I'm a dem to people when I say I want health care as a right in the constitution.
I'm a repub when I say I want a 50 foot wall built encompassing the United States, using selective immigration and re-opening ellis island as a entry point for immigrants.
My beliefs are all over the place, some very conservative like immigration, and some very liberal like health care. Being chained to a party and supporting everyone of it's positions is a very stupid thing.
So then why are you going on about me being unsure about proposition 8? just because im voting for obama means i should like it? Honestly I dont know about prop 8. My gut instinct would be No on proposition 8 because it's religiously fueled and I hate people who burden there religious beliefs upon others.
Other part of me raises concerns about the lack of a father, mother in the relationship for the kid.
Like I said im 50/50 on it. Glad I don't have to vote on that one.
Other part of me raises concerns about the lack of a father, mother in the relationship for the kid.
Like I said im 50/50 on it. Glad I don't have to vote on that one.
In the first place, who says there has to be a kid?
In the second place, are you also in favor of making divorce or single parenting illegal?
In the third place, people are sick and tired of you statists telling everyone else what's good for them and their children.
You can read all my arguments against homo marriage here:
http://www.therxforum.com/showthread.php?t=626161&highlight=california
You may not agree, but at least you'll have the facts.
http://www.therxforum.com/showthread.php?t=626161&highlight=california
You may not agree, but at least you'll have the facts.
A shorter summary of the points:
There is the cost on society position in the secular paper. There are
also these points:
Still, some would argue, since gays will continue adopting, shouldn't we encourage same-sex marriage? Wouldn't this help give children the stability they need? No, because studies by even homosexual researchers reveal that same-sex couples are fundamentally different from their straight counterparts. They are more promiscuous, have greater physical and mental health problems and shorter life expectancies, and the average duration of relationships is woefully short.7
And these differences don't produce a healthy environment in which to raise children.8 Any number of indicators prove this; indeed, they prove that it would be detrimental and possibly even dangerous.9 For instance, the journal Adolescence reported that researchers found a "disproportionate percentage—29 percent—of the adult children of homosexual parents had been specifically subjected to sexual molestation by that homosexual parent, compared to only 0.6 percent of adult children of heterosexual parents having reported sexual relations with their parent.... Having a homosexual parent(s) appears to increase the risk of incest with a parent by a factor of about 50."10
So, while same-sex marriage might promote a particular welfare—that of the couple—it would not promote the general welfare, which arises from raising healthy, balanced children who have all the interior resources necessary to become contributing citizens.
In their book The Male Couple: How Relationships Develop, David McWhirter and Andrew Mattison found that of the 156 couples they studied, 75 percent of the partners learned within five years that for the relationship to survive, cheating had to be tolerated, as long as one or the other did not become emotionally involved with the other sex partner. In her book The Mendola Report, lesbian Mary Mendola conducted a nationwide survey of approximately 400 homosexual couples. She, too, found that homosexuals distinguish between sexual and emotional exclusivity. Indeed, just 26 percent of homosexuals believe commitment is paramount in a marriage-type relationship.
This translates to an almost unfathomable degree of sleeping around. A recent Amsterdam study found that men in homosexual relationships cheat with an average of eight partners a year. Others have found that the average homosexual has between 100 and 500 sexual partners over his or her lifetime. One study showed that 28 percent have had 1,000 or more sex partners, with another study placing the percentage between 10 and 16 percent.
While adultery is certainly a factor in traditional marriages, it is comparatively rare. In fact, studies on matrimony place the male fidelity rate between 75 and 80 percent and that of females between 85 and 90 percent. The reason is simple: Unlike homosexual relationships, emotional and sexual fidelity within matrimony are inexorably linked and always have been by definition. To extend the concept of marriage to a situation wherein fidelity is not the norm would not only cheapen the institution, but it would have disastrous consequences for children. Simply put, a marriage is not a marriage without total exclusivity.
Homosexuals argue that marriage would make their relationships more stable. However, given the runaway promiscuity in this subculture, the assertion is at best unlikely. As UCLA sociologist Anne Peplau notes, "There is clear evidence that gay men are less likely to have sexually exclusive relationships than other people."
Patti Ettelbrick, former legal director of the Lambda Legal Defense and Education Fund, once said, "Being queer is more than setting up house, sleeping with a person of the same gender, and seeking state approval for doing so…. Being queer means pushing the parameters of sex and sexuality, and in the process transforming the very fabric of society."
Michelangelo Signorile, homosexual activist and writer, says the goal of homosexuals is to "fight for same-sex marriage and its benefits and then, once granted, redefine the institution of marriage completely, to demand the right to marry not as a way of adhering to society's moral codes but rather to debunk a myth and radically alter an archaic institution…. The most subversive action lesbians and gay men can undertake…is to transform the notion of 'family' entirely."
There is the cost on society position in the secular paper. There are
also these points:
Still, some would argue, since gays will continue adopting, shouldn't we encourage same-sex marriage? Wouldn't this help give children the stability they need? No, because studies by even homosexual researchers reveal that same-sex couples are fundamentally different from their straight counterparts. They are more promiscuous, have greater physical and mental health problems and shorter life expectancies, and the average duration of relationships is woefully short.7
And these differences don't produce a healthy environment in which to raise children.8 Any number of indicators prove this; indeed, they prove that it would be detrimental and possibly even dangerous.9 For instance, the journal Adolescence reported that researchers found a "disproportionate percentage—29 percent—of the adult children of homosexual parents had been specifically subjected to sexual molestation by that homosexual parent, compared to only 0.6 percent of adult children of heterosexual parents having reported sexual relations with their parent.... Having a homosexual parent(s) appears to increase the risk of incest with a parent by a factor of about 50."10
So, while same-sex marriage might promote a particular welfare—that of the couple—it would not promote the general welfare, which arises from raising healthy, balanced children who have all the interior resources necessary to become contributing citizens.
In their book The Male Couple: How Relationships Develop, David McWhirter and Andrew Mattison found that of the 156 couples they studied, 75 percent of the partners learned within five years that for the relationship to survive, cheating had to be tolerated, as long as one or the other did not become emotionally involved with the other sex partner. In her book The Mendola Report, lesbian Mary Mendola conducted a nationwide survey of approximately 400 homosexual couples. She, too, found that homosexuals distinguish between sexual and emotional exclusivity. Indeed, just 26 percent of homosexuals believe commitment is paramount in a marriage-type relationship.
This translates to an almost unfathomable degree of sleeping around. A recent Amsterdam study found that men in homosexual relationships cheat with an average of eight partners a year. Others have found that the average homosexual has between 100 and 500 sexual partners over his or her lifetime. One study showed that 28 percent have had 1,000 or more sex partners, with another study placing the percentage between 10 and 16 percent.
While adultery is certainly a factor in traditional marriages, it is comparatively rare. In fact, studies on matrimony place the male fidelity rate between 75 and 80 percent and that of females between 85 and 90 percent. The reason is simple: Unlike homosexual relationships, emotional and sexual fidelity within matrimony are inexorably linked and always have been by definition. To extend the concept of marriage to a situation wherein fidelity is not the norm would not only cheapen the institution, but it would have disastrous consequences for children. Simply put, a marriage is not a marriage without total exclusivity.
Homosexuals argue that marriage would make their relationships more stable. However, given the runaway promiscuity in this subculture, the assertion is at best unlikely. As UCLA sociologist Anne Peplau notes, "There is clear evidence that gay men are less likely to have sexually exclusive relationships than other people."
Patti Ettelbrick, former legal director of the Lambda Legal Defense and Education Fund, once said, "Being queer is more than setting up house, sleeping with a person of the same gender, and seeking state approval for doing so…. Being queer means pushing the parameters of sex and sexuality, and in the process transforming the very fabric of society."
Michelangelo Signorile, homosexual activist and writer, says the goal of homosexuals is to "fight for same-sex marriage and its benefits and then, once granted, redefine the institution of marriage completely, to demand the right to marry not as a way of adhering to society's moral codes but rather to debunk a myth and radically alter an archaic institution…. The most subversive action lesbians and gay men can undertake…is to transform the notion of 'family' entirely."
There is also the fact that the majority of Americans
find it disgusting and don't want it.
July 2008 Nationwide Poll
<table class="PollingTable" width="100%" border="0" cellpadding="2" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr><td>American voters oppose same-sex marriage 55 - 36 percent, according to a Quinnipiac University national poll released today. Democrats support same-sex marriage by a narrow 47 - 43 percent margin, while Republicans oppose it 80 - 14 percent and independent voters oppose it 49 - 43 percent.
</td></tr> <tr><td colspan="2"> Women oppose same-sex marriage 51 - 40 percent and men oppose it 61 - 31 percent.
</td></tr> <tr><td colspan="2"> Voters also say 50 - 44 percent that states should not give legal recognition to same-sex marriages performed in other states, the independent Quinnipiac (KWIN-uh-pe-ack) University poll finds. Given three choices, 32 percent of American voters say same-sex couples should be allowed to marry while 33 percent support civil unions for same-sex couples and 29 percent say there should be no legal recognition for same-sex couples. </td></tr></tbody></table>
find it disgusting and don't want it.
July 2008 Nationwide Poll
<table class="PollingTable" width="100%" border="0" cellpadding="2" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr><td>American voters oppose same-sex marriage 55 - 36 percent, according to a Quinnipiac University national poll released today. Democrats support same-sex marriage by a narrow 47 - 43 percent margin, while Republicans oppose it 80 - 14 percent and independent voters oppose it 49 - 43 percent.
</td></tr> <tr><td colspan="2"> Women oppose same-sex marriage 51 - 40 percent and men oppose it 61 - 31 percent.
</td></tr> <tr><td colspan="2"> Voters also say 50 - 44 percent that states should not give legal recognition to same-sex marriages performed in other states, the independent Quinnipiac (KWIN-uh-pe-ack) University poll finds. Given three choices, 32 percent of American voters say same-sex couples should be allowed to marry while 33 percent support civil unions for same-sex couples and 29 percent say there should be no legal recognition for same-sex couples. </td></tr></tbody></table>
hno:
d2, just because I'm an Obama supporter doesn't mean all my beliefs have to be to the left of the aisle. Thats the problem with politics. I cant have opinions on both sides of the aisle. No in between, middle of the road. Either one side or the other.
Me and Zit respectfully disagree on many things. Proposition 8 might be one of the things I agree with him on. Like I said I'm split on it.
Me and Zit respectfully disagree on many things. Proposition 8 might be one of the things I agree with him on. Like I said I'm split on it.
Just wondering....why would homosexuals want marriage? They already have domestic partnerships in California which allow them to file jointly, carry each other on insurance, have access to privacy information and all the other benefits of being married. What is the true benefit of a "marriage" for gays?
