U.S. Legislation -- What does the RX suggest we do?

[VegasPlayer777]

The law we need to be concerned about is if they criminilize the act of placing a bet.

If the US government decided to spend $100 Billion dollars, they might be able to block 25% of online gambling.

-Sean

I agree, Sean. I guess my point is, if this first piece of legislation passes where will it end? Frist and Frist clones are obviously nuts and will press this beyond all reason and ahead of much more important issues. Oh well, as I have said before, the Rx has a great number of very intelligent people. Together, we will find a way.

 

[wolfie_cr]

Depending on the size of the bank the wire goes through (or not) an intermediary banks

The wire instructions for CR biggest banks are straight through however medium/small banks do use an intermediary which depends on where the money is coming from, if the money is being sent from the US the intermediary can be BOA, Wachovia, Citbank etc which are obviously US banks themselves

I have received wires through/without an intermediary bank, this is mostly a logistics issue not that they are intentionally hiding anything, when you fill the wire form at the originating bank (your bank for example in the US) its clear that you specify intermdiary and final destination banks, they (the US bank) really knows where the money is going.

Normally a book will NOT have its main banking facility in CR because CR does have income tax (as opposed to other legislations such as Curacao/Antigua/Grand Cayman that are on the list of 'tax heavens' )

Most (decent) gaming operations only have a small banking facility here for day-to-day operations (payroll/operational expenses etc)

I tried to find the actual list of countries that are forbidden to have commerce with the US

I found the FATF NCCC list but that is different as its mostly related to money laundering

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NCCT

 

[Sugarbear]

Go Sean Go. Break it down.

 

[Sugarbear]

Lets start from the top, shall we.

Nobody is going to do anything but the same ole, same ole. A law in place will stop no one and they have nothing in place to stop anyone from doing anything. It will take years to implement the first law.

Nothing is going to change. Things dont happen over night and after the inital panic, no one is going anywhere.


See my comments and then absorb what Brother Sean said, because he laid it down.

 

[Sugarbear]

The first law is the banking law and the key one. They are making a law to block tranactions on a system that does not have the frst thing in place to be able to do so. So, the first thing they have to do is redesign the system so it can catch transactions that the goverment does not want its people to make.



Also, there are no criminal penalties if caught letting unapproved transaction thru. Its just a law that says stop this from happening, try your best. In addition, the law makes banks in the US responsible for knowing where the money went at all times. I.E. from the US to Neteller, Netteller to your SB account and then to where ever the place of buisness
you play at banks. US banks are responsible for stopping the tranactions any point in the chain.


Who is going to lead this program? What kind of paperwork will it take to prove compliance? Who is drawing up this paperwork and who is making the rules of audit that go with it.



The US expects these banks to just do this at a drop of a hat also. Like they know all the offshore places and how everything works and can stop it nest se' pas. Its what the gov has the public at large believeing.


Its a law that has no teeth and will stop no one. In addition if they do arrest a banker or two, the system collaspes in a hurry due to simple paranoia and being afraid I am next.


Fishhead, if you remember the early 6A days and how unorganized it was and how clueless the people they deputized to adminster it were, then you understand where I am coming from. A deputization that just came to an end here because REG 6A is off the books here now.


That was just Vegas, with a ton of Feds plus other support in the background, to help try to implement it, and work thru the different problems that came up. In a small town at the time, with not even a third of whats out there today to train.


You know how hard it is just to keep your employees up to speed on things and trained correctly, can you imagine over 5000 banks in this country and all it personel including support staff trying to police this stuff.


NEVER.

This could cost the religious right the election. If this passes look for bank CEO's to resign as well as a number of the intitutions coming out saying, we can not enforce this law, we will not enforce this law.


This Law could become the laughing stock of the nation fast. Wait till the poker players find out what happened.


Its far from over folks.

 

[Sugarbear]

Go Sean Go.

If this law passes, here is what will change:

Now, I can walk into my bank and say wire XXX amount to ibetsportsandthegovernmenthatesit.com

If the law passes, I will have to say to my bank wire XXX amount to account 123353554 at Bank of Caracao. Thanks.

The law is a complete joke. I spoke to a reasonably high up exec at National City and she told me there is absolutely no way they can enforce it. As of now, there are 12 countries the US does not want people to wire funds to and this is why if we want to wire to Costa Rica, we use an intermediate like England. She told me there is absolutely no way they can decide where money goes once it gets to England and further it would break international banking laws if a bank here tried to tell a bank elsewhere what to do with funds.

The US could block banks from wiring money to a middle bank if a final destination is a country on a list, but with sportsbooks in 100+ countries (And they will move to do business (BOS had offices in Antigua just to pick up cash since CR is already on the list)) blocking every country with sportsbook would anihilate global commerce.

That being said, there may be a small run on some books as people panic so I would try not to have significant balances in books that may or may not be financial in great shape.

Sean

HERE IS THE TRUTH. STOP PANICING.

 

[Sugarbear]

No problem, Fish and Dante. The main problem in the society today is that people feel it will end the very next day, if the laws passed. Most will run scared thinking the Feds are coming to get them, instead of the forgiegn citizens they have been kidnapping and holding political hostage.


It is a ton more likely the Feds will be going after Microsoft to achive there goals. Its illegal in Washington St to recieve and or transmit gambling information. This makes Bill Gates a contributer to illegal gambling enterprises. When Washington St starts going after the bettors there, they will charge Gates with all kinds of things and try to force him to disable links to gambling sites. Of course he will not be able to just limit it to Washington St and with the Feds backing them, it could get dicey.


Dont worry though. I have answers as to what to do if it comes down to it.

Just go back to dial up and route thru any foriegn country. Like .UK or .Ca
etc. Easy as pie.

This is where the law is headed. They wont make it, but before a defense can mount, the gov will start with the terroist tatics.




Make sure you come back and read all this, anytime you have questions.



IT WILL TAKE YEARS AND BY THAT TIME IT WILL BE WAY TO LATE.

 

[Domer]

There is a reason Bill built Microsoft 10 miles from Canada.

For years and years, he paid his employees extra to live in Canada.

He did this because of monopoly concerns, but if they go after Bill and Microsoft and tell Bill to regulate the internet, it would not be surprising to see Microsoft head north.

Sean

Alright don't want to derail this thread, but you just completely made all of that up.

 

[VIEJODINOSAUR]

SugarBear.....I always said that you are alot smarter than you look...LOL!!!
Seriously, words of wisdom from you that should not be ignored...thanks for the informative posts.

 

[Wynn]

Here comes Mr. Frist to the podium...:finger:

 

[Domer]

Here comes Mr. Frist to the podium...:finger:

It's already been passed...

 

[Wynn]

It's already been passed...

No, HR 4954 has not passed the Senate yet. It is about to be though.

 

[Wynn]

Well, I stand corrected. The narrator on C-SPAN2 just stated that the Port Security bill is on its way to the White House. I listened all evening and never heard it.

Makes you wonder if Frist's attempt to attach it to the defense authorization bill wasn't a smoke screen all along and the prick knew he could attach it to port security.

I hate politics and what it turns people into.


I'm out (for the night).

 

[MJWSports]

Just remember if use Neteller Debit card that it is linked to Omni Bank, which is in New Orleans, Neteller pays them they pay u... So that would probably be the first thing to go...
:cryingcry

 

[jwblue]

Also, I haven't figured out exactly what we will do if eventually ISP's are forced to block internet access to books. That will be a real problem for the average players. Just my two cents.

Good point. It can be done. In some regards, people are UNDERestimating the impact of this law passing.

Time to move to Canada!



:nopityA:

 

[Sugarbear]

SugarBear.....I always said that you are alot smarter than you look...LOL!!!
Seriously, words of wisdom from you that should not be ignored...thanks for the informative posts.

Thanks VD. Exciting changes in the industry add fuel to that wisdom.

 

[sean1]

Passing the law and enforcing the law are two very different things.

Frist was the motivator behind passing this thing - he is not the enforcer.

Who is gonna be the enforcer that is gonna spend billions upon billions to make this work?

Sean

 

[TheWolf]

They Should Just Rip Up The Constitution.

 

[919]

They Should Just Rip Up The Constitution.

They're working on it.

 

[Sugarbear]

Here are some insightful updates.

Unfortunately HR 4954 has passed the House and Senate and is now on the way to the President's desk.

The bill stipulates that within nine months of enactment, the Treasury Department and the Federal Reserve would create measures and procedures that would show banks how to identify and stop transactions. After the rules are created, financial institutions would be barred from processing credit cards and electronic tapes.






Someone's analysis of the rules of the bill:

http://www.rules.house.gov/109...r/hr49543_portscr.pdf

1. No revision to Wire act. This is important.

2. Its illegal to accept bets over the internet. So nothing changes, except gambling CEOs won't change planes in US (until after WTO gets involved).

3. Illegal for other (betting business guys) end to accept $ through credit cards, transfer etc etc. Banks join some vague program to try and help this.


Catch is that Neteller, Firepay etc are *exempt* because they are not in the business of of accepting bets [so a BEEG loophole].



4. (vague) ISPs must remove links to gambling sites, but they're not required to actively pursue links.

Look for a campaign of fear and imtimadation coming up. Just go back to dial up and route thru a foriegn provider. Nothing they can do.



5. some bogus cooperation crap with foreign governments to prevent money
laundering [LOL, no one is going to help the US much any more]

---------------------------------------------------

Some specifics:

1. Its not illegal for individuals to place bets over the internet


2. Its not illegal to receive money from gambling sites


3. It doesn't say advertising of gambling is illegal


His conclusion: toothless legislation.




I couldn't agree more. Bet on my brother and sisters.