEFFREY MIRON, Harvard University
THOMAS MOELLER, Texas Christian University
JOHN MOORHOUSE,Wake Forest University
ANDREA MORO, Vanderbilt University
ANDREW MORRISS, Univ. of Illinois
at Urbana-Champaign
MICHAEL MUNGER, Duke University
KEVIN MURPHY, Univ. of Southern California
RICHARD MUTH, Emory University
CHARLES NELSON, Univ. of Washington
SETH NORTON, Wheaton College
LEE OHANIAN, Univ. of California, Los Angeles
LYDIA ORTEGA, San Jose State University
EVAN OSBORNE, Wright State University
RANDALL PARKER, East Carolina University
DONALD PARSONS, George Washington University
SAM PELTZMAN, Univ. of Chicago
MARK PERRY, Univ. of Michigan, Flint
CHRISTOPHER PHELAN, Univ. of Minnesota
GORDON PHILLIPS, Univ. of Maryland
MICHAEL PIPPENGER, Univ. of Alaska, Fairbanks
TOMASZ PISKORSKI, Columbia University
BRENNAN PLATT, Brigham Young University
JOSEPH POMYKALA, Towson University
WILLIAM POOLE, Univ. of Delaware
BARRY POULSON, Univ. of Colorado at Boulder
BENJAMIN POWELL, Suffolk University
EDWARD PRESCOTT, Nobel laureate
GARY QUINLIVAN, Saint Vincent College
REZA RAMAZANI, Saint Michael’s College
ADRIANO RAMPINI, Duke University
ERIC RASMUSEN, Indiana University
MARIO RIZZO, New York University
RICHARD ROLL, Univ. of California, Los Angeles
ROBERT ROSSANA,Wayne State University
JAMES ROUMASSET, Univ. of Hawaii at Manoa
JOHN ROWE, Univ. of South Florida
CHARLES ROWLEY, George Mason University
JUAN RUBIO-RAMIREZ, Duke University
ROY RUFFIN, Univ. of Houston
KEVIN SALYER, Univ. of California, Davis
PAVEL SAVOR, Univ. of Pennsylvania
RONALD SCHMIDT, Univ. of Rochester
CARLOS SEIGLIE, Rutgers University
WILLIAM SHUGHART II, Univ. of Mississippi
CHARLES SKIPTON, Univ. of Tampa
JAMES SMITH,Western Carolina University
VERNON SMITH, Nobel laureate
LAWRENCE SOUTHWICK, JR., Univ. at Buffalo
DEAN STANSEL, Florida Gulf Coast University
HOUSTON STOKES, Univ. of Illinois at Chicago
BRIAN STROW,Western Kentucky University
SHIRLEY SVORNY, California State
University, Northridge
JOHN TATOM, Indiana State University
WADE THOMAS, State University
of New York at Oneonta
HENRY THOMPSON, Auburn University
ALEX TOKAREV, The King’s College
EDWARD TOWER, Duke University
LEO TROY, Rutgers University
DAVID TUERCK, Suffolk University
CHARLOTTE TWIGHT, Boise State University
KAMAL UPADHYAYA, Univ. of New Haven
CHARLES UPTON, Kent State University
T. NORMANVAN COTT, Ball State University
RICHARDVEDDER, Ohio University
RICHARDWAGNER, George Mason University
DOUGLAS M.WALKER, College of Charleston
DOUGLAS O.WALKER, Regent University
CHRISTOPHERWESTLEY, Jacksonville
State University
LAWRENCEWHITE, Univ. of Missouri at St. Louis
WALTERWILLIAMS, George Mason University
DOUGWILLS, Univ. of Washington Tacoma
DENNISWILSON,Western Kentucky University
GARYWOLFRAM, Hillsdale College
HUIZHONG ZHOU,Western Michigan University
REST HERE

 

[Georgiaboy]

How bout what the CBO is saying? Package isn't going to do shit except make us further in debt. Nice job Nancy, Nice job.

 

[tiznow]

PA I D F O R B Y T H E CATO I N S T I T U T E , WWW.cato.org

now that shit hit the fan as the kooks were predicting...

gotta love the "conservatives" citing the kooks who they scolded for supporting that ron paul nutjob

@)

 

[Willie99]

Again and again and again and again and again

the only thing I, and many others, liked about Obi Wan Paul was his fiscal policy with respect to spending

now if we disagree with him on just about everything else, we have reasons to not support.

throw in the fact that he didn't have a snowball in hell chances to win, and your case kinda crumbles

tizdreamer

 

[Willie99]

and tizspindoom, just because I didn't vote for Obi Wan Paul, does that mean I have to support Obama's Earmark Stimulus Bill?

 

[Georgiaboy]

CBO says this bill isn't worth the paper its written on. Written on literally

 

[Woody0]

The stimulus is only part of the solution.

Until the FDIC takes over the bankrupt banks and reorganizes them this recession will continue.

 

[Risk44]

Reminder Originally posted by Punter:
Just wanted to remind the pissed off Conservatives that you did it your way for the last 8 years and your WAY SUCKED!

*Warning as a disclaimer no one should listen to ANY Republican. Being a Republican can be hazardous to your health. Republicans have Screwed up the economy and the country over the past 8 years, led us into an unnecessary war, and NOW do not want to do anything to fix their created mess Therefore Please Disregard anything that is Spewed from the Piehole of any Republican - they can't get it right.

 

[tiznow]

and tizspindoom, just because I didn't vote for Obi Wan Paul, does that mean I have to support Obama's Earmark Stimulus Bill?

actually this bill worse than an earmark bill

at least with earmarks people get to apply and fight over a pile of taxpayer dollars

with this money is being mandated for certain things its a pre earmarking bill basically

 

[Willie99]

Reminder Originally posted by Punter:
Just wanted to remind the pissed off Conservatives that you did it your way for the last 8 years and your WAY SUCKED!

*Warning as a disclaimer no one should listen to ANY Republican. Being a Republican can be hazardous to your health. Republicans have Screwed up the economy and the country over the past 8 years, led us into an unnecessary war, and NOW do not want to do anything to fix their created mess Therefore Please Disregard anything that is Spewed from the Piehole of any Republican - they can't get it right.

again sweetpea, you simply have no clue about policy or economics or reality or life

your uninformed opinion "sucks"

 

[Mistermj]

You can't talk about what Bush did...and then stamp your approval on doing the same thing x 10!

Make no mistake...Obama and the Dems had their fair chance to do what they think will fix the problems.

The now own it...

I'd be happy if Obama could get a cabinet together...can they find any rats that didn't jump off this ship yet?

 

[Risk44]

again sweetpea, you simply have

your uninformed opinion "sucks"

haha.. Neither do the Republicans.. They cant get this part right..

no clue about policy or economics or reality or life

 

[Stocks]

Heres my opinion

All the tax cuts which I've heard is up to half is'nt going to do much if anything, I know the republicans love tax cuts but I dont think they're going to do much.

To get the economy going again you need jobs so use all the stimulus money to create jobs. The roads and bridges in the states need to be fixed correct? so use some of this money to fix them it creates jobs and does something the government has to do anyway.

Second the states has a huge energy problem so take a bunch of this money and build windwills, this solves a few problems it will help your manufactoring problem, help your steel industry if they're made from steel that is. It will create jobs to build them, jobs to install them, and long term jobs maintaining them. If you dont want the gov to own stuff then when they're built sell them to a power company.

Thats just two areas where this money could be spent and create a lot of jobs all over the states while solving two future problems which I would think would be the smarter thing to do than giving people a $20 a week tax cut.

 

[tocco05]

Heres my opinion

All the tax cuts which I've heard is up to half is'nt going to do much if anything, I know the republicans love tax cuts but I dont think they're going to do much.

To get the economy going again you need jobs so use all the stimulus money to create jobs. The roads and bridges in the states need to be fixed correct? so use some of this money to fix them it creates jobs and does something the government has to do anyway.

Second the states has a huge energy problem so take a bunch of this money and build windwills, this solves a few problems it will help your manufactoring problem, help your steel industry if they're made from steel that is. It will create jobs to build them, jobs to install them, and long term jobs maintaining them. If you dont want the gov to own stuff then when they're built sell them to a power company.

Thats just two areas where this money could be spent and create a lot of jobs all over the states while solving two future problems which I would think would be the smarter thing to do than giving people a $20 a week tax cut.

This country shouldn't be spending any money. It is broke. The govt. will just make all the problems worse with this spending plan. Spending is what caused this problem. The first thing the govt. should do is cut spending. Our whole economy was a joke. You have to let the free market correct itself, govt. will not fix it, it will just make it worse. Why people believe that the same people who got us into this mess, are the same people that the public believes can get us out is just crazy to me.

 

[tiznow]

This country shouldn't be spending any money. It is broke. The govt. will just make all the problems worse with this spending plan. Spending is what caused this problem. The first thing the govt. should do is cut spending. Our whole economy was a joke. You have to let the free market correct itself, govt. will not fix it, it will just make it worse. Why people believe that the same people who got us into this mess, are the same people that the public believes can get us out is just crazy to me.

other than the banks you are correct

if the banking system fails than the entire ponzi scheme economy fails