Jazz you keep saying Saddam threatens the stability of that region as the reason for war. Please show some proof of this. You and I both know that other than Kuwait none of his neighbours is on the U.S. side. So doesn't this arguement look full of holes. To claim a drone is capable of distribution chemical weapons that's made out of wood and duct tape is insane. Yet that seems proof enough for guys like you. Why don't you just say you found a can of insect reppelent in an Iraqi's summer cottage and whipe them out on this claim.
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The Religious Right & Their Thought Process
- Thread starter Payton
- Start date
Grantt: uh, the proof for threatening the stability of the region - did I read your question right? Is that what you actually said?
Hmmm. Um, let's see, attacking Iran in a war the US backed him in because of the standing of Iran at the time (see, it's like Germany is our pal now, though they were our enemy in WWII), then attacking the Kurds, then attacking Kuwait and overrunning it, then launching Scuds into Saudi Arabia and Israel, then enslaving his people, then violating 17 or 18 UN resolutions to disarm despite his agreement to do so and instead continuing to develop banned missiles, then diverting a major portion of the 'money for oil' to weapons development and his forces instead of the people who needed it, then refusing to disarm himself of the weapons the UN itself KNOWS he has by their OWN accounting, for the only possible reason that he wants to keep them to maintain power, power to use ... oh yeah, Grantt, you're so right, he doesn't threaten the stability of that region at all.
I haven't seen the drone myself, but it apparently flew 310 miles - balsa wood? Well that's good news - naturally, you should fixate and harp on that one if it makes you feel good, so it helps you to ignore all of the shit Saddam still has and refuses to give up.
I notice you aren't laughing about the cluster bombs recently discovered that the Iraqis themselves surprised everyone in admitting that yes, they could be used for chemical and biological weapons loads, itself an understatement because you wouldn't drill big holes in the submunitions and not encase them in rubber if they were meant for CONVENTIONAL explosives.
You've got an agenda, Grantt, one which requires you to look past the truth. I'm not saying that because you're against war now, but it's based on all of your postings - you're rabid, it seems, as if no fact should intrude on your reverie for Uncle Saddam.
Too bad. If we do go to war, I'm 1000% behind the troops and the President. I hope they pound the crap as quickly as possible out of the real danger (the Republican Guard) and kill Saddam, and remove his regime from power. I hope they stay there long enough to help the poor bastards get back on their feet and put in a government that doesn't torture, kill and silence its citizens as a matter of civil policy. And I hope to God that if this happens that Iraqis come forth and tell what has been going on, so that you may read it and realize that sometimes, SOMETIMES war is necessary.
Hmmm. Um, let's see, attacking Iran in a war the US backed him in because of the standing of Iran at the time (see, it's like Germany is our pal now, though they were our enemy in WWII), then attacking the Kurds, then attacking Kuwait and overrunning it, then launching Scuds into Saudi Arabia and Israel, then enslaving his people, then violating 17 or 18 UN resolutions to disarm despite his agreement to do so and instead continuing to develop banned missiles, then diverting a major portion of the 'money for oil' to weapons development and his forces instead of the people who needed it, then refusing to disarm himself of the weapons the UN itself KNOWS he has by their OWN accounting, for the only possible reason that he wants to keep them to maintain power, power to use ... oh yeah, Grantt, you're so right, he doesn't threaten the stability of that region at all.
I haven't seen the drone myself, but it apparently flew 310 miles - balsa wood? Well that's good news - naturally, you should fixate and harp on that one if it makes you feel good, so it helps you to ignore all of the shit Saddam still has and refuses to give up.
I notice you aren't laughing about the cluster bombs recently discovered that the Iraqis themselves surprised everyone in admitting that yes, they could be used for chemical and biological weapons loads, itself an understatement because you wouldn't drill big holes in the submunitions and not encase them in rubber if they were meant for CONVENTIONAL explosives.
You've got an agenda, Grantt, one which requires you to look past the truth. I'm not saying that because you're against war now, but it's based on all of your postings - you're rabid, it seems, as if no fact should intrude on your reverie for Uncle Saddam.
Too bad. If we do go to war, I'm 1000% behind the troops and the President. I hope they pound the crap as quickly as possible out of the real danger (the Republican Guard) and kill Saddam, and remove his regime from power. I hope they stay there long enough to help the poor bastards get back on their feet and put in a government that doesn't torture, kill and silence its citizens as a matter of civil policy. And I hope to God that if this happens that Iraqis come forth and tell what has been going on, so that you may read it and realize that sometimes, SOMETIMES war is necessary.
You & I agree on the Bush Team vs Iraq for the most part. I am however interested in your remark and I`m paraphrasing here "no doubt Bush handled 9/11 better than Gore would have". I am NOT a Gore admirer. But for the last 18 mos. the mantra of Bush`s "heroic" actions after 9/11 have been universally accepted. WHY? What exactly did Bush do that ANY other American would not have done? The only thing peculiar to him is the rhetoric attached to any pol. Giving him all this credit for unprecidented action is unwarranted!
How many freaking times does it have to be stated that the U.S. could take all the oil it freaking needed if it wanted to way before now?
Jazz, I think you're giving the US too much credit here. Diplomatically and militarily, we would/could never do this without provocation.
We have that now.
Jazz, I think you're giving the US too much credit here. Diplomatically and militarily, we would/could never do this without provocation.
We have that now.
"But for the last 18 mos. the mantra of Bush`s "heroic" actions after 9/11 have been universally accepted. WHY? What exactly did Bush do that ANY other American would not have done? The only thing peculiar to him is the rhetoric attached to any pol. Giving him all this credit for unprecidented action is unwarranted!"
Silver, I didn't say that Bush was heroic. Much like Rudy Guilini he simply did his job. I think Bush emits a much stronger persona than Gore & in the moments after 9/11 IMO this strength helped give grieving/scared Americans the strength they needed.
I do feel he initially handled the situation quite well, and he handled Afghanistan as expected, but enough is enough ... 9/11 is 9/11 - tragic, unforgiving, & amongst the darkest days in American history BUT IT IS NOT AN EXCUSE FOR "PREVENTIVE" WAR, IT IS NOT AN EXCUSE TO MURDER.
In a nutshell, I was praising his action in the moments, days & weeks after 9/11. Since then, he has done little to help America.
Silver, I didn't say that Bush was heroic. Much like Rudy Guilini he simply did his job. I think Bush emits a much stronger persona than Gore & in the moments after 9/11 IMO this strength helped give grieving/scared Americans the strength they needed.
I do feel he initially handled the situation quite well, and he handled Afghanistan as expected, but enough is enough ... 9/11 is 9/11 - tragic, unforgiving, & amongst the darkest days in American history BUT IT IS NOT AN EXCUSE FOR "PREVENTIVE" WAR, IT IS NOT AN EXCUSE TO MURDER.
In a nutshell, I was praising his action in the moments, days & weeks after 9/11. Since then, he has done little to help America.
Lander your point is acknowledged. Maybe his aura did inspire more confidence in some people than Gore`s would have, not hard to do BTW. At any rate other than shake his fist and do the obvious which was go after OBL, that was pretty much it. As far as what has happened since, a total fiasco. I wonder if these RWZ`s can see past their noses and realize the enormous economic disaster that awaits us? Who the hell ever heard of CUTTING taxes when on the verge of war? Unprecidented and imbecilic! The trickle down effect on the country re. gas & oil costs will be catastrophic. When they prefice every description of DUBYA with "he`s not a deep thinker", that says it all. God help us, because we`ll need it.
Jazz you wrote "I haven't seen the drone myself, but it apparently flew 310 miles - balsa wood? Well that's good news - naturally, you should fixate and harp on that one if it makes you feel good, so it helps you to ignore all of the shit Saddam still has and refuses to give up."
Harping on it I mentioned it once. Your exaggerations are as bad as Bush's get real or don't bother responding to my facts pal. Your B.S. and nut bar antics are wasted on me.
Jazz I have no doubt you are going to stand behind the military action (about 3000 miles behind I’m betting)
I’m sure all the Iraqis will come forward just like all the Afghans, Panamanian, Vietnamese and Somalis praise you for the bombing and slaughter the U.S. has carried out in their countries.
Jazz you wrote "I haven't seen the drone myself, but it apparently flew 310 miles - balsa wood? Well that's good news - naturally, you should fixate and harp on that one if it makes you feel good, so it helps you to ignore all of the shit Saddam still has and refuses to give up."
Harping on it I mentioned it once. Your exagerations are as bad as Bush's get real or don't bother responding to my facts pal.
I'm not sure I understand your point Jazz. Iraq has done what to the U.S. You mentioned 3 other countries that Iraq has had a confrontation with but not the U.S.??
Also if you believe Iraq should be leveled for having confrontations with 3 other counties. I can't even imagine what you would wish for a country that has had a confrontation with 10 times this many countries. ( I suppose all those incedents where ok in your book) I would just like to see a peaceful solution which France, Canada and a growing percentage of the world wants also. I'm guessing you have never been to a 3rd world country before. Right. Then come back here and comment. What do you live in a white middle class neighbourhood? Your jaded sorry about the tough talk but I'm sure a blood thirsty war mongor like youy can handle it.
[This message was edited by Grantt on 03-14-03 at 01:34 AM.]
[This message was edited by Grantt on 03-14-03 at 01:39 AM.]
Harping on it I mentioned it once. Your exaggerations are as bad as Bush's get real or don't bother responding to my facts pal. Your B.S. and nut bar antics are wasted on me.
Jazz I have no doubt you are going to stand behind the military action (about 3000 miles behind I’m betting)
I’m sure all the Iraqis will come forward just like all the Afghans, Panamanian, Vietnamese and Somalis praise you for the bombing and slaughter the U.S. has carried out in their countries.
Jazz you wrote "I haven't seen the drone myself, but it apparently flew 310 miles - balsa wood? Well that's good news - naturally, you should fixate and harp on that one if it makes you feel good, so it helps you to ignore all of the shit Saddam still has and refuses to give up."
Harping on it I mentioned it once. Your exagerations are as bad as Bush's get real or don't bother responding to my facts pal.
I'm not sure I understand your point Jazz. Iraq has done what to the U.S. You mentioned 3 other countries that Iraq has had a confrontation with but not the U.S.??
Also if you believe Iraq should be leveled for having confrontations with 3 other counties. I can't even imagine what you would wish for a country that has had a confrontation with 10 times this many countries. ( I suppose all those incedents where ok in your book) I would just like to see a peaceful solution which France, Canada and a growing percentage of the world wants also. I'm guessing you have never been to a 3rd world country before. Right. Then come back here and comment. What do you live in a white middle class neighbourhood? Your jaded sorry about the tough talk but I'm sure a blood thirsty war mongor like youy can handle it.
[This message was edited by Grantt on 03-14-03 at 01:34 AM.]
[This message was edited by Grantt on 03-14-03 at 01:39 AM.]
