what single payer health care?

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What is single payer health care HR 676 medicare for all. Following link explains:

http://www.grahamazon.com/sp/whatissinglepayer.php

In July, after extensive lobbying by single-payer activists, a House committee approved an amendment by Representative Dennis Kucinich. It would remove potential legal impediments for states to create single-payer systems by granting a federal waiver of ERISA, the Employee Retirement Income and Security Act.

Opposition from large, multi-state employers is the biggest obstacle to keeping the Kucinich amendment in the final bill.
The Chamber of Commerce, National Retail Federation, and companies such as Boeing and AT&T have told Congress they can’t live with a state option for single payer.

Would it work? It did in Canada. Many in the United States believe a similar scenario will unfold here: once a state government implements a single-payer system and reaps the economic rewards and public health benefits, others will follow suit.
WHERE COULD IT HAPPEN?

California, Colorado, Illinois, Maine, New Mexico, New York, Pennsylvania, and Vermont are states that have both vibrant single-payer movements and single-payer bills currently or recently in the hopper. They would likely respond quickly if the amendment becomes law.

California is a prime case. The state legislature has already passed single-payer bills twice, both vetoed by Governor Arnold Schwarze****** who, to the relief of many, is barred by term limits from running again. A single-payer bill is already on the California legislative docket, ready for his replacement, due November 2010.

Single payer is also before the Pennsylvania legislature, where four Republican legislators are now sponsoring the bill following a presentation to their caucus about the economic benefits for the state’s citizens.

Several city governments in Pennsylvania have passed resolutions supporting single payer, and on October 20, advocates from a host of unions, the AFL-CIO state fed, community groups, and faith-based coalitions will rally and lobby at the state Capitol to support their state bills.
WHAT’S NEXT?

The labor movement has been divided on health care reform, between single-payer advocates and those who thought a “public option” to compete with private insurance was the only viable goal.

This week's AFL-CIO convention will be presented with around 60 resolutions from national unions, Central Labor Councils, and state feds, calling on the federation to take the lead in fighting for single payer. This is a large number of resolutions for an issue not supported by top officials.

But Congress will likely pass something, at best, similar to Massachusetts’ 2006 reforms. That plan has smashed into many roadblocks. The law forced all Massachusetts residents to buy insurance but failed to prevent price gouging. Many residents are still reeling from the continued high costs, and the state has had to limit enrollment in its subsidized plan and reduce covered services.

If, as expected, the final national bill reproduces similar problems, single-payer advocates will continue their fight both nationally and in individual states, says Mark Dudzic, organizer for the Labor Campaign for Single-Payer. They see state-level reform as “a path back to national single payer.”

RNs, who have long known that health care for profit interferes with their responsibility to advocate for patients, will be among the many labor and community organizers working this fall to give state-based single-payer options a chance.


http://labornotes.org/node/2397
 

Everything's Legal in the USofA...Just don't get c
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What about giving CAPITALISM a chance before we turn unalterably down the one-way street of socialism? Things like:

Major tort reform. Probably the single biggest cause of high medical costs is medical lawsuits and the resulting malpractice insurance. (Good luck getting Obama and his trial-lawyer run party to ever support anything like this.)

Interstate availability of health care plans.

Full transparency in medical pricing and insurance reimbursement. Let doctors advertise like any other business, making their prices for different procedures readily available. Patients would then know how much of their bill their policies would cover, and could make wiser choices when purchasing health care.

Permitting insurance companies to raise rates for customers whose high risk behavior makes their need for health care more likely. (e.g., smokers, obese people, motorcycle owners, heavy drinkers and drug abusers, etc.)
 
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What about giving CAPITALISM a chance before we turn unalterably down the one-way street of socialism? Things like:

Major tort reform. Probably the single biggest cause of high medical costs is medical lawsuits and the resulting malpractice insurance. (Good luck getting Obama and his trial-lawyer run party to ever support anything like this.)

Interstate availability of health care plans.

Full transparency in medical pricing and insurance reimbursement. Let doctors advertise like any other business, making their prices for different procedures readily available. Patients would then know how much of their bill their policies would cover, and could make wiser choices when purchasing health care.

Permitting insurance companies to raise rates for customers whose high risk behavior makes their need for health care more likely. (e.g., smokers, obese people, motorcycle owners, heavy drinkers and drug abusers, etc.)
Was reading an article on the tort reform law in Mississippi & the cost numbers went way down.
 

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What about giving CAPITALISM a chance before we turn unalterably down the one-way street of socialism?

The things you describe would be truly awesome. We could actually have universal health care simply by letting the market set prices -- people who work at McDonald's can still buy cheap cars and cheap clothes. Why are they not allowed to buy cheap medical services?

Sadly too many citizens don't support it, either out of fear, ignorance or political ideology. The insurance companies don't support it because they take such a huge cut of almost every dollar spent on medical coverage. The doctors don't want it, because all open competition drives prices down. The democratic president and congress don't support it because they need to win money and votes
 

Everything's Legal in the USofA...Just don't get c
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The things you describe would be truly awesome. We could actually have universal health care simply by letting the market set prices -- people who work at McDonald's can still buy cheap cars and cheap clothes. Why are they not allowed to buy cheap medical services?

Sadly too many citizens don't support it, either out of fear, ignorance or political ideology. The insurance companies don't support it because they take such a huge cut of almost every dollar spent on medical coverage. The doctors don't want it, because all open competition drives prices down. The democratic president and congress don't support it because they need to win money and votes

I suppose you're right. But when we eventually have socialized medicine here it will be too late. And then I guarantee you everyone will wish we had chosen the free enterprise route.
 

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The things you describe would be truly awesome. We could actually have universal health care simply by letting the market set prices -- people who work at McDonald's can still buy cheap cars and cheap clothes. Why are they not allowed to buy cheap medical services?

You can't be serious with that analogy? I can buy a $2,000 used car or I can buy a $50,000 new car (25x). You think a $10,000 medical procedure is going to be obtainable from an actual doctor for $400? Medical care doesn't have the price flexibility that cars or clothes have.
 

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No and I never said that. Right now it doesn't have flexibility because there is no competitive marketplace. Cut out the 30% or so that the middle man takes on every dollar spent and allow the customer to shop around for the best price and even someone earning minimum wage could cover a procedure that currently costs $10 000

Further, if employers were no longer asked to pay for insurance, they could provide higher wages, so the workers would have a lot more in savings for when something does happen
 

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No and I never said that. Right now it doesn't have flexibility because there is no competitive marketplace. Cut out the 30% or so that the middle man takes on every dollar spent and allow the customer to shop around for the best price and even someone earning minimum wage could cover a procedure that currently costs $10 000

Further, if employers were no longer asked to pay for insurance, they could provide higher wages, so the workers would have a lot more in savings for when something does happen

Yes and we could take the burden off employers by going to single payer.
 

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You can't be serious with that analogy? I can buy a $2,000 used car or I can buy a $50,000 new car (25x). You think a $10,000 medical procedure is going to be obtainable from an actual doctor for $400? Medical care doesn't have the price flexibility that cars or clothes have.

Perhaps not that precise disparity, but I believe that in a truly open marketplace, many currently two to three hour medical procedures which cost $10K+ (just for surgeon) could be reliably and safely delivered for $2K or less.

SheBar has had two different procedures in past four years that each took less than three hours and which each billed our insurance carrier almost $20K for the surgeon and anesthesiologist alone
 

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What about giving CAPITALISM a chance before we turn unalterably down the one-way street of socialism? Things like:

Major tort reform. Probably the single biggest cause of high medical costs is medical lawsuits and the resulting malpractice insurance. (Good luck getting Obama and his trial-lawyer run party to ever support anything like this.)

Interstate availability of health care plans.

Full transparency in medical pricing and insurance reimbursement. Let doctors advertise like any other business, making their prices for different procedures readily available. Patients would then know how much of their bill their policies would cover, and could make wiser choices when purchasing health care.

Permitting insurance companies to raise rates for customers whose high risk behavior makes their need for health care more likely. (e.g., smokers, obese people, motorcycle owners, heavy drinkers and drug abusers, etc.)

#1 we have been giving free enterprise a chance for 100 years. Yes, that's when Teddy Roosevelt suggested that we should include all of our citizens in a healthcare program.

#2 If a turn down the socialized road is so irrevocable then the free market cannot compete and the socialized route is the obvious choice.
 

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Regulating malpractive suits is not capitalism. I never get why those who call themselves conservatives support this. If a doctor fucks up then you should get paid and the government shouldn't be capping that.

I'm all for medical providers advertising their prices...but there is no need to mandate that. We just need to roll back the laws that favor managed care.


What about giving CAPITALISM a chance before we turn unalterably down the one-way street of socialism? Things like:

Major tort reform. Probably the single biggest cause of high medical costs is medical lawsuits and the resulting malpractice insurance. (Good luck getting Obama and his trial-lawyer run party to ever support anything like this.)

Interstate availability of health care plans.

Full transparency in medical pricing and insurance reimbursement. Let doctors advertise like any other business, making their prices for different procedures readily available. Patients would then know how much of their bill their policies would cover, and could make wiser choices when purchasing health care.

Permitting insurance companies to raise rates for customers whose high risk behavior makes their need for health care more likely. (e.g., smokers, obese people, motorcycle owners, heavy drinkers and drug abusers, etc.)
 

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What about giving CAPITALISM a chance before we turn unalterably down the one-way street of socialism? Things like:

Major tort reform. Probably the single biggest cause of high medical costs is medical lawsuits and the resulting malpractice insurance. (Good luck getting Obama and his trial-lawyer run party to ever support anything like this.)

Interstate availability of health care plans.

Full transparency in medical pricing and insurance reimbursement. Let doctors advertise like any other business, making their prices for different procedures readily available. Patients would then know how much of their bill their policies would cover, and could make wiser choices when purchasing health care.

Permitting insurance companies to raise rates for customers whose high risk behavior makes their need for health care more likely. (e.g., smokers, obese people, motorcycle owners, heavy drinkers and drug abusers, etc.)

"Medical malpractice premiums are less than one-half of one percent of overall health care costs, and medical malpractice claims are a mere one-fifth of one percent of health care costs."


"Our study also shows that states that have passed severe medical malpractice tort restrictions on victims of medical error have rate changes similar to those states that haven't adopted these harsh measures. Finally, our research makes clear that medical malpractice claims and premiums have almost no impact on the cost of health care. Medical malpractice premiums are less than one-half of one percent of overall health care costs, and medical malpractice claims are a mere one-fifth of one percent of health care costs. If Congress completely eliminated every single medical malpractice lawsuit, including all legitimate cases, as part of health care reform, overall health care costs would hardly change, but the costs of medical error and hospital-induced injury would remain and someone else would have to pay."

Joanne Doroshow, Executive Director of the Center for Justice & Democracy, said, "Medical malpractice claims are down. Premiums are down. Meanwhile, insurers are raking in money and belittling the fact that hundreds of thousands of patients are killed or injured due to medical negligence each year. Many states have already afforded health care providers extensive legal protections for reckless or unsafe medical care. Proposals in any national health care bill that will take even more money out of the hands of injured patients and into the pockets of insurers are utterly indefensible."

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/158494.php
 

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Was reading an article on the tort reform law in Mississippi & the cost numbers went way down.


When your husband has his cervical laminectomy and the surgeon is careless, damages nerves, your husband ends up paralyzed and the court gives you 250K to take care of your husband for the rest of his life, see then how well you think tort reform is working. The answer to absurdly high malpractice insurance isn't tort reform. The answer is not to commit malpractice.
 

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I suppose you're right. But when we eventually have socialized medicine here it will be too late. And then I guarantee you everyone will wish we had chosen the free enterprise route.

I know the insurance companies will wish we stayed on the free enterprise route.

Single payer "socialized medicine" is a payer system that pays for the care of private doctors/hospitals. It pools all the funds together under one system and streamlines billing, so you don't get 10 different bills for one hospital stay ( you won't see any bills at all). Sets prices so a operation in California costs the same in NY or bumf##k MS.

We have the free enterprise route now and it's working fine for insurance companies and paid off republican and democrat congressman. How can the rest of the world be wrong on this?

Walmart shows how this works with their "socialized drug prescription program" Where you pay $4.00 for prescriptions. They pool their customers funds then got to the drug companies, show them the numbers and tell them you got to give us a good deal. The result, $4.00 prescriptions! This can be done with health care.

The US pays 2.4 trillion dollars a year for health care, the cost to cover everyone is about 600 billion a year, see the savings. The savings would go back into the system for care and cover every thing, vision, dental and all types of cancer.

We don't need insurance companies profits, their drugs ads, their million dollar a day lobbyists, their CEO's 100 million dollar golden parachutes or their salaries.
 

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You can't be serious with that analogy? I can buy a $2,000 used car or I can buy a $50,000 new car (25x). You think a $10,000 medical procedure is going to be obtainable from an actual doctor for $400? Medical care doesn't have the price flexibility that cars or clothes have.

The US medical system loves people like you, not matter what you have your mind set that you're going to pay the top dollar and that's final.


Approximately 529,000 knee replacements are performed annually in the United States and about 250,000 hip replacements, reported Colin Stewart of the Orange County Register July 2, 2008. Typically these procedures involve patients over 50 and the cost can by as much as $50,000 per operation.
Knee Replacement for $7,000 Rather than $45,000

In the growing practice of medical tourism, sufferers have surgery performed by accredited orthopedists in places such as India, Thailand, Singapore, Costa Rica and Panama. According to Kneeindia.com, high-flex knee replacement that costs $45,000 in the US, costs only $12,000 in Singapore, $15,000 in Thailand and $7,000 at the hospital of the Chennai physician who owns the website.
 

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The US medical system loves people like you, not matter what you have your mind set that you're going to pay the top dollar and that's final.


Approximately 529,000 knee replacements are performed annually in the United States and about 250,000 hip replacements, reported Colin Stewart of the Orange County Register July 2, 2008. Typically these procedures involve patients over 50 and the cost can by as much as $50,000 per operation.
Knee Replacement for $7,000 Rather than $45,000

In the growing practice of medical tourism, sufferers have surgery performed by accredited orthopedists in places such as India, Thailand, Singapore, Costa Rica and Panama. According to Kneeindia.com, high-flex knee replacement that costs $45,000 in the US, costs only $12,000 in Singapore, $15,000 in Thailand and $7,000 at the hospital of the Chennai physician who owns the website.

....and the Dems love people like you. Actually think the government can do it better.
 

Everything's Legal in the USofA...Just don't get c
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A little reality check for Punter, Nimue, Spytheweb, and the rest:

1) A single payer system would be an ENTITLEMENT, just like Medicare. Once an entitlement is in place it NEVER goes away. Take a look at the outcry from folks on Medicare who believe that their benefits might be cut (which they should be) to get an idea of how costly this is going to be. And, a Government bureaucracy will have to be established to manage the system. Once a Government bureaucracy is established it NEVER goes away, either.

2) A single payer system will bankrupt the country unless tightly managed health care rationing is imposed. And the spoiled citizens of this country will NEVER let that happen. Wait until the first terminally ill 5 year old (or 95 year old, for that matter) is denied a procedure that would extend his life for 6 months, and sit back and watch the public outcry egged on by the sensationalist networks CBS, NBC, ABC, Fox, CNN, NPR, etc.etc. The politicians from both parties will jump all over it. No treatment will ever be denied again. The country simply cannot afford this.

3) Free enterprise for health care has NEVER been tried in this country, at least not in the 20th and 21st centuries. Does anyone really believe there is transparency in medical pricing? Why aren't the same insurance options available in Wyoming as they are in Texas? The recommendations I outlined above would go a long way to reducing costs, and will result in a much more competitive environment for the insurance industry.

4) No one - save for the Ron Paul lunatic fringe (no hate mail please) believes in completely unbridled capitalism. There have to be some controls on things like malpractice lawsuits. And no one is calling for limits on awards for damages and care required resulting from medical errors. What is totally out of control are awards for "pain and suffering".
 

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mama,
Some of your points are in complete conflict. Again, while I agree the free market would be far superior to what we have now, virtually no one in the country wants it

Right now sick five-year-olds are recieving socialized medicine. If we had a free-market, his only options would be to find a job and pay for it, or be left for dead. I can accept not helping people who can't help themselves if that's what the people want. But you seem to belive out country cannot afford it

Years ago free schools and free roads were huge parts of what made this country so strong, things never before in the history of the world. I see healthcare as a similar necessithy
 

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mama,
Some of your points are in complete conflict. Again, while I agree the free market would be far superior to what we have now, virtually no one in the country wants it

Right now sick five-year-olds are recieving socialized medicine. If we had a free-market, his only options would be to find a job and pay for it, or be left for dead. I can accept not helping people who can't help themselves if that's what the people want. But you seem to belive out country cannot afford it

Years ago free schools and free roads were huge parts of what made this country so strong, things never before in the history of the world. I see healthcare as a similar necessithy

The point is, no health care system can afford to pay for all procedures for all people. There has to be some rationing. Currently, insurance companies decide what procedures they will and won't cover, and the amount of deductibles and co-payment percentages that are the insuree's responsibility.

I'm not saying that we shouldn't have Government programs like Medicaid for the indigent or Medicare for the needy elderly. But we can't afford to provide this kind of coverage to everyone unless benefits are limited.
 

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There is as little transparency in the medical world as they could possibly make it. If you look at what is billed vs what is paid by your insurance company it is mind boggling.

When my wife and I were going without insurance, in the last couple of years prior to turning 65, treatments and exams were usually discounted 50% due to cash payment.

All these games that are played between the caregivers and insurance providers has to cost the industry (and ultimately, us) trillions in accounting overhead.
 

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