What a HORRIBLY managed 4th quarter by John Fox!!

[TheMDKid]

1. Going for 2 point conversion with 12 minutes left cost Carolina the game. Why does EVERY coach in the NFL make this same stupid mistake?? Simms was absolutely right - you NEVER go for 2 until you HAVE TO.

2. Calling time while driving for the tying score with 1:40 left and on NE's 15 yard line was INSANELY stupid. It just left NE with FAR too much time to drive for the winning FG.

3. Instructing Casey to kick anywhere but straight down the middle was incredibly stupid. Didn't these guys watch the Dallas/NYG game earlier this year on Monday night? Same idiotic mistake was made there.

 

[earl]

YOU ARE CORRECT!!!!!!!!!!! WHY WHY WHY!?!?!?

 

[SunDevil]

Simms is a moron. You go for 2. No question.

 

[earl]

WHAT?! YOU GO FOR 2 WITH 14 MINUTES TO GO IN GAME!?? YOU DO KNOW THE GAME GOES INTO OVERTIME AT 31 ALL WITH NO 2 POINT ATTEMPTS RIGHT?

 

[TheMDKid]

The 2 point conversion was the wrong decision, no ifs, ands, or buts. I don't even want to go into how many times I've seen that decision backfire. However, Fox's WORST decision was calling time on Caro's game tying drive. THEN, to compound the mistake, they ran the hurry-up on the TD pass!! WHY??!! There was freaking 1:08 left in the game and you had 2 timeouts left!! What was the freakin hurry??!!! Just incredibly bad game management. Its a damn shame, too, cause Caro deserved to win that game.

 

[SunDevil]

Sorry, I only judge my decisions based on what's right mathematically, not based on what transpired after the right decision was made - that is up to fate.

 

[TheMDKid]

I'm sorry, I must have missed the math class that said that going for 2 point conversion attempt against the top defense in the NFL with nearly a full quarter remaining to put me down by 3 instead of by 4 was the correct decision. Because any math class worth a crap, would also have you calculate the chances that the leading team would score again in that remaining 12 and 1/2 minutes if you didn't convert. With NE and Brady, I'd say the chances were probably somewhere around 90 to 95%.

 

[lander]

Sims was 100% correct.

I don't like to critize a guy for being overly aggressive - Fox did a hell of a job this year

 

[JohnnyDeMarco]

the difference is NE made its 2 point conversion and Carolina failed twice.

 

[trytrytry]

the MD kid wrote

"too bad Carolina deserved to win that game"


????? on what grounds? just wondering.

 

[mickj]

It was too early, sure it won't be the last time. Great points MDKid.

 

[TheMDKid]

What I'm saying is that if the 4th quarter was properly managed (ie. no 2 point conversion attempts; no timeouts on what would have been the winning, not tying, TD drive; and no aiming ensuing kickoff down the sideline), then Caro could've easily won the game. The players performed well enough to win that game. They deserved better game management from their coach.

 

[wilheim]

I just found out why The Panthers lost. From NFL Forum (Poster named left out on purpose):

They were fuc##ng Robbed!! Thats why!To much yankee blueblood $$..remember how the Kennedy's bought the presidency in 60...same shit!


wil.

 

[Fezzik]

This whole "go for 2, don't go for 2" stuff is idiotic.

Down 5 with 12:00 to go, it's a really, really close call. I'd go for it. Or kick. Whatever. It's like 12 vs. dealer 4. You should stand, but it's no big deal if you hit, it's a minor mistake. Yet, people LOSE THEIR MINDS at the table when you do this (it's actually right when you have a negative count).


And people stand on A6 and no one says a word.

Similarly, Panthers kick the ball out of bounds tied 29-29 and no one notices this g**** incompetence.

 

[mickj]

I'd have to side with MDKid, Fezzik. Too much can happen with 12 minutes left. As it turns out it if they had just taken the point they wouldn't have needed to go for 2 later.

 

[TheMDKid]

My problem with the 2 point conversion is not whether he attempts it or not. My problem is that with nearly every coach in the NFL, the decision to go for 2 is like a no-brainer decision. And by no-brainer, I mean the coach invariably thinks "I don't want to use my brain here and assess the game situation, I just want to look at my chart and see what the chart says to do." It's absolutely maddening to me that these guys are paid millions of dollars a year and can't seem to assess each situation individually without the aid of an assinine chart.

Anyway, enuf about this. Let Carolina fans agonize over what might have been. Time for some shut eye.

 

[DavidMatthews]

I think Fox made the right call going for 2. It would have put them within a FG o tying the game.

I think Carolina made the wrong call on the play. NE did a 2-pointer with a trick play, run up the middle.

I think passing on 2-point conversions is bad. You've got a couple of strong backs in Davis and Foster. Fake a pass and run the QB or the RBs in; you'll get it most of the time.

Personally, I'd like to start seeing 2-pointers early in the game as well. Those points matter.

Offenses should be trained on those plays. I think there will be a coach in the future that will almost always go for 2 ... and will win.

 

[SunDevil]

I've been through this argument too many times in my life and the only thing I've gotten out of it is the fact that no one can convert someone on the other side of the fence to theirs.

I'm just vehemently against anybody using the result of what actually happened after Fox's decision as ground for their argument. Whatever happened after the decision has no bearing on whether it was right AT THE TIME. IF (note the emphasis on IF) Car had converted the 2 and later got a game-tying field goal and won in overtime I don't think people would be in here criticizing the decision.

 

[wilheim]

Very good point Sun Devil - Traditionally in sports it is mandatory to second quess all losers. If the Panthers had won, we would be saying what a moron Bellicheck was to squib kick at the end of the 1st half. Thats just the way it is in sports. How about what a terrific game in which both teams left everything on the field. The real shame is that one of the two had to lose this classic battle.

wil.

 

[SunDevil]

Agreed Wil. Time for me to log off this box and throw in tape 2 of Godfather I. I don't think poor Apollonia will be with us much longer.

Great game. Long day. PanAm saga starts unfolding again bright & early tomorrow. Take it easy Clemenza.