What was the date of Noah’s Flood?
Quick-read this article:
According to the Jewish historian Josephus, Irish archbishop and chronologist James Ussher, Bible historians and most conservative Christian scholars, the Flood of Noah's time occurred between 2500 <SMALL>BC</SMALL> and 2300 <SMALL>BC</SMALL>.
First century Jewish historian Flavius Josephus used manuscripts available during his time to calculate that Noah's Flood occurred 1556 years after the creation of Adam. By adding the ages of the patriarchs listed in the Bible, other scholars have come up with roughly similar dates.
(We must point out though, that according to the King James Version of the Bible, the Flood was 1656 years after Creation, which is regarded as more accurate than Josephus's dates.)
Irish archbishop James Ussher calculated that the creation of the world took place in 4004 <SMALL>BC</SMALL>. If 1656 is deducted from 4004 then the worldwide flood of Noah's time was around 2348 <SMALL>BC</SMALL> (if both chronologies are correct; but please note that there is some disagreement even among conservative Bible believers on these dates).
Josephus, Ussher, and other scholars disagree slightly on some of their dates. But most agree that a straightforward reading of the Bible indicates the Deluge must have taken place in the third millennium before the birth of Jesus Christ — probably between 2500 <SMALL>BC</SMALL> and 2300 <SMALL>BC</SMALL>.
Evolution problems
The widely accepted evolutionary history of the world, however, theorizes that a common ancestor of humans and apes existed around 10 million years ago. Modern humans, according to the evolutionary theory, came on the scene around one million years ago. There is no indisputable fossil evidence of the many alleged missing links in human evolution of course, including the hypothetical common ancestor from which humans and apes supposedly evolved.
An interesting area of support for the biblical date comes from the study of population statistics. Dr. Henry Morris put it this way in his book The Bible Has the Answer (Creation-Life Publishers, PO Box 15908, San Diego, California 92115, USA):
Here are the years from the creation of Adam (the first man) until the Deluge (Noah's Flood):
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=300 bgColor=#ffffff summary="This table holds an article about the date of Noah's FLood"><TBODY><TR><TD class=tabletext>Patriarch's name</TD><TD class=tabletext>Years before son's birth</TD></TR><TR><TD> </TD><TD> </TD></TR><TR><TD class=tabletext> Adam</TD><TD class=tabletext> 130</TD></TR><TR><TD class=tabletext> Seth</TD><TD class=tabletext> 105</TD></TR><TR><TD class=tabletext> Enos</TD><TD class=tabletext> 90</TD></TR><TR><TD class=tabletext> Cainan</TD><TD class=tabletext> 70</TD></TR><TR><TD class=tabletext> Maleleel</TD><TD class=tabletext> 65</TD></TR><TR><TD class=tabletext> Jared</TD><TD class=tabletext> 162</TD></TR><TR><TD class=tabletext> Enoch</TD><TD class=tabletext> 65</TD></TR><TR><TD class=tabletext> Mathusela</TD><TD class=tabletext> 187</TD></TR><TR><TD class=tabletext> Lamech</TD><TD class=tabletext> 182</TD></TR><TR><TD class=tabletext> Noah</TD><TD class=tabletext> 600</TD></TR><TR><TD class=tabletext> To the Deluge</TD><TD class=tabletext>1656</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
Related topic:
Quick-read this article:
According to the Jewish historian Josephus, Irish archbishop and chronologist James Ussher, Bible historians and most conservative Christian scholars, the Flood of Noah's time occurred between 2500 <SMALL>BC</SMALL> and 2300 <SMALL>BC</SMALL>.
(We must point out though, that according to the King James Version of the Bible, the Flood was 1656 years after Creation, which is regarded as more accurate than Josephus's dates.)
Irish archbishop James Ussher calculated that the creation of the world took place in 4004 <SMALL>BC</SMALL>. If 1656 is deducted from 4004 then the worldwide flood of Noah's time was around 2348 <SMALL>BC</SMALL> (if both chronologies are correct; but please note that there is some disagreement even among conservative Bible believers on these dates).
Josephus, Ussher, and other scholars disagree slightly on some of their dates. But most agree that a straightforward reading of the Bible indicates the Deluge must have taken place in the third millennium before the birth of Jesus Christ — probably between 2500 <SMALL>BC</SMALL> and 2300 <SMALL>BC</SMALL>.
Evolution problems
The widely accepted evolutionary history of the world, however, theorizes that a common ancestor of humans and apes existed around 10 million years ago. Modern humans, according to the evolutionary theory, came on the scene around one million years ago. There is no indisputable fossil evidence of the many alleged missing links in human evolution of course, including the hypothetical common ancestor from which humans and apes supposedly evolved.
An interesting area of support for the biblical date comes from the study of population statistics. Dr. Henry Morris put it this way in his book The Bible Has the Answer (Creation-Life Publishers, PO Box 15908, San Diego, California 92115, USA):
The human population must have started originally from the first pair, and the question is whether that pair was Noah and his wife 4,300 years ago (the time of the worldwide Flood according to the Ussher chronology of the Bible) or the first “dawn-man” and his mate a million years ago.
The present rate of population increase in the world is more than two per cent per year, and the population is now over four billion. [This figure was correct when Dr. Morris wrote this. The figure is now much higher. — Creation Tips editor.] However, the average rate would only have to be one half of one per cent per year to produce the present world population in 4,300 years.
To put it another way, an average family size of only 2.5 children per family would suffice to develop the present population in just the length of time since Noah, even with an average life-span of only about 40 years per person. These figures are very reasonable, and in fact extremely conservative, showing that the Bible chronology is quite plausible in every way.
On the other hand, this same very conservative rate of population growth (only one fourth what it is at present), if continued for a million years, would have produced a present population infinitely greater than could be packed into every cubic foot of the entire universe! This fact alone argues that the supposed million-year history of man on the earth is completely absurd, whereas the Biblical chronology is perfectly reasonable …
Even if, by some miracle, the population growth rates were slowed down sufficiently to produce a population of only the present figure of three billion people after one million years of human life on earth, this would still mean that over 3,000 billion individual people had lived and died during that period of time. It is therefore strange that it is so difficult to find human fossils! It would seem rather that human remains ought to be extremely abundant everywhere. And this should be even more true of the pre-human ape-men that were supposedly evolving into men during 60 or 70 million years of pre-history.
Here are the years from the creation of Adam (the first man) until the Deluge (Noah's Flood):
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=300 bgColor=#ffffff summary="This table holds an article about the date of Noah's FLood"><TBODY><TR><TD class=tabletext>Patriarch's name</TD><TD class=tabletext>Years before son's birth</TD></TR><TR><TD> </TD><TD> </TD></TR><TR><TD class=tabletext> Adam</TD><TD class=tabletext> 130</TD></TR><TR><TD class=tabletext> Seth</TD><TD class=tabletext> 105</TD></TR><TR><TD class=tabletext> Enos</TD><TD class=tabletext> 90</TD></TR><TR><TD class=tabletext> Cainan</TD><TD class=tabletext> 70</TD></TR><TR><TD class=tabletext> Maleleel</TD><TD class=tabletext> 65</TD></TR><TR><TD class=tabletext> Jared</TD><TD class=tabletext> 162</TD></TR><TR><TD class=tabletext> Enoch</TD><TD class=tabletext> 65</TD></TR><TR><TD class=tabletext> Mathusela</TD><TD class=tabletext> 187</TD></TR><TR><TD class=tabletext> Lamech</TD><TD class=tabletext> 182</TD></TR><TR><TD class=tabletext> Noah</TD><TD class=tabletext> 600</TD></TR><TR><TD class=tabletext> To the Deluge</TD><TD class=tabletext>1656</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
Related topic:
So dinosaurs were around around the time of the building of the great pyraminds come on rail even you cant believe that.
Wait a second Rail I think your on to something here thats the mystery of how they built the pyramids of course it makes perfect sense now they used the dinosaurs to help buid them
Mystery sloved thanks to Rail and his bible
Wait a second Rail I think your on to something here thats the mystery of how they built the pyramids of course it makes perfect sense now they used the dinosaurs to help buid them
Mystery sloved thanks to Rail and his bible
<TABLE class=tborder style="BORDER-TOP-WIDTH: 0px" cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=6 width="100%" align=center border=0><TBODY><TR title="Post 6104212" vAlign=top><TD class=alt2 align=middle width=125>steak tartar</TD><TD class=alt1>Quote:
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">Originally Posted by Railbird
was about 4358 years ago, that is also when the dinosaurs were wiped out
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
:wierdo: </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
CLOSE RAIL- YOURE ONLY ABOUT 60 MILLION YEARS OFF... :nohead:
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">Originally Posted by Railbird
was about 4358 years ago, that is also when the dinosaurs were wiped out
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
:wierdo: </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
CLOSE RAIL- YOURE ONLY ABOUT 60 MILLION YEARS OFF... :nohead:
A global flood would have produce evidence contrary to the evidence we see.
How do you explain the relative ages of mountains? For example, why weren't the Sierra Nevadas eroded as much as the Appalachians during the Flood?
Why is there no evidence of a flood in ice core series? Ice cores from Greenland have been dated back more than 40,000 years by counting annual layers. [Johnsen et al, 1992,; Alley et al, 1993] A worldwide flood would be expected to leave a layer of sediments, noticeable changes in salinity and oxygen isotope ratios, fractures from buoyancy and thermal stresses, a hiatus in trapped air bubbles, and probably other evidence. Why doesn't such evidence show up?
How are the polar ice caps even possible? Such a mass of water as the Flood would have provided sufficient buoyancy to float the polar caps off their beds and break them up. They wouldn't regrow quickly. In fact, the Greenland ice cap would not regrow under modern (last 10 ky) climatic conditions.
Why did the Flood not leave traces on the sea floors? A year long flood should be recognizable in sea bottom cores by (1) an uncharacteristic amount of terrestrial detritus, (2) different grain size distributions in the sediment, (3) a shift in oxygen isotope ratios (rain has a different isotopic composition from seawater), (4) a massive extinction, and
other characters. Why do none of these show up?
Why is there no evidence of a flood in tree ring dating? Tree ring records go back more than 10,000 years, with no evidence of a catastrophe during that time. [Becker & Kromer, 1993; Becker et al, 1991; Stuiver et al, 1986]
References
Alley, R. B., D. A. Meese, C. A. Shuman, A. J. Gow, K.C. Taylor, P. M. Grootes, J. W. C. White, M. Ram, E. W. Waddington, P. A. Mayewski, & G. A. Zielinski, 1993. Abrupt increase in Greenland snow accumulation at the end of the Younger Dryas event. Nature 362: 527-529.
Becker, B. & Kromer, B., 1993. The continental tree-ring record - absolute chronology, C-14 calibration and climatic-change at 11 KA. Palaeogeography Palaeoclimatology Palaeoecology, 103 (1-2): 67-71.
Becker, B., Kromer, B. & Trimborn, P., 1991. A stable-isotope tree-ring timescale of the late glacial Holocene boundary. Nature 353 (6345): 647-649.
Johnsen, S. J., H. B. Clausen, W. Dansgaard, K. Fuhrer, N. Gundestrap, C. U. Hammer, P. Iversen, J. Jouzel, B. Stauffer, & J. P. Steffensen, 1992. Irregular glacial interstadials recorded in a new Greenland ice core. Nature 359: 311-313.
Stuiver, Minze, et al, 1986. Radiocarbon age calibration back to 13,300 years BP and the 14 C age matching of the German Oak and US bristlecone pine chronologies. IN: Calibration issue / Stuiver, Minze, et al., Radiocarbon 28(2B): 969-979.
7. Producing the Geological Record
Most people who believe in a global flood also believe that the flood was responsible for creating all fossil-bearing strata. (The alternative, that the strata were laid down slowly and thus represent a time sequence of several generations at least, would prove that some kind of evolutionary process occurred.) However, there is a great deal of contrary evidence.
Before you argue that fossil evidence was dated and interpreted to meet evolutionary assumptions, remember that the geological column and the relative dates therein were laid out by people who believed divine creation, before Darwin even formulated his theory. (See, for example, Moore [1973], or the closing pages of Dawson [1868].)
Why are geological eras consistent worldwide? How do you explain worldwide agreement between "apparent" geological eras and several different (independent) radiometric and nonradiometric dating methods? [e.g., Short et al, 1991]
How was the fossil record sorted in an order convenient for evolution? Ecological zonation, hydrodynamic sorting, and differential escape fail to explain:
How does a global flood explain angular unconformities? These are where one set of layers of sediments have been extensively modified (e.g., tilted) and eroded before a second set of layers were deposited on top. They thus seem to require at least two periods of deposition (more, where there is more than one unconformity) with long periods of time in between to account for the deformation, erosion, and weathering observed.
How were mountains and valleys formed? Many very tall mountains are composed of sedimentary rocks. (The summit of Everest is composed of deep-marine limestone, with fossils of ocean-bottom dwelling crinoids [Gansser, 1964].) If these were formed during the Flood, how did they reach their present height, and when were the valleys between them eroded away? Keep in mind that many valleys were clearly carved by glacial erosion, which is a slow process.
When did granite batholiths form? Some of these are intruded into older sediments and have younger sediments on their eroded top surfaces. It takes a long time for magma to cool into granite, nor does granite erode very quickly. [For example, see Donohoe & Grantham, 1989, for locations of contact between the South Mountain Batholith and the Meugma Group of sediments, as well as some angular unconformities.]
How can a single flood be responsible for such extensively detailed layering? One formation in New Jersey is six kilometers thick. If we grant 400 days for this to settle, and ignore possible compaction since the Flood, we still have 15 meters of sediment settling per day. And yet despite this, the chemical properties of the rock are neatly layered, with great changes (e.g.) in percent carbonate occurring within a few centimeters in the vertical direction. How does such a neat sorting process occur in the violent context of a universal flood dropping 15 meters of sediment per day? How can you explain a thin layer of high carbonate sediment being deposited over an area of ten thousand square kilometers for some thirty minutes, followed by thirty minutes of low carbonate deposition, etc.? [Zimmer, 1992]
How do you explain the formation of varves? The Green River formation in Wyoming contains 20,000,000 annual layers, or varves, identical to those being laid down today in certain lakes. The sediments are so fine that each layer would have required over a month to settle.
How could a flood deposit layered fossil forests? Stratigraphic sections showing a dozen or more mature forests layered atop each other--all with upright trunks, in-place roots, and well-developed soil--appear in many locations. One example, the Joggins section along the Bay of Fundy, shows a continuous section 2750 meters thick (along a 48-km sea cliff) with multiple in-place forests, some separated by hundreds of feet of strata, some even showing evidence of forest fires. [Ferguson, 1988. For other examples, see Dawson, 1868; Cristie & McMillan, 1991; Gastaldo, 1990; Yuretich, 1994.] Creationists point to logs sinking in a lake below Mt. St. Helens as an example of how a flood can deposit vertical trunks, but deposition by flood fails to explain the roots, the soil, the layering, and other features found in such places.
Where did all the heat go? If the geologic record was deposited in a year, then the events it records must also have occurred within a year. Some of these events release significant amounts of heat.
Aside from losing its atmosphere, Earth can only get rid of heat by radiating it to space, and it can't radiate significantly more heat than it gets from the sun unless it is a great deal hotter than it is now. (It is very nearly at thermal equilibrium now.) If there weren't many millions of years to radiate the heat from the above processes, the earth would still be unlivably hot.
As shown in section 5, all the mechanisms proposed for causing the Flood already provide more than enough energy to vaporize it as well. These additional factors only make the heat problem worse.
How were limestone deposits formed? Much limestone is made of the skeletons of zillions of microscopic sea animals. Some deposits are thousands of meters thick. Were all those animals alive when the Flood started? If not, how do you explain the well-ordered sequence of fossils in the deposits? Roughly 1.5 x 10<SUP>15</SUP> grams of calcium carbonate are deposited on the ocean floor each year. [Poldervaart, 1955] A deposition rate ten times as high for 5000 years before the Flood would still only account for less than 0.02% of limestone deposits.
How could a flood have deposited chalk? Chalk is largely made up of the bodies of plankton 700 to 1000 angstroms in diameter [Bignot, 1985]. Objects this small settle at a rate of .0000154 mm/sec. [Twenhofel, 1961] In a year of the Flood, they could have settled about half a meter.
How could the Flood deposit layers of solid salt? Such layers are sometimes meters in width, interbedded with sediments containing marine fossils. This apparently occurs when a body of salt water has its fresh-water intake cut off, and then evaporates. These layers can occur more or less at random times in the geological history, and have characteristic fossils on either side. Therefore, if the fossils were themselves laid down during a catastrophic flood, there are, it seems, only two choices:
(1) the salt layers were themselves laid down at the same time, during the heavy rains that began the flooding, or
(2) the salt is a later intrusion. I suspect that both will prove insuperable difficulties for a theory of flood deposition of the geologic column and its fossils. [Jackson et al, 1990]
How were sedimentary deposits recrystallized and plastically deformed in the short time since the Flood? The stretched pebble conglomerate in Death Valley National Monument (Wildrose Canyon Rd., 15 mi. south of Hwy. 190), for example, contains streambed pebbles metamorphosed to quartzite and stretched to 3 or more times their original length. Plastically deformed stone is also common around salt diapirs [Jackson et al, 1990].
How were hematite layers laid down? Standard theory is that they were laid down before Earth's atmosphere contained much oxygen. In an oxygen-rich regime, they would almost certainly be impossible.
How do you explain fossil mineralization? Mineralization is the replacement of the original material with a different mineral.
How does a flood explain the accuracy of "coral clocks"? The moon is slowly sapping the earth's rotational energy. The earth should have rotated more quickly in the distant past, meaning that a day would have been less than 24 hours, and there would have been more days per year. Corals can be dated by the number of "daily" growth layers per "annual" growth layer. Devonian corals, for example, show nearly 400 days per year. There is an exceedingly strong correlation between the "supposed age" of a wide range of fossils (corals, stromatolites, and a few others -- collected from geologic formations throughout the column and from locations all over the world) and the number of days per year that their growth pattern shows. The agreement between these clocks, and radiometric dating, and the theory of superposition is a little hard to explain away as the result of a number of unlucky coincidences in a 300-day-long flood. [Rosenberg & Runcorn, 1975; Scrutton, 1965; Wells, 1963]
Where were all the fossilized animals when they were alive? Schadewald [1982] writes:
Even if there was room physically for all the large animals which now exist only as fossils, how could they have all coexisted in a stable ecology before the Flood? Montana alone would have had to support a diversity of herbivores orders of magnitude larger than anything now observed.
Where did all the organic material in the fossil record come from? There are 1.16 x 10<SUP>13</SUP> metric tons of coal reserves, and at least 100 times that much unrecoverable organic matter in sediments. A typical forest, even if it covered the entire earth, would supply only 1.9 x 10<SUP>13</SUP> metric tons. [Ricklefs, 1993, p. 149]
How do you explain the relative commonness of aquatic fossils? A flood would have washed over everything equally, so terrestrial organisms should be roughly as abundant as aquatic ones (or more abundant, since Creationists hypothesize greater land area before the Flood) in the fossil record. Yet shallow marine environments account for by far the most fossils.
How do you explain the relative ages of mountains? For example, why weren't the Sierra Nevadas eroded as much as the Appalachians during the Flood?
Why is there no evidence of a flood in ice core series? Ice cores from Greenland have been dated back more than 40,000 years by counting annual layers. [Johnsen et al, 1992,; Alley et al, 1993] A worldwide flood would be expected to leave a layer of sediments, noticeable changes in salinity and oxygen isotope ratios, fractures from buoyancy and thermal stresses, a hiatus in trapped air bubbles, and probably other evidence. Why doesn't such evidence show up?
How are the polar ice caps even possible? Such a mass of water as the Flood would have provided sufficient buoyancy to float the polar caps off their beds and break them up. They wouldn't regrow quickly. In fact, the Greenland ice cap would not regrow under modern (last 10 ky) climatic conditions.
Why did the Flood not leave traces on the sea floors? A year long flood should be recognizable in sea bottom cores by (1) an uncharacteristic amount of terrestrial detritus, (2) different grain size distributions in the sediment, (3) a shift in oxygen isotope ratios (rain has a different isotopic composition from seawater), (4) a massive extinction, and
other characters. Why do none of these show up?Why is there no evidence of a flood in tree ring dating? Tree ring records go back more than 10,000 years, with no evidence of a catastrophe during that time. [Becker & Kromer, 1993; Becker et al, 1991; Stuiver et al, 1986]
References
Alley, R. B., D. A. Meese, C. A. Shuman, A. J. Gow, K.C. Taylor, P. M. Grootes, J. W. C. White, M. Ram, E. W. Waddington, P. A. Mayewski, & G. A. Zielinski, 1993. Abrupt increase in Greenland snow accumulation at the end of the Younger Dryas event. Nature 362: 527-529.
Becker, B. & Kromer, B., 1993. The continental tree-ring record - absolute chronology, C-14 calibration and climatic-change at 11 KA. Palaeogeography Palaeoclimatology Palaeoecology, 103 (1-2): 67-71.
Becker, B., Kromer, B. & Trimborn, P., 1991. A stable-isotope tree-ring timescale of the late glacial Holocene boundary. Nature 353 (6345): 647-649.
Johnsen, S. J., H. B. Clausen, W. Dansgaard, K. Fuhrer, N. Gundestrap, C. U. Hammer, P. Iversen, J. Jouzel, B. Stauffer, & J. P. Steffensen, 1992. Irregular glacial interstadials recorded in a new Greenland ice core. Nature 359: 311-313.
Stuiver, Minze, et al, 1986. Radiocarbon age calibration back to 13,300 years BP and the 14 C age matching of the German Oak and US bristlecone pine chronologies. IN: Calibration issue / Stuiver, Minze, et al., Radiocarbon 28(2B): 969-979.
7. Producing the Geological Record
Most people who believe in a global flood also believe that the flood was responsible for creating all fossil-bearing strata. (The alternative, that the strata were laid down slowly and thus represent a time sequence of several generations at least, would prove that some kind of evolutionary process occurred.) However, there is a great deal of contrary evidence.
Before you argue that fossil evidence was dated and interpreted to meet evolutionary assumptions, remember that the geological column and the relative dates therein were laid out by people who believed divine creation, before Darwin even formulated his theory. (See, for example, Moore [1973], or the closing pages of Dawson [1868].)
Why are geological eras consistent worldwide? How do you explain worldwide agreement between "apparent" geological eras and several different (independent) radiometric and nonradiometric dating methods? [e.g., Short et al, 1991]
How was the fossil record sorted in an order convenient for evolution? Ecological zonation, hydrodynamic sorting, and differential escape fail to explain:
- the extremely good sorting observed. Why didn't at least one dinosaur make it to the high ground with the elephants?
- the relative positions of plants and other non-motile life. (Yun, 1989, describes beautifully preserved algae from Late Precambrian sediments. Why don't any modern-looking plants appear that low in the geological column?)
- why some groups of organisms, such as mollusks, are found in many geologic strata.
- why organisms (such as brachiopods) which are very similar hydrodynamically (all nearly the same size, shape, and weight) are still perfectly sorted.
- why extinct animals which lived in the same niches as present animals didn't survive as well. Why did no pterodons make it to high ground?
- how coral reefs hundreds of feet thick and miles long were preserved intact with other fossils below them.
- why small organisms dominate the lower strata, whereas fluid mechanics says they would sink slower and thus end up in upper strata.
- why artifacts such as footprints and burrows are also sorted. [Crimes & Droser, 1992]
- why no human artifacts are found except in the very uppermost strata. If, at the time of the Flood, the earth was overpopulated by people with technology for shipbuilding, why were none of their tools or buildings mixed with trilobite or dinosaur fossils?
- why different parts of the same organisms are sorted together. Pollen and spores are found in association with the trunks, leaves, branches, and roots produced by the same plants [Stewart, 1983].
- why ecological information is consistent within but not between layers. Fossil pollen is one of the more important indicators of different levels of strata. Each plant has different and distinct pollen, and, by telling which plants produced the fossil pollen, it is easy to see what the climate was like in different strata. Was the pollen hydraulically sorted by the flood water so that the climatic evidence is different for each layer?
- Rain drops. [Robb, 1992]
- River channels. [Miall, 1996, especially chpt. 6]
- Wind-blown dunes. [Kocurek & Dott, 1981; Clemmenson & Abrahamsen, 1983; Hubert & Mertz, 1984]
- Beaches.
- Glacial deposits. [Eyles & Miall, 1984]
- Burrows. [Crimes & Droser, 1992; Thackray, 1994]
- In-place trees. [Cristie & McMillan, 1991]
- Soil. [Reinhardt & Sigleo, 1989; Wright, 1986, 1994]
- Desiccation cracks. [Andrews, 1988; Robb, 1992]
- Footprints. [Gore, 1993, has a photograph (p. 16-17) showing dinosaur footprints in one layer with water ripples in layers above and below it. Gilette & Lockley, 1989, have several more examples, including dinosaur footprints on top of a coal seam (p. 361-366).]
- Meteorites and meteor craters. [Grieve, 1997; Schmitz et al, 1997]
- Coral reefs. [Wilson, 1975]
- Cave systems. [James & Choquette, 1988]
How does a global flood explain angular unconformities? These are where one set of layers of sediments have been extensively modified (e.g., tilted) and eroded before a second set of layers were deposited on top. They thus seem to require at least two periods of deposition (more, where there is more than one unconformity) with long periods of time in between to account for the deformation, erosion, and weathering observed.
How were mountains and valleys formed? Many very tall mountains are composed of sedimentary rocks. (The summit of Everest is composed of deep-marine limestone, with fossils of ocean-bottom dwelling crinoids [Gansser, 1964].) If these were formed during the Flood, how did they reach their present height, and when were the valleys between them eroded away? Keep in mind that many valleys were clearly carved by glacial erosion, which is a slow process.
When did granite batholiths form? Some of these are intruded into older sediments and have younger sediments on their eroded top surfaces. It takes a long time for magma to cool into granite, nor does granite erode very quickly. [For example, see Donohoe & Grantham, 1989, for locations of contact between the South Mountain Batholith and the Meugma Group of sediments, as well as some angular unconformities.]
How can a single flood be responsible for such extensively detailed layering? One formation in New Jersey is six kilometers thick. If we grant 400 days for this to settle, and ignore possible compaction since the Flood, we still have 15 meters of sediment settling per day. And yet despite this, the chemical properties of the rock are neatly layered, with great changes (e.g.) in percent carbonate occurring within a few centimeters in the vertical direction. How does such a neat sorting process occur in the violent context of a universal flood dropping 15 meters of sediment per day? How can you explain a thin layer of high carbonate sediment being deposited over an area of ten thousand square kilometers for some thirty minutes, followed by thirty minutes of low carbonate deposition, etc.? [Zimmer, 1992]
How do you explain the formation of varves? The Green River formation in Wyoming contains 20,000,000 annual layers, or varves, identical to those being laid down today in certain lakes. The sediments are so fine that each layer would have required over a month to settle.
How could a flood deposit layered fossil forests? Stratigraphic sections showing a dozen or more mature forests layered atop each other--all with upright trunks, in-place roots, and well-developed soil--appear in many locations. One example, the Joggins section along the Bay of Fundy, shows a continuous section 2750 meters thick (along a 48-km sea cliff) with multiple in-place forests, some separated by hundreds of feet of strata, some even showing evidence of forest fires. [Ferguson, 1988. For other examples, see Dawson, 1868; Cristie & McMillan, 1991; Gastaldo, 1990; Yuretich, 1994.] Creationists point to logs sinking in a lake below Mt. St. Helens as an example of how a flood can deposit vertical trunks, but deposition by flood fails to explain the roots, the soil, the layering, and other features found in such places.
Where did all the heat go? If the geologic record was deposited in a year, then the events it records must also have occurred within a year. Some of these events release significant amounts of heat.
- Magma. The geologic record includes roughly 8 x 10<SUP>24</SUP> grams of lava flows and igneous intrusions. Assuming (conservatively) a specific heat of 0.15, this magma would release 5.4 x 10<SUP>27</SUP> joules while cooling 1100 degrees C. In addition, the heat of crystallization as the magma solidifies would release a great deal more heat.
- Limestone formation. There are roughly 5 x 10<SUP>23</SUP> grams of limestone in the earth's sediments [Poldervaart, 1955], and the formation of calcite releases about 11,290 joules/gram [Weast, 1974, p. D63]. If only 10% of the limestone were formed during the Flood, the 5.6 x 10<SUP>26</SUP> joules of heat released would be enough to boil the flood waters.
- Meteorite impacts. Erosion and crustal movements have erased an unknown number of impact craters on earth, but Creationists Whitcomb and DeYoung suggest that cratering to the extent seen on the Moon and Mercury occurred on earth during the year of Noah's Flood. The heat from just one of the largest lunar impacts released an estimated 3 x 10<SUP>26</SUP> joules; the same sized object falling to earth would release even more energy. [Fezer, pp. 45-46]
- Other. Other possibly significant heat sources are radioactive decay (some Creationists claim that radioactive decay rates were much higher during the Flood to account for consistently old radiometric dates); biological decay (think of the heat released in compost piles); and compression of sediments.
Aside from losing its atmosphere, Earth can only get rid of heat by radiating it to space, and it can't radiate significantly more heat than it gets from the sun unless it is a great deal hotter than it is now. (It is very nearly at thermal equilibrium now.) If there weren't many millions of years to radiate the heat from the above processes, the earth would still be unlivably hot.
As shown in section 5, all the mechanisms proposed for causing the Flood already provide more than enough energy to vaporize it as well. These additional factors only make the heat problem worse.
How were limestone deposits formed? Much limestone is made of the skeletons of zillions of microscopic sea animals. Some deposits are thousands of meters thick. Were all those animals alive when the Flood started? If not, how do you explain the well-ordered sequence of fossils in the deposits? Roughly 1.5 x 10<SUP>15</SUP> grams of calcium carbonate are deposited on the ocean floor each year. [Poldervaart, 1955] A deposition rate ten times as high for 5000 years before the Flood would still only account for less than 0.02% of limestone deposits.
How could a flood have deposited chalk? Chalk is largely made up of the bodies of plankton 700 to 1000 angstroms in diameter [Bignot, 1985]. Objects this small settle at a rate of .0000154 mm/sec. [Twenhofel, 1961] In a year of the Flood, they could have settled about half a meter.
How could the Flood deposit layers of solid salt? Such layers are sometimes meters in width, interbedded with sediments containing marine fossils. This apparently occurs when a body of salt water has its fresh-water intake cut off, and then evaporates. These layers can occur more or less at random times in the geological history, and have characteristic fossils on either side. Therefore, if the fossils were themselves laid down during a catastrophic flood, there are, it seems, only two choices:
(1) the salt layers were themselves laid down at the same time, during the heavy rains that began the flooding, or
(2) the salt is a later intrusion. I suspect that both will prove insuperable difficulties for a theory of flood deposition of the geologic column and its fossils. [Jackson et al, 1990]
How were sedimentary deposits recrystallized and plastically deformed in the short time since the Flood? The stretched pebble conglomerate in Death Valley National Monument (Wildrose Canyon Rd., 15 mi. south of Hwy. 190), for example, contains streambed pebbles metamorphosed to quartzite and stretched to 3 or more times their original length. Plastically deformed stone is also common around salt diapirs [Jackson et al, 1990].
How were hematite layers laid down? Standard theory is that they were laid down before Earth's atmosphere contained much oxygen. In an oxygen-rich regime, they would almost certainly be impossible.
How do you explain fossil mineralization? Mineralization is the replacement of the original material with a different mineral.
- Buried skeletal remains of modern fauna are negligibly mineralized, including some that biblical archaeology says are quite old - a substantial fraction of the age of the earth in this diluvian geology. For example, remains of Egyptian commoners buried near the time of Moses aren't extensively mineralized.
- Buried skeletal remains of extinct mammalian fauna show quite variable mineralization.
- Dinosaur remains are often extensively mineralized.
- Trilobite remains are usually mineralized - and in different sites, fossils of the same species are composed of different materials.
How does a flood explain the accuracy of "coral clocks"? The moon is slowly sapping the earth's rotational energy. The earth should have rotated more quickly in the distant past, meaning that a day would have been less than 24 hours, and there would have been more days per year. Corals can be dated by the number of "daily" growth layers per "annual" growth layer. Devonian corals, for example, show nearly 400 days per year. There is an exceedingly strong correlation between the "supposed age" of a wide range of fossils (corals, stromatolites, and a few others -- collected from geologic formations throughout the column and from locations all over the world) and the number of days per year that their growth pattern shows. The agreement between these clocks, and radiometric dating, and the theory of superposition is a little hard to explain away as the result of a number of unlucky coincidences in a 300-day-long flood. [Rosenberg & Runcorn, 1975; Scrutton, 1965; Wells, 1963]
Where were all the fossilized animals when they were alive? Schadewald [1982] writes:
"Scientific creationists interpret the fossils found in the earth's rocks as the remains of animals that perished in the Noachian Deluge. Ironically, they often cite the sheer number of fossils in 'fossil graveyards' as evidence for the Flood. In particular, creationists seem enamored by the Karroo Formation in Africa, which is estimated to contain the remains of 800 billion vertebrate animals (see Whitcomb and Morris, p. 160; Gish, p. 61). As pseudoscientists, creationists dare not test this major hypothesis that all of the fossilized animals died in the Flood.
"Robert E. Sloan, a paleontologist at the University of Minnesota, has studied the Karroo Formation. He asserts that the animals fossilized there range from the size of a small lizard to the size of a cow, with the average animal perhaps the size of a fox. A minute's work with a calculator shows that, if the 800 billion animals in the Karoo formation could be resurrected, there would be twenty-one of them for every acre of land on earth. Suppose we assume (conservatively, I think) that the Karroo Formation contains 1 percent of the vertebrate [land] fossils on earth. Then when the Flood began, there must have been at least 2100 living animals per acre, ranging from tiny shrews to immense dinosaurs. To a noncreationist mind, that seems a bit crowded."
A thousand kilometers' length of arctic coastal plain, according to experts in Leningrad, contains about 500,000 tons of tusks. Even assuming that the entire population was preserved, you seem to be saying that Russia had wall-to-wall mammoths before this "event.""Robert E. Sloan, a paleontologist at the University of Minnesota, has studied the Karroo Formation. He asserts that the animals fossilized there range from the size of a small lizard to the size of a cow, with the average animal perhaps the size of a fox. A minute's work with a calculator shows that, if the 800 billion animals in the Karoo formation could be resurrected, there would be twenty-one of them for every acre of land on earth. Suppose we assume (conservatively, I think) that the Karroo Formation contains 1 percent of the vertebrate [land] fossils on earth. Then when the Flood began, there must have been at least 2100 living animals per acre, ranging from tiny shrews to immense dinosaurs. To a noncreationist mind, that seems a bit crowded."
Even if there was room physically for all the large animals which now exist only as fossils, how could they have all coexisted in a stable ecology before the Flood? Montana alone would have had to support a diversity of herbivores orders of magnitude larger than anything now observed.
Where did all the organic material in the fossil record come from? There are 1.16 x 10<SUP>13</SUP> metric tons of coal reserves, and at least 100 times that much unrecoverable organic matter in sediments. A typical forest, even if it covered the entire earth, would supply only 1.9 x 10<SUP>13</SUP> metric tons. [Ricklefs, 1993, p. 149]
How do you explain the relative commonness of aquatic fossils? A flood would have washed over everything equally, so terrestrial organisms should be roughly as abundant as aquatic ones (or more abundant, since Creationists hypothesize greater land area before the Flood) in the fossil record. Yet shallow marine environments account for by far the most fossils.
You mean The Flood where God murdered every man, woman and baby on Planet Earth (save for a lucky eight who would then commit incesteous sex for generations in order to repopulate the planet)?
Not sure...Everyone from that time was murdered by God and the remaining eight likely told whatever story God instructed them to tell.
That Old Testament God had more muscle than Tony Soprano for making people do shit....
Not sure...Everyone from that time was murdered by God and the remaining eight likely told whatever story God instructed them to tell.
That Old Testament God had more muscle than Tony Soprano for making people do shit....
I read a book that explains when that meteor hit it caused the axis of the earth to move 23 1/2 degrees to where it is now. There are phenomena all over the world that show how huge boulders were thrust up on mountain tops and the book I read explains that it occurred during the time of the meteor hitting. Of course, that also explains the extinction of much of the dinosaurs.
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<!-- if no answer, let the user know how to contribute --><!-- display answer --><!-- google_ad_section_start -->ANSWER
Let's begin in Chapter 5, where we read in verse 3, "And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, after his image; and called his name Seth:" (Genesis 5:3). So far we have 130 years from the creation of the world. In verse 6 we read: "And Seth lived an hundred and five years, and begat Enos:" (Genesis 5:6). Now we are in the year 235 (130 for Adam and 105 for Seth).
In verse 9 we read: "And Enos lived ninety years, and begat Cainan:" (Genesis 5:9). This makes the year 325 (235 years plus 90 years). In verse 12 we read: "And Cainan lived seventy years, and begat Mahalaleel:" (Genesis 5:12). This adds up to 395 since Creation (325 plus 70). In verse 15 we read: "And Mahalaleel lived sixty and five years, and begat Jared:" (Genesis 5:15). Now we have 460 years since Creation.
Verse 18 talks about Jared's first born: "And Jared lived an hundred sixty and two years, and he begat Enoch:" (Genesis 5:18). This makes a total of 622 years. In verse 21, we find out about Methuselah, Enoch's first child: "And Enoch lived sixty and five years, and begat Methuselah:" (Genesis 5:21). Now we have 687 years. Methuselah has his first child when he is 187 years old: "And Methuselah lived an hundred eighty and seven years, and begat Lamech:" (Genesis 5:25). Now we are in the year 874 since Creation.
Lamech, Methuselah's son, has his own son when he is 182 years old: "And Lamech lived an hundred eighty and two years, and begat a son:" (Genesis 5:28). This makes 1056 years. Who was Lamech's son? "And he called his name Noah, saying, This same shall comfort us concerning our work and toil of our hands, because of the ground which the Lord hath cursed." (Genesis 5:29).
Noah has his first child when he is considerably older than his predecessors: "And Noah was five hundred years old: and Noah begat Shem, Ham, and Japheth." (Genesis 5:32). This makes 1556 years since Creation.
So then when was the flood? The Bible is very clear on this: "In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened." (Genesis 7:11). Therefore, we add another 100 years to our previous total of 1556 years, and this makes the year of the Flood to be 1656 from Creation.
ANSWER
When you look at Noah and his age before the flood and after the flood then 13000 years fits well. 4990 bc the year of the flood Noah was 600 years old, and as god has revealed more truth in these last days , we can see how a day is as a thousand years. 600 of noahs years before the flood as 6000 is the year 10990 + 23 years of judgement is 11013 bc.( Don't have time to explain the 23 years now ) . Noah lived 350 years after the flood. Again adding 3500 years to 4990 comes to 1490 bc. that is important because in 1447 bc The exodus from egypt started and in 1447 that would put moses at 40 years old and arron his brother at 43 and 1490 minus 43 is 1447 bc. , the year of the exodux.Lastly if you take 1490bc and add 2011 ad you will get 3500(back to Noah)(its 3501 but minus 1 for the 0 year between bc and ad) there it is 110013 bc to 2011 ad and then Judgement. 23 and the 43 means judgment look it up in the bible
Read carefully, you will notice that God gives us a clue as to the ages of the patriarchs. Adam was 130 years and had a son in his our image and he called his name Seth. Seth had a son in his own image(read the end of chapter 4 of genesis), when he was 105 then it goes from birth to death of a patriarch until we reach that same clue when LeMech had a son and called him Noah. Add all of these years up and it comes to 6023 or 4990 bc gregorial. God warned Noah to get into the ark 7 days before the flood then sealed him his wife and 3 sons and their wives and all of the animals up in Jesus (the ark), God gives multiple warnings about the first destruction and the second by fire, He also says many times not to be ignorant to the fact that one day is as a thousand years and a thousand years is as a day. He warned Noah 7 days as well as us except bretheren be not ignorant of this one fact 7 days is as 7 thousand years 6023 plus 7000 is 13023 or in our gregorial callender the year 2011. He sealed Noah inside on the 17th day of the second month, which is may 21.
Answer
In the book of Genesis, starting with chapter 5, we see that Adam (the first man) lived 930 years. His son Seth lived 912 years. Seth's son Enosh lived 905 years, and his son Kenan lived 910. Mahalalel, Kenan's son lived 895, and his son, Jared, lived 962. Jared's son Enoch lived 365, Enoch's son, Methuselah lived 969 years and his son Lamech lived 777 years. Lamech's son was Noah, he was around 800 years old at the time of the flood.
Answer
the bible clearly states that in the 2nd month on the 17th day God sealed Noah inside when he was 600 years old. and when Noah was 601 years old in the 2nd month and the 27th day the ground was dry and he went out of the ark. I will work through the dates but others much more versed than I put the flood at 4990bc. exactly 6023 years after creation.
Answer
According to the Biblical chronology it was around 2300 BC, that is around 1700 years after Creation in around 4000 BC. Many of the patriarchs listed above were living at the same time.
Unanswerable question because it never happen.
Answer
Thankfully the presupposition of the questioner is correct, which is why there is so much evidence, even without the Bible, that this event happened. The Bible merely gives a workable chronology from which various dates have been deduced. Even Stephen Jay Gould, the atheist gave credit to Bishop Usher for his scholarship for working out a date similar to the one given above. This was the year 2349BC which Usher arrived at through his study of the Biblical chronology. So, even though Gould most certainly did not share Ushers belief in the Bible as being true, he respected and gave credit to his scholarship.
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Let's begin in Chapter 5, where we read in verse 3, "And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, after his image; and called his name Seth:" (Genesis 5:3). So far we have 130 years from the creation of the world. In verse 6 we read: "And Seth lived an hundred and five years, and begat Enos:" (Genesis 5:6). Now we are in the year 235 (130 for Adam and 105 for Seth).
In verse 9 we read: "And Enos lived ninety years, and begat Cainan:" (Genesis 5:9). This makes the year 325 (235 years plus 90 years). In verse 12 we read: "And Cainan lived seventy years, and begat Mahalaleel:" (Genesis 5:12). This adds up to 395 since Creation (325 plus 70). In verse 15 we read: "And Mahalaleel lived sixty and five years, and begat Jared:" (Genesis 5:15). Now we have 460 years since Creation.
Verse 18 talks about Jared's first born: "And Jared lived an hundred sixty and two years, and he begat Enoch:" (Genesis 5:18). This makes a total of 622 years. In verse 21, we find out about Methuselah, Enoch's first child: "And Enoch lived sixty and five years, and begat Methuselah:" (Genesis 5:21). Now we have 687 years. Methuselah has his first child when he is 187 years old: "And Methuselah lived an hundred eighty and seven years, and begat Lamech:" (Genesis 5:25). Now we are in the year 874 since Creation.
Lamech, Methuselah's son, has his own son when he is 182 years old: "And Lamech lived an hundred eighty and two years, and begat a son:" (Genesis 5:28). This makes 1056 years. Who was Lamech's son? "And he called his name Noah, saying, This same shall comfort us concerning our work and toil of our hands, because of the ground which the Lord hath cursed." (Genesis 5:29).
Noah has his first child when he is considerably older than his predecessors: "And Noah was five hundred years old: and Noah begat Shem, Ham, and Japheth." (Genesis 5:32). This makes 1556 years since Creation.
So then when was the flood? The Bible is very clear on this: "In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened." (Genesis 7:11). Therefore, we add another 100 years to our previous total of 1556 years, and this makes the year of the Flood to be 1656 from Creation.
ANSWER
When you look at Noah and his age before the flood and after the flood then 13000 years fits well. 4990 bc the year of the flood Noah was 600 years old, and as god has revealed more truth in these last days , we can see how a day is as a thousand years. 600 of noahs years before the flood as 6000 is the year 10990 + 23 years of judgement is 11013 bc.( Don't have time to explain the 23 years now ) . Noah lived 350 years after the flood. Again adding 3500 years to 4990 comes to 1490 bc. that is important because in 1447 bc The exodus from egypt started and in 1447 that would put moses at 40 years old and arron his brother at 43 and 1490 minus 43 is 1447 bc. , the year of the exodux.Lastly if you take 1490bc and add 2011 ad you will get 3500(back to Noah)(its 3501 but minus 1 for the 0 year between bc and ad) there it is 110013 bc to 2011 ad and then Judgement. 23 and the 43 means judgment look it up in the bible
Read carefully, you will notice that God gives us a clue as to the ages of the patriarchs. Adam was 130 years and had a son in his our image and he called his name Seth. Seth had a son in his own image(read the end of chapter 4 of genesis), when he was 105 then it goes from birth to death of a patriarch until we reach that same clue when LeMech had a son and called him Noah. Add all of these years up and it comes to 6023 or 4990 bc gregorial. God warned Noah to get into the ark 7 days before the flood then sealed him his wife and 3 sons and their wives and all of the animals up in Jesus (the ark), God gives multiple warnings about the first destruction and the second by fire, He also says many times not to be ignorant to the fact that one day is as a thousand years and a thousand years is as a day. He warned Noah 7 days as well as us except bretheren be not ignorant of this one fact 7 days is as 7 thousand years 6023 plus 7000 is 13023 or in our gregorial callender the year 2011. He sealed Noah inside on the 17th day of the second month, which is may 21.
Answer
In the book of Genesis, starting with chapter 5, we see that Adam (the first man) lived 930 years. His son Seth lived 912 years. Seth's son Enosh lived 905 years, and his son Kenan lived 910. Mahalalel, Kenan's son lived 895, and his son, Jared, lived 962. Jared's son Enoch lived 365, Enoch's son, Methuselah lived 969 years and his son Lamech lived 777 years. Lamech's son was Noah, he was around 800 years old at the time of the flood.
Answer
the bible clearly states that in the 2nd month on the 17th day God sealed Noah inside when he was 600 years old. and when Noah was 601 years old in the 2nd month and the 27th day the ground was dry and he went out of the ark. I will work through the dates but others much more versed than I put the flood at 4990bc. exactly 6023 years after creation.
Answer
According to the Biblical chronology it was around 2300 BC, that is around 1700 years after Creation in around 4000 BC. Many of the patriarchs listed above were living at the same time.
Unanswerable question because it never happen.
Answer
Thankfully the presupposition of the questioner is correct, which is why there is so much evidence, even without the Bible, that this event happened. The Bible merely gives a workable chronology from which various dates have been deduced. Even Stephen Jay Gould, the atheist gave credit to Bishop Usher for his scholarship for working out a date similar to the one given above. This was the year 2349BC which Usher arrived at through his study of the Biblical chronology. So, even though Gould most certainly did not share Ushers belief in the Bible as being true, he respected and gave credit to his scholarship.
<TABLE class=tborder style="BORDER-TOP-WIDTH: 0px" cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=6 width="100%" align=center border=0><TBODY><TR title="Post 6110704" vAlign=top><TD class=alt2 align=middle width=125>Railbird</TD><TD class=alt1>The dinosaurs drowned. There is places where men and dinosaurs have been found buried in the same place. </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
Rail- I know you can find a link - any link- missing link LOL to this patently preposterous claim.
I would pay to see such a hoax dare be perpetrated with photographic evidence for the people to see.
I will say this though- those photos of the 9ft tall Annunikai aliens that bonked our women and became the hybrids we make leaders out of have got me a little concerned...
But Fred Flintstone being found in the same burial plot as Dino the dinosaur is the stuff of cartoons my friend - no matter what the Floodites have put into you head :toast:
Rail- I know you can find a link - any link- missing link LOL to this patently preposterous claim.
I would pay to see such a hoax dare be perpetrated with photographic evidence for the people to see.
I will say this though- those photos of the 9ft tall Annunikai aliens that bonked our women and became the hybrids we make leaders out of have got me a little concerned...
But Fred Flintstone being found in the same burial plot as Dino the dinosaur is the stuff of cartoons my friend - no matter what the Floodites have put into you head :toast:
The "world" was the immediate area known to Noah at the time, not the entire Earth. This is typical of the stories of the Bible at that time. The Bible is not meant to be taken as the truth of the entire universe or the entire Earth but as the stories of what the people knew of at the time. This is why dinosaurs and other truths that were not known to biblical people are not included in such stories.
Although we alter the spelling of behemoth and Leviathan slightly, we still use those same words in bibles today. However, tanniyn is always translated into another word when we write it in English. Tanniyn occurs 28 times in the Bible and is normally translated “dragon.” It is also translated “serpent,” “sea monster,” “dinosaur,” “great creature,” and “reptile.” Behemoth and Leviathan are relatively specific creatures, perhaps each was a single kind of animal. Tanniyn is a more general term, and it can be thought of as the original version of the word “dinosaur.” The word “dinosaur” was originally coined in 1841, more than three thousand years after the Bible first referred to “Tanniyn.” To make things clearer, we constructed the following table comparing the scientific names with the Biblical names tanniyn, behemoth, and Leviathan.
<TABLE borderColor=#cc00ff cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=3 width=500 border=5><TBODY><TR><TD align=middle colSpan=4>“Dinosaur” Names, Then and Now</TD></TR><TR><TD align=middle colSpan=2>Name and date first written in the Bible</TD><TD align=middle colSpan=2>Scientific Name (best estimate) and date the name appeared</TD></TR><TR><TD align=middle>tanniyn (dragon)</TD><TD align=middle>before 1400 BC</TD><TD align=middle>dinosaur</TD><TD align=middle>1841 AD</TD></TR><TR><TD align=middle>behemoth</TD><TD align=middle>before 1400 BC</TD><TD align=middle>brachiosaurus</TD><TD align=middle>1903 AD</TD></TR><TR><TD align=middle>Leviathan</TD><TD align=middle>before 1400 BC</TD><TD align=middle>kronosaurus</TD><TD align=middle>1901 AD</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><!--note Strong's for tanniyn is 8577, behemoth is 0930, and Leviathan 3882-->
How we got these new names is interesting. In 1822, Mary Ann Mantell became the first person to discover and correctly identify a strange bone as part of a large, unknown reptile. Her husband, Dr. Gideon Mantell, later named this creature an “Iguanodon.” From that time forward, these forgotten animals were given names chosen by the people who rediscovered them. Of course, the Bible, written between approximately 1450 BC and 95 AD, does not include any of these names.
Reading the Bible carefully, you will realize that no living creature matches the descriptions of behemoth and Leviathan. However, if you grab your kid’s dinosaur book, you will notice several possible matches for each one. Let’s examine those.
Behemoth has the following attributes according to Job 40:15-24
We would expect behemoth to be a large land animal whose bones are like beams of bronze and so forth, so whatever a behemoth is, it is large. A key phrase is “He is the first of the ways of God.” This phrase in the original Hebrew implied that behemoth was the biggest animal created. Although an elephant or a hippopotamus are big, they are less than one-tenth the size of a Brachiosaurus, the largest (complete) dinosaur ever discovered.[1] A Brachiosaurus could therefore easily be described as “the first of the ways of God.”
Comparing all this information to the description in your kid’s dinosaur book, you may come to the conclusion that “behemoth” is not a normal animal, it is a dinosaur—the brachiosaurus. We agree with that conclusion!
Leviathan has the following attributes according to Job chapter 41, Psalm 104:25,26 and Isaiah 27:1. This is only a partial listing—just enough to make the point.
The description of the scales is interesting. Several verses describe these great scales. Compared to Leviathan’s armor, iron is like straw and arrows ca not make it flee. Let’s face it, an arrow can do a lot of damage to a crocodile or alligator. This is not a description of either of them—or any living animal we are aware of.
And now for the key ingredient: fire. It is hard to read Job 41:18-21 without realizing the Bible is telling us that Leviathan breathes fire. That alone will eliminate almost every living animal. Yes, there is one animal like that in today’s world. It is called a bombardier beetle. This beetle is a native of Central America, and has a nozzle in its hind end that acts like a little flame thrower. It sprays a high-temperature jet of gas (fueled by hydroquinones and hydrogen peroxide with oxidative enzymes) for protection. Now, if a Central American beetle can do it, so could Leviathan. By the way, crocodiles and alligators are out of the picture on this one, don’t you agree?
Before we leave the topic of fire, there are two more notes you may find interesting:
The Accuracy of the Bible
Some people believe that the Bible is not a scientifically accurate book, and that it is only a “spiritual book,” that forgot about dinosaurs or described them incorrectly. This is not the case. Nobody has ever proven that the Bible contains any inaccurately recorded information. (If you think someone has such evidence, contact us:
and show us the evidence. We will post that evidence with our reply in our FAQ section for the world to see—literally.) You do not have to believe the Bible just because someone says you are supposed to. That is blind faith, and blind faith is something you do not need with Christianity. The Bible and Christianity have been proven to be true. (See our page called “How Do You Know The Bible Is True?”) There is no other religion or “holy writing” that can honestly make the same claim. You may also wish to get a copy of the book “Know Why You Believe” by Paul Little. It addresses the facts that support Christianity in clear and simple terms.
What We Are Taught (In School and Through the Media)
Since humans are in the Bible, we unconsciously think that dinosaurs were extinct—and therefore not mentioned in the Bible. As you have just seen, the Bible not only refers to dinosaurs, but has detailed information about two of them.
Unfortunately, our public school system and the media have convinced us that dinosaurs were extinct at least 60 million years before man appeared on earth. They have done such a good job in this area that we can not imagine people and dinosaurs living at the same time. The fact is that dinosaurs were created no more than one day before mankind, not many millions of years earlier—and we have evidence to support that statement. Click here to see our Creation and Evolution page, and a link to many sites that fully prove this.
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<TABLE borderColor=#cc00ff cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=3 width=500 border=5><TBODY><TR><TD align=middle colSpan=4>“Dinosaur” Names, Then and Now</TD></TR><TR><TD align=middle colSpan=2>Name and date first written in the Bible</TD><TD align=middle colSpan=2>Scientific Name (best estimate) and date the name appeared</TD></TR><TR><TD align=middle>tanniyn (dragon)</TD><TD align=middle>before 1400 BC</TD><TD align=middle>dinosaur</TD><TD align=middle>1841 AD</TD></TR><TR><TD align=middle>behemoth</TD><TD align=middle>before 1400 BC</TD><TD align=middle>brachiosaurus</TD><TD align=middle>1903 AD</TD></TR><TR><TD align=middle>Leviathan</TD><TD align=middle>before 1400 BC</TD><TD align=middle>kronosaurus</TD><TD align=middle>1901 AD</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><!--note Strong's for tanniyn is 8577, behemoth is 0930, and Leviathan 3882-->
How we got these new names is interesting. In 1822, Mary Ann Mantell became the first person to discover and correctly identify a strange bone as part of a large, unknown reptile. Her husband, Dr. Gideon Mantell, later named this creature an “Iguanodon.” From that time forward, these forgotten animals were given names chosen by the people who rediscovered them. Of course, the Bible, written between approximately 1450 BC and 95 AD, does not include any of these names.
Reading the Bible carefully, you will realize that no living creature matches the descriptions of behemoth and Leviathan. However, if you grab your kid’s dinosaur book, you will notice several possible matches for each one. Let’s examine those.
- It “eats grass like an ox.”
- It “moves his tail like a cedar.” (In Hebrew, this literally reads, “he lets hang his tail like a cedar.”)
- Its “bones are like beams of bronze,
His ribs like bars of iron.” - “He is the first of the ways of God.”
- “He lies under the lotus trees,
In a covert of reeds and marsh.”
We would expect behemoth to be a large land animal whose bones are like beams of bronze and so forth, so whatever a behemoth is, it is large. A key phrase is “He is the first of the ways of God.” This phrase in the original Hebrew implied that behemoth was the biggest animal created. Although an elephant or a hippopotamus are big, they are less than one-tenth the size of a Brachiosaurus, the largest (complete) dinosaur ever discovered.[1] A Brachiosaurus could therefore easily be described as “the first of the ways of God.”
Comparing all this information to the description in your kid’s dinosaur book, you may come to the conclusion that “behemoth” is not a normal animal, it is a dinosaur—the brachiosaurus. We agree with that conclusion!
- <SMALL>Note: Some paleontologists have found fragmentary leg bones, ribs, or vertebrae which they propose belong to “new” sauropods larger than Brachiosaurus. Examples of these include Amphicoelias, Argentinasaurus, Sauroposeidon, Seismosaurus, Supersaurus and Ultrasaurus. There currently is not enough evidence to really determine the size of any of these, and some paleontologists believe that they are merely large examples of known dinosaurs like Brachiosaurus or Diplodocus. In any case, only the “modern scientific name” of behemoth would change. The point would still remain that behemoth refers to a dinosaur, not a “modern animal” like an elephant or hippopotamus.</SMALL>
- “No one is so fierce that he would dare stir him up.”
- “Who can open the doors of his face, with his terrible teeth all around?”
- “His rows of scales are his pride, shut up tightly as with a seal; one is so near another that no air can come between them; they are joined one to another, they stick together and cannot be parted.”
- “His sneezings flash forth light, and his eyes are like the eyelids of the morning. Out of his mouth go burning lights; sparks of fire shoot out. Smoke goes out of his nostrils, as from a boiling pot and burning rushes. His breath kindles coals, and a flame goes out of his mouth.”
- “Though the sword reaches him, it cannot avail; nor does spear, dart, or javelin. He regards iron as straw, and bronze as rotten wood. The arrow cannot make him flee; slingstones become like stubble to him. Darts are regarded as straw; he laughs at the threat of javelins.”
- “On earth there is nothing like him, which is made without fear.”
- Leviathan “played” in the “great and wide sea” (a paraphrase of Psalm 104 verses 25 and 26—get the exact sense by reading them yourself).
- Leviathan is a “reptile <SMALL>[a]</SMALL> that is in the sea.” (Isaiah 27:1) <SMALL>[a] Note: The word translated “reptile” here is the Hebrew word tanniyn. This shows that “Leviathan” was also a “tanniyn” (dragon).</SMALL>
The description of the scales is interesting. Several verses describe these great scales. Compared to Leviathan’s armor, iron is like straw and arrows ca not make it flee. Let’s face it, an arrow can do a lot of damage to a crocodile or alligator. This is not a description of either of them—or any living animal we are aware of.
And now for the key ingredient: fire. It is hard to read Job 41:18-21 without realizing the Bible is telling us that Leviathan breathes fire. That alone will eliminate almost every living animal. Yes, there is one animal like that in today’s world. It is called a bombardier beetle. This beetle is a native of Central America, and has a nozzle in its hind end that acts like a little flame thrower. It sprays a high-temperature jet of gas (fueled by hydroquinones and hydrogen peroxide with oxidative enzymes) for protection. Now, if a Central American beetle can do it, so could Leviathan. By the way, crocodiles and alligators are out of the picture on this one, don’t you agree?
Before we leave the topic of fire, there are two more notes you may find interesting:
- The history of every culture is filled with stories of fire-breathing dragons. If you think about it, in all the past ages wouldn’t someone have made up a story of a fire-breathing lion or something? Nobody did because the dragon stories are based on truth, and only “dragons” breathed fire. It is easy to imagine Leviathan as a member of the dragon (tanniyn) family. (Plus, Isaiah 27:1 strongly implies this connection.)
- Many fossil dinosaur skulls contain unexplained, empty passages. Scientists have not been able to guess the reason for these passages. Would it make sense that some dinosaurs used these passages as “gas tanks” for the combustible mixture used to “breathe fire?” We believe it does.
The Accuracy of the Bible
Some people believe that the Bible is not a scientifically accurate book, and that it is only a “spiritual book,” that forgot about dinosaurs or described them incorrectly. This is not the case. Nobody has ever proven that the Bible contains any inaccurately recorded information. (If you think someone has such evidence, contact us:
What We Are Taught (In School and Through the Media)
Since humans are in the Bible, we unconsciously think that dinosaurs were extinct—and therefore not mentioned in the Bible. As you have just seen, the Bible not only refers to dinosaurs, but has detailed information about two of them.
Unfortunately, our public school system and the media have convinced us that dinosaurs were extinct at least 60 million years before man appeared on earth. They have done such a good job in this area that we can not imagine people and dinosaurs living at the same time. The fact is that dinosaurs were created no more than one day before mankind, not many millions of years earlier—and we have evidence to support that statement. Click here to see our Creation and Evolution page, and a link to many sites that fully prove this.
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