Hey, there's one guy in our country that has spent trillion of tax payer's money, and killed over 3000 peoples just to find and kill one evil guys.
Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that thousand and thousand of innocent civilians and children are also killed and raped during the years too.
Where's the justice for that?
Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that thousand and thousand of innocent civilians and children are also killed and raped during the years too.
Where's the justice for that?
WharfRat said:
LOL....You don't live anywhere near Cap Hill\Downtown do you? I swear that the conspiracy theorists are on a tear down there lately. I'll be the first one to admit that a lot of things that go on smell like bs, but I know a couple people who are so hell bent on the conspiracy theories, you'd think they were whacked out on meth paranoia.
You can't be serious. You really think the Iraqi people had the means to overthrow Sadaam? Are they going to go over and help the Cubans to overthrow Castro the day afterwards?SportSavant said:
Argue what you will about our motives for being there, but freeing innocent people from dictatorship is one huge step forward for the country and in a smaller sense the world.
With great power comes great responsibility, and no country has more than the US. I know it's hard for a lot of people to correlate, but everything that happens over there will indirectly impact us down the line (same goes for Korea, China, and Isreal). 3,000 troops is a drop in the bucket compared to previous wars, and they are heroes for preserving and improving our way of life.
so I guess you are in favor of the American Army going into Cuba to overthrow Castro?
It never ceases to amaze me how when people in the USA (CNN, Fox) talk about this war the only casualties ever quoted are those of American Soldiers. You yourself have just done it. What about the Iraqi civilians killed in this action? both by US military action and now due to the unrest which has been created?
Oh, what about the lives that could have been saved elsewhere with the trillions of dollars that are being spent in Iraq!!!!
uppy: this gives me a good chuckle!!! where is this responsiblity when it comes to protecting people from genoicde and slavery in Africa? does the USA not feel that they at least owe these people a little something after exploiting the continent for centuries? ahhh wait, there is no oil over there.....if you want to talk about responsibilites to other people on this planet, I can list you several countries that need much more help than the people of Iraq needed under Saddam.....
(and please dont tell me he was a thread with WMD)
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sandmanfromlv said:
well, 2 states of the US allow hanging for execution, New Hampshire and Washington. The last hanging took place I believe in 1996, and another guy died in prison b.c he couldn't be hanged (he was too heavy and probably would have been decapitated if they'd tried).
SportSavant said:
This thread makes me a little sad I never talked to you much at any of the RX bashes. In every post I have read of yours in this thread (including ones past the one I quoted) you seem to be very level headed. I agree with a lot of what you are talking about. iraqbodycount . org has the estimate of civilian casualties over 57,000 which has to be verified by 2 different independent sources. The estimates of the real numbers are nearly 5x that. And what you said about letting Iraq overthrow their own government... Its what the US did, and they would have been stronger and more confident for doing so. Either way, we cant take back the past, and its a mess now. Whether you were for or against war, you cant really like how things are going. And I for one worry about my son, and what kind of environment he will have to grow up in the years to come.
SportSavant said:so I guess you are in favor of the American Army going into Cuba to overthrow Castro?
It never ceases to amaze me how when people in the USA (CNN, Fox) talk about this war the only casualties ever quoted are those of American Soldiers. You yourself have just done it. What about the Iraqi civilians killed in this action? both by US military action and now due to the unrest which has been created?
Oh, what about the lives that could have been saved elsewhere with the trillions of dollars that are being spent in Iraq!!!!
if you want to talk about responsibilites to other people on this planet, I can list you several countries that need much more help than the people of Iraq needed under Saddam.....
(and please dont tell me he was a thread with WMD)
Sure something to ponder, thats for sure.
Good point.
<embed style="width: 475px; height: 28px;" class="sIFR-flash" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" sifr="true" bgcolor="transparent" wmode="transparent" flashvars="txt=AN ICONIC MOMENT DESTROYED IN 2:36&textcolor=#2D3E70&hovercolor=#CC0000&linkcolor=#2D3E70&w=475&h=28" quality="best" src="http://onthescene.msnbc.com/baghdad/sifr.swf" height="28" width="475">An iconic moment destroyed in 2:36
<script type="text/javascript"> var sByline = "Richard Engel|NBC News Correspondent|nbc_engel_richard2"; var aByline = sByline.split("|"); document.write("Posted by "+aByline[0]+", "+aByline[1]+" (11:18 am ET, 01/ 2/07)
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<!--Posted: Tuesday, January 2 at 11:18 am CT by petracahill
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Many Iraqis wanted Saddam to be executed in public. Thanks to a single cell phone, they got it.
But three words spoiled the execution the U.S. administration and Iraqi government hoped would be a unifying moment for Iraqis: "Muqtada, Muqtada, Muqtada!"
A guard yelled Muqtada al-Sadr's name at Saddam just moments before he was hanged.
A witness recorded it on a cell phone.
The two minute, thirty-six second video was leaked to the media.
Chance at unity lost
On Tuesday Iraq's chief prosecutor said the only two people with cell phones in the room during the hanging were senior Iraqi officials. Other Iraqi officials say the guards filmed it.
· Al-Sadr is a Shiite cleric who runs one of Iraq’s most violent militias, the Mahdi Army. He is also the son of one of Iraq's most revered Shiite families.
· Saddam executed al-Sadr’s father and uncle.
· The uncle who was killed founded the Dawa party.
· ShiitePrime Minister Nouri al-Maliki is a member of the Dawa party.Al-Sadr’s Mahdi Army is seen as a powerful force behind al-Maliki’s hold on power.
To many in the Middle East who watched the video (it has spread like a pandemic on the Internet and over cell phones), the execution looked like it was more about settling of old scores than delivering justice.
It was a huge missed opportunity.
Most Iraqis truly hated Saddam. His regime massacred thousands of Shiites, Kurds AND Sunnis.
But he died looking brave and dignified. Saddam refused a hood, while his hangmen were masked (wearing a mask is seen as cowardly in Arab culture). Saddam looked calm and composed: his hair freshly dyed, beard trimmed, shoes polished.
His executioners looked more like a reveling lynch mob.
The video of Saddam on the gallows has quickly become one of the iconic images of the war, joining "Shock and Awe," the toppling of the Saddam's statue and the photos of prisoner torture from Abu Ghraib.
It could have been a moment for Iraqis to reflect on their independence, instead it only reminded them of their divisions and the civil war.
'Nothing to do' with it
Al-Sadr's militia blew it… and knows it.
The Mahdi Army acts and then denies. On Tuesday, one of their representatives told us the group had "nothing to do" with the guard who shouted al-Sadr’s name during the execution. And they are covering it up in other ways.
Twice yesterday Shiite militiamen intimidated our crews trying to cover this story. At one point, gunmen demanded that our crew handover an interview with a young man who was proudly distributing the video to his friends on his cell phone.
Militia justice now rules much of the Iraqi streets, and some now claim, militia justice influenced Saddam's execution.
EMAIL THIS
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"); if (aByline[2]) { document.write('
-->
Many Iraqis wanted Saddam to be executed in public. Thanks to a single cell phone, they got it.
But three words spoiled the execution the U.S. administration and Iraqi government hoped would be a unifying moment for Iraqis: "Muqtada, Muqtada, Muqtada!"
A guard yelled Muqtada al-Sadr's name at Saddam just moments before he was hanged.
A witness recorded it on a cell phone.
The two minute, thirty-six second video was leaked to the media.
Chance at unity lost
On Tuesday Iraq's chief prosecutor said the only two people with cell phones in the room during the hanging were senior Iraqi officials. Other Iraqi officials say the guards filmed it.
· Al-Sadr is a Shiite cleric who runs one of Iraq’s most violent militias, the Mahdi Army. He is also the son of one of Iraq's most revered Shiite families.
· Saddam executed al-Sadr’s father and uncle.
· The uncle who was killed founded the Dawa party.
· ShiitePrime Minister Nouri al-Maliki is a member of the Dawa party.Al-Sadr’s Mahdi Army is seen as a powerful force behind al-Maliki’s hold on power.
To many in the Middle East who watched the video (it has spread like a pandemic on the Internet and over cell phones), the execution looked like it was more about settling of old scores than delivering justice.
It was a huge missed opportunity.
Most Iraqis truly hated Saddam. His regime massacred thousands of Shiites, Kurds AND Sunnis.
But he died looking brave and dignified. Saddam refused a hood, while his hangmen were masked (wearing a mask is seen as cowardly in Arab culture). Saddam looked calm and composed: his hair freshly dyed, beard trimmed, shoes polished.
His executioners looked more like a reveling lynch mob.
The video of Saddam on the gallows has quickly become one of the iconic images of the war, joining "Shock and Awe," the toppling of the Saddam's statue and the photos of prisoner torture from Abu Ghraib.
It could have been a moment for Iraqis to reflect on their independence, instead it only reminded them of their divisions and the civil war.
'Nothing to do' with it
Al-Sadr's militia blew it… and knows it.
The Mahdi Army acts and then denies. On Tuesday, one of their representatives told us the group had "nothing to do" with the guard who shouted al-Sadr’s name during the execution. And they are covering it up in other ways.
Twice yesterday Shiite militiamen intimidated our crews trying to cover this story. At one point, gunmen demanded that our crew handover an interview with a young man who was proudly distributing the video to his friends on his cell phone.
Militia justice now rules much of the Iraqi streets, and some now claim, militia justice influenced Saddam's execution.
