Why Homos Shouldn't be in the Military

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http://www.statesman.com/opinion/content/editorial/stories/04/17/0417lindsay_edit.html
Lindsay, Johnson, Shuler & Went: Why homosexuality is incompatible with military service

James J. Lindsay, Jerome Johnson, E.G. Shuler Jr. and Joseph J. Went, SPECIAL TO THE WASHINGTON POST

Friday, April 17, 2009 With the nation engaged in two wars and facing a number of potential adversaries, this is no time to weaken our military. Yet if gay rights activists and their allies have their way, grave harm will soon be inflicted on our all-volunteer force.
The administration and some in Congress have pledged to repeal Section 654 of U.S. Code Title 10, which states that homosexuals are not eligible for military service. Often confused with the "don't ask, don't tell" regulations issued by President Bill Clinton, this statute establishes several reasons that homosexuality is incompatible with military service.
Section 654 recognizes that the military is a "specialized society" that is "fundamentally different from civilian life." It requires a unique code of personal conduct and demands "extraordinary sacrifices, including the ultimate sacrifice, in order to provide for the common defense." The law appreciates military personnel who, unlike civilians who go home after work, must accept living conditions that are often "characterized by forced intimacy with little or no privacy."
While there have been changes in civilian society since this statute was adopted by wide bipartisan majorities in 1993, the military realities it describes abide. If anything, they are more acute in wartime.
In our experience, and that of more than 1,000 retired flag and general officers who have joined us in signing an open letter to President Barack Obama and Congress, repeal of this law would prompt many to leave the military. Polling by Military Times of its active-duty subscribers over the past four years indicates that 58 percent have consistently opposed repeal. In its most recent survey, 10 percent said they would not re-enlist if that happened, and 14 percent said they would consider leaving.
If just the lesser number left the military, our active-duty, reserve and National Guard forces would lose 228,600 people — more than the total of today's active-duty Marine Corps. Losses of even a few thousand sergeants, petty officers and experienced mid-grade officers, when we are trying to expand the Army and Marine Corps, could be crippling.
And the damage would not stop there. Legislation introduced to repeal Section 654 (H.R. 1283) would impose on commanders a radical policy that mandates "nondiscrimination" against "homosexuality, or bisexuality, whether the orientation is real or perceived." Mandatory training classes and judicial proceedings would consume valuable time defining that language. Team cohesion and concentration on missions would suffer if our troops had to live in close quarters with others who could be sexually attracted to them.
We don't need a study commission to know that tensions are inevitable in conditions offering little or no privacy, increasing the stress of daily military life. "Zero tolerance" of dissent would become official intolerance of anyone who disagrees with this policy, forcing additional thousands to leave the service by denying them promotions or punishing them in other ways. Many more will be dissuaded from ever enlisting. There is no compelling national security reason for running these risks to our armed forces. Discharges for homosexual conduct have been few compared with separations for other reasons, such as pregnancy/family hardship or weight-standard violations. There are better ways to remedy shortages in some military specialties than imposing social policies that would escalate losses of experienced personnel who are not easily replaced.
Some suggest that the United States must emulate Denmark, the Netherlands and Canada, which have incorporated homosexuals into their forces. But none of these countries has the institutional culture or worldwide responsibilities of our military. America's armed forces are models for our allies' militaries and the envy of our adversaries — not the other way around.
As former senior commanders, we know that the reason for this long-standing envy is the unsurpassed discipline, morale and readiness of our military. The burden should be on proponents of repeal to demonstrate how their initiative would improve these qualities of our armed services. This they cannot do.
Consequently, our recent open letter advised America's elected leaders: "We believe that imposing this burden on our men and women in uniform would undermine recruiting and retention, impact leadership at all echelons, have adverse effects on the willingness of parents who lend their sons and daughters to military service, and eventually break the All-Volunteer Force."
Everyone can serve America in some way, but there is no constitutional right to serve in the military. The issue is not one of individual desires, or of the norms and mores of civilian society. Rather, the question is one of national security and the discipline, morale, readiness and culture of the U.S. armed forces upon which that security depends.
It is a question we cannot afford to answer in a way that breaks our military.



Lindsay, a retired Army general, was the first commander of U.S. Special Operations Command. Johnson, a retired admiral, was vice chief of naval operations. Shuler, a retired lieutenant general, was commander of the Strategic Air Command's 8th Air Force. Went, a retired general, was assistant commandant of the Marine Corps. They are founding members of Flag and General Officers for the Military.
 

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That is just thoo not true. It's thilly even to bring it up. Tisk, tisk, you deserve a spanking you bad boy.
 

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Actually homosexuals seem more suited to Army life than heteros.

I mean couped up with other men. It worked for the Greeks and the Aegeans. Alexander had great success with it.
 

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Polling by Military Times of its active-duty subscribers over the past four years indicates that 58 percent have consistently opposed repeal. In its most recent survey, 10 percent said they would not re-enlist if that happened, and 14 percent said they would consider leaving.

How does this compare to the numbers who said they would leave if blacks were integrated with whites or women were allowed to join or a Democrat elected president? Just because people tell those who take the surveys doesn't make it true, especially among a group with such a long history of saying they will leave and then saying in

Mandatory training classes and judicial proceedings would consume valuable time defining that language.

Could easily be integrated into Sexual Harassment classes and Equal Opportunity classes that already come up way too often. Cut back on those wastes of time and there is no issue

Team cohesion and concentration on missions would suffer if our troops had to live in close quarters with others who could be sexually attracted to them.

Fraternization is already a huge part of military life

We don't need a study commission to know that tensions are inevitable in conditions offering little or no privacy, increasing the stress of daily military life.

But how does a gay guy trying to kill the enemy increase tension?

"Zero tolerance" of dissent would become official intolerance of anyone who disagrees with this policy, forcing additional thousands to leave the service by denying them promotions or punishing them in other ways.

Gays in the military does not mean 'Zero tolerance' of dissent, it simply means guys who like guys would be allowed to go on patrols in central Baghdad. Only the best and most qualified of all servicemembers will receive promotions, while the less qualified will remain in the lower ranks or ETS

Discharges for homosexual conduct have been few compared with separations for other reasons, such as pregnancy/family hardship or weight-standard violations.

This may be true, but more often they ones kicked out for being gay are doing their jobs and want to stay in (otherwise they would have already left) those who are too fat aren't doing their jobs capably and those who ask to leave because they get knocked up too much don't care enough to balance family and work

The funny thing is that gays already are allowed to serve, just not openly. Funny because it absolutely no one agrees with the arrangement. Some think they should be banned from every signing up, everyone else thinks they shouldn't have to hide it from everyone
 

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I assume people who are anti gay, kinda wished they didnt exist. Well what better place for that to happen than on the front lines in Afghanistan and Iraq
 
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I assume people who are anti gay, kinda wished they didnt exist. Well what better place for that to happen than on the front lines in Afghanistan and Iraq

Why do you assume that Lindsay (retired Army general, first
commander of US Special Operations Command), Johnson (retired
admiral, vice chief of Naval Operations), Shuler (retired Lieutenant
General, commander of the Strategic Air Command's 8th Air Force),
Went (retired General, assistant Commandant of the Marine Corps) are
all anti-gay?

Maybe these extremely highly experienced military veterans have
a better idea what works and what doesn't in the military than
all of the posters in here put together?
 

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No matter how queer you are, once they start shooting at you, you´d better shoot back. I see no difference.
 

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Anyway, it's pretty obvious the article was written by someone who is anti-gay, and NOT just someone who's against gays serving in the military. The part about bisexuals gives him away as well. He's prejudiced, plain and simple!
 
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Anyway, it's pretty obvious the article was written by someone who is anti-gay, and NOT just someone who's against gays serving in the military. The part about bisexuals gives him away as well. He's prejudiced, plain and simple!

Yawn...

Or these 4 highly decorated and experienced military leaders know
more about running the military than everyone in this forum
combined.

@)
 

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sounds like someone in here may be insecure about their sexual orientation - most homophobes are
 

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"Yawn...
Or these 4 highly decorated and experienced military leaders know more about running the military than everyone in this forum combined."


And if 4 more highly decorated and experienced military leaders penned a different opinion would you have posted it?
 
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sounds like someone in here may be insecure about their sexual orientation - most homophobes are

Yawn... same old lame rhetoric. Anyone that is against gay
marriage or gays in the military is a homophobe?

Every single major religion in the history of the world has considered
homosexuality to be immoral, I guess they are all homophobes too?

I think I'll start calling all the Christian haters on here
Christianphobes, because they must be closet Christians right?

:ohno:
 
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"Yawn...
Or these 4 highly decorated and experienced military leaders know more about running the military than everyone in this forum combined."


And if 4 more highly decorated and experienced military leaders penned a different opinion would you have posted it?

I'm sure one of the leftists on here would beat me to it.
 

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And some that think that homosexuality is a normally occurring phenomenon and Christianity is a learned belief.
 
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And some that think that homosexuality is a normally occurring phenomenon and Christianity is a learned belief.

Um, Christianity is a learned belief, what else could it be?

Another brilliant post by Punter.

:ohno:
 

Honey Badger Don't Give A Shit
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Anyway, it's pretty obvious the article was written by someone who is anti-gay, and NOT just someone who's against gays serving in the military. The part about bisexuals gives him away as well. He's prejudiced, plain and simple!

Ayuh...never gets old reading or hearing the homophobic views of this or that curmudgeon who honestly thinks that no one in his own family tree is homoseuxal.
 

Honey Badger Don't Give A Shit
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sounds like someone in here may be insecure about their sexual orientation - most homophobes are

It's certainly clear that some people feel very threatened by the existence of homosexuals and work hard to marginalize them in any way possible.

Meanwhile, the tens of millions of gay North Americans (among others) rock along, singing a song and doing their best to get through life despite the obstacles thrown in their way by those who are scared silly.
 

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