What liberals can learn from Reagan

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The lesson to be learned from Reagan is not an ideological one. His ideology was wrong for America and wrong for the world -- something even Reagan sometimes recognized, as when he backed away from the most extreme tenets of the conservative agenda to, for instance, defend Social Security, and when he finally agreed, at the behest of Margaret Thatcher, to negotiate with reformist Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev.

Rather, the lesson to be learned from Reagan is a stylistic one. He loved preaching his conservative doctrines. And he loved battling with liberals at the ballot box, at the debate podium and in the Capitol. He was a conservative first, a Republican second. He showed no respect for party decorum, challenging a sitting Republican president -- Gerald Ford -- who he felt was too moderate. And he was willing to lose on principle, whether in that 1976 nomination fight with Ford or, during his presidential terms, in fights with Congress over tax policy, foreign affairs or nominations to the U.S. Supreme Court.

Just imagine if Bill Clinton had been as committed to advancing an activist liberal ideology as Reagan was to his conservative agenda. America might have a national health care plan today. Labor law reform could have been a reality, rather than an empty promise. The United States would certainly have a more progressive judiciary. And here's another notion: If Clinton or Al Gore had put as much energy and enthusiasm into educating Americans about and promoting a liberal agenda as Reagan did for his conservative ideals, the United States would today have a different Congress and president.

This willingness to fight so fearlessly and forcefully for his political faith is what made the 40th president remarkable. It is what inspired conservatives. And it is the one thing that liberals would do well to learn from Ronald Reagan.
 

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Core values like what, murder and rape, pilfering the middle class, fuccing the environment.....

yeah real wholesome core values there by your "boys"

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Just imagine if Bill Clinton had been as committed to advancing an activist liberal ideology as Reagan was to his conservative agenda. America might have a national health care plan today. Labor law reform could have been a reality, rather than an empty promise <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

NOBODY WANTS A NATIONAL HEALTH CARE PLAN!!!
Hillary care went out the window by an overwhelming majority.
Its flawed bureaucratic farce!!
 

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Core values like what, murder and rape, pilfering the middle class, fuccing the environment.....

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Murder and rape??? Are you talking about liberal strongholds like inner cities???

Pilfering the middle class?? you mean High tax rates that liberals love like the marriage penalties,death tax, moronic fedral regs on small buis????

fuxcking the enviroment...you mean like Mexico and china??? and the mideast??..where there are virtually no enviromental protections???
 

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Patriot:
you have to have core values to start with liberals have none<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I am completely at a loss to comprehend how people can seriously believe that the Left is value-less. Typically their concerns are for the underpriviledged, the environment, protecting the commons and such. While I won't purport that the Right is lacking values, I would suggest that where economics are concerned they are motivated by the accumulation of monetary and material wealth and where social values are concerned they are motivated by protectionism. On the other hand, the Left is concerned about the equal distribution of wealth and social/economic opportunity. We are hardly immoral.

I can understand the Right's routine argument that the Left is idealistic and/or naive ... perhaps a little too altruistic for the real world. I'll give you that. But lacking in values? That's completely ridiculous.
 

I'm still here Mo-fo's
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Real simple, views like his are those of an ideologue. Doesn't matter how untrue, just that he believes them to be sacred.

Bottom line is they are so full of shit and themselves they'll never listen to reason.

Neocon's......
shutup.gif


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I think Patriot judges liberals by their collective actions and not by their thought processes. I find it ironic that conservative policies tend to uphold liberal values better than liberal policies.
 

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> I find it ironic that conservative policies tend to uphold liberal values better than liberal policies.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

DP..you are correct,and I am wrong....wrong terminolgy.

Liberals continue to believe in the same things conservatives do except they way they go about turns logic upside down...giving people fish rather than a fishing pole,rewarding failure by punishing success,appeasing criminal behavior...they never ever consider who they hurt when they mean to help....they think common people are stupid and that only the academic elite and politicians are "smart" enough to make decisions...pro abortion but against the death penalty...or what I like to say kill the innocent spare the killer.
 

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Well said Patriot. A related issue is that I often find myself in situations when someone pisses me off who "means well" and since I am more intelligent, I am expected to forgive them. Yet there is no expectation on them to raise their level to avoid such situations or to forgive me when I do something that they don't understand that might piss them off. The cultural backdrop of this is largely fueled by liberal policies.

In short, as you correctly said, liberal policies reward mediocrity, stupidity and ignorance and punish skill, intelligence and excellence.
 

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Patriot:
Liberals continue to believe in the same things conservatives do except they way they go about turns logic upside down...giving people fish rather than a fishing pole,rewarding failure by punishing success,appeasing criminal behavior...they never ever consider who they hurt when they mean to help....they think common people are stupid and that only the academic elite and politicians are "smart" enough to make decisions...pro abortion but against the death penalty...or what I like to say kill the innocent spare the killer.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


A stat you may find interesting: an individual has a six times greater chance of crossing 'class' lines in Liberal Canada than they do in Conservative US. Six times! Now, I find it hard to believe such a discrepancy is the direct result of handing out fish rather than poles.
 

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by xpanda:

A stat you may find interesting: an individual has a _six times_ greater chance of crossing 'class' lines in Liberal Canada than they do in Conservative US. Six times! Now, I find it hard to believe such a discrepancy is the direct result of handing out fish rather than poles.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Don't try talking class with neocons, they'll just ignore you. Its their worst nightmare that the American lower and middle classes might wake up one day and vote in their own economic self-interest.
 

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Well I'm not sure of your definition of "class lines" is or what you compare it to...I keep thinking jumbo shrimp...or monkey in a suit...jump class lines might be fine but which direction?
Another thought that comes to mind is a stairmaster...can't really tell if your climbing or the stairs are coming down???
At 6 times does that mean as we go through the progression everyone eventually is either high class or low class...Is it a short way to the top or is that just a glass ceiling?
 

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An impoverished Canadian is six times more likely than an impoverished American to join the upper-middle-class.

Reasons for this, off the top of my head, might include: school funding based solely on # of students, not geography; federal and provincial funding for universities (my undergrad cost me in the neighbourhood of only $2K per year plus books); greater ethnic diversity diminishing fear of ethnicity leading to more equal opportunity for minorities; reduced number of excessively wealthy overall skewing the stats somewhat (although we also have a much reduced number of excessively poor as well); less harsh restrictions and more 'forgiveness' of pass errors ie. drugs and welfare eligibility.

Just some ideas. All of which, for the record, are highly liberal. But, hey, whatever works for ya.
 

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XP,

How does an average upper-middle class Canadian's chances of joining the Canadian upper class compare with his chances of joining the American upper class? Lots of border hopping going on there from what I can see. That can't be too good for Canada.
 

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