WildBill said:
I don't think this has anything to do with Europeans being far less demanding.
It's the corporate culture in the betting industry that is different, as most of the European based books (and their managers) come from land-based business.
I'm not talking about Mansion here, but an European punter doesn't need to go on a betting forum or a search engine to find Ladbrokes or Whill. We already know about them...if you know what I mean.
THE SHRINK said:
THE SHRINK said:
Huh? If your confidence in their ability to pay remains unchanged, you consider them an excellent out, and you still believe they are deeply funded and safe, then ....
why is it you dont play there anymore????
I definetely see you point in not personally guaranteeing player funds for a non-advertiser, but not the rest.
Sometimes I'm a little slow, help me out.
Thanks buddy.
agreed
You are quite correct to say that Hills, Ladbrokes and most Uk books attitude to punters is that punters are either idiots or you don't want them as customers. Either way you can afford to give them poor CS.
However, in the case of Hills & Lads we are talking about fully quoted public companies with numerous outside shareholders - including me at one point - to answer to. Both with strong balance sheets, embarrassingly so in the case of Hills, and good profits.
I am still with Mansion who have IMO been running a better book these past 3 months and dealing more sensible lines. But a number of perfectly legitimate questions were posed on this site. Had they answered them - either here or on their website - properly I for one would have a lot bigger balance there.
The key issues are:
1. Is there an escrow account or similar fully ring fenced setup for client funds?
2. Why are they in Gibraltar which has a joke regulatory regime and has for many years been a popular source of timeshare touts, share scammers and money laundering operations?
3. How much has the cigarette baron invested in Mansion and what recourse does he have to getting hold of those funds at short notice if the fancy takes him?
I accept that many other books have not had to answer these sorts of questions, we all take it for granted that Spiro & co. are not going to do a runner anytime soon.
But Mansion are new kids on the block who have ambitious goals and their advertising makes some claims to the book being as safe as houses financially without giving any hard facts to base this on. No-one needs to ask Hills, Ladbrokes these sorts of questions, just log on to their website and review their accounts.
You are quite correct to say that Hills, Ladbrokes and most Uk books attitude to punters is that punters are either idiots or you don't want them as customers. Either way you can afford to give them poor CS.
However, in the case of Hills & Lads we are talking about fully quoted public companies with numerous outside shareholders - including me at one point - to answer to. Both with strong balance sheets, embarrassingly so in the case of Hills, and good profits.
I am still with Mansion who have IMO been running a better book these past 3 months and dealing more sensible lines. But a number of perfectly legitimate questions were posed on this site. Had they answered them - either here or on their website - properly I for one would have a lot bigger balance there.
The key issues are:
1. Is there an escrow account or similar fully ring fenced setup for client funds?
2. Why are they in Gibraltar which has a joke regulatory regime and has for many years been a popular source of timeshare touts, share scammers and money laundering operations?
3. How much has the cigarette baron invested in Mansion and what recourse does he have to getting hold of those funds at short notice if the fancy takes him?
I accept that many other books have not had to answer these sorts of questions, we all take it for granted that Spiro & co. are not going to do a runner anytime soon.
But Mansion are new kids on the block who have ambitious goals and their advertising makes some claims to the book being as safe as houses financially without giving any hard facts to base this on. No-one needs to ask Hills, Ladbrokes these sorts of questions, just log on to their website and review their accounts.
assassin,
The reason I don't play there any longer has nothing to do with their ability to pay out...
I believe that a friend of mine who had an account there was DELIBERATELY given a HARD time after the posting debacle broke out on this site...
Although he had given identity by way of a Passport to collect winnings on previous occassions, he was asked to resubmit proper ID because Mansion suddeny claimed that the ID wasn't clear enough for them...
So basically what was once OK became NOT OK immediately after Mansion was upset about the negative post regarding their losses on TheRx.com...
I considered that to be childish and self serving for them to do...
I emailed this guy a couple of times but he didn't have the courtesy of responding back...
Therefore, I pulled out and all my funds were sent in a timely manner but I did not want to risk another one of these stunts...
THE SHRINK
The reason I don't play there any longer has nothing to do with their ability to pay out...
I believe that a friend of mine who had an account there was DELIBERATELY given a HARD time after the posting debacle broke out on this site...
Although he had given identity by way of a Passport to collect winnings on previous occassions, he was asked to resubmit proper ID because Mansion suddeny claimed that the ID wasn't clear enough for them...
So basically what was once OK became NOT OK immediately after Mansion was upset about the negative post regarding their losses on TheRx.com...
I considered that to be childish and self serving for them to do...
I emailed this guy a couple of times but he didn't have the courtesy of responding back...
Therefore, I pulled out and all my funds were sent in a timely manner but I did not want to risk another one of these stunts...
THE SHRINK
assassin said:
BRAVO Assassin...I agree completely with your thoughts. THIS ONE OF THE MAIN REASONS THIS FORUM IS GREAT......BUYER BEWARE INFORMATION.......I MEAN JUST BECAUSE SOME FOREIGN MONEY COMES UP TO SUPPORT A BOOK, THEY ARE LOOKING FOR A QUICK RAKE IN OF CASH .....just like the gambler sometimes. I mean half of thise outfits are set up with more cost in telephone and internet equipment, then they have chairs to sit on in the back of some 8 x 10 crawl space......SO IF YOU STINK....you stink.......if you are for real, then all will know.....
SHRINK you owe NO ONE an apology......IF ANYTHING....you make them sign an agreement that gurantees freedom of speach.......and guess what if they come where the BMW's and MERCEDES and CADILLACS park, then they deserve to be in business.....if not.......there they are in the wrong place
You will always have plenty of advertisers and their $$$$$
GO look at www.cafepharma.com This is a forum for pharmaceutical sales personnel. GO look at their posting regulations......ALL GOES, and no editing
You are a bad manger, rep, company, sales force, person, ......and you work in the pharma biotech industry.......WE WILL ALL KNOW ABOUT IT......This forum is sometimes over zealous, but it is a consumer reports of job change and company profile....excellent resource......as is the RX FORUM for gambling
NEWPORT
Chop, advertiser or non a book that threatens to literally seize funds because of what they perceive being negative pr is wrong. Period.
Spiro might yell and shout, pull his banners, but he has way too much respect for the business to even think about threatening someone to seize his funds.
Btw...what Ken posted is the incident I am also aware of. All this happened after Dent left.......
Spiro might yell and shout, pull his banners, but he has way too much respect for the business to even think about threatening someone to seize his funds.
Btw...what Ken posted is the incident I am also aware of. All this happened after Dent left.......
I guess that everyone missed it when Ken stated that Mansion was not renewing (a week or two ago).
As far as him not playing there anymore, I could certainly understand that. Pulling their advertising has to be perceived as somewhat of a slap in the face, and in his shoes, I wouldn't give them my business either (let alone backing anyone's balance out of my own pocket). This is just like any other business, and probably much more so-scratch my back, and I'll scratch yours.
Regardless of how big they wish to become, or how many high rollers they wish to take on, I've always been of the belief that NO new book should advertise on any forum until they establish a solid "recreational" player base. It just doesn't seem like a reasonable business decision if you realize who you are catering to on the forums. You may get a few small fish, but you're also inviting some of the biggest, sharpest whales.
Books not responding to forums is nothing new-some consider it to be a "lose lose" situation regardless of who is right, others just don't want to bother with it, and others just don't want to face the fact that they tried to screw a player & got called on it (although a vast majority of the cases I've seen are players trying to screw the book).
There are so, sooooo many ways that a player could read into this situation-I won't even bother listing them.
They are still a brand new book, supposedly backed by one of the richest men in the world. Time will only tell if that is the truth, and whether or not he decides to continue in the bookmaking business. There is no shame in closing up shop and paying off the players, and if this is what ended up happening to Mansion, it would be a much more professional exit than many others have made.
Being a BM isn't necessarily a ticket to print money. Some jump ship, others turn things around, adjust, and become profitable.
Only time will tell where Mansion falls into this picture.......
As far as him not playing there anymore, I could certainly understand that. Pulling their advertising has to be perceived as somewhat of a slap in the face, and in his shoes, I wouldn't give them my business either (let alone backing anyone's balance out of my own pocket). This is just like any other business, and probably much more so-scratch my back, and I'll scratch yours.
Regardless of how big they wish to become, or how many high rollers they wish to take on, I've always been of the belief that NO new book should advertise on any forum until they establish a solid "recreational" player base. It just doesn't seem like a reasonable business decision if you realize who you are catering to on the forums. You may get a few small fish, but you're also inviting some of the biggest, sharpest whales.
Books not responding to forums is nothing new-some consider it to be a "lose lose" situation regardless of who is right, others just don't want to bother with it, and others just don't want to face the fact that they tried to screw a player & got called on it (although a vast majority of the cases I've seen are players trying to screw the book).
There are so, sooooo many ways that a player could read into this situation-I won't even bother listing them.
They are still a brand new book, supposedly backed by one of the richest men in the world. Time will only tell if that is the truth, and whether or not he decides to continue in the bookmaking business. There is no shame in closing up shop and paying off the players, and if this is what ended up happening to Mansion, it would be a much more professional exit than many others have made.
Being a BM isn't necessarily a ticket to print money. Some jump ship, others turn things around, adjust, and become profitable.
Only time will tell where Mansion falls into this picture.......
It really comes down to "damned if you do, damned if you don't" regarding the fact I chose to back up Roberto's claim about Mansion's losses...
I know many gamblers appreciate knowing when a book is in the RED, regardless of whether they advertise on this site...
A FAIR watchdog will reveal this information...
Such was the case with Mansion...
The only question that remains unknown at this time is how much were they in the RED at the time that was posted?
THE SHRINK
I know many gamblers appreciate knowing when a book is in the RED, regardless of whether they advertise on this site...
A FAIR watchdog will reveal this information...
Such was the case with Mansion...
The only question that remains unknown at this time is how much were they in the RED at the time that was posted?
THE SHRINK
TOW said:
Roberto... can you elaborate here? Are you saying that Mansion threatened to seize funds from Kens account due to negative PR? or am I reading this incorrectly.
Ken... if the above post is true, is that why you pulled your money out?
If Mansion actually considered this that is pretty pathetic IMO.
HTRC
